Go George Bush...military hand to hand [Archive]

Stacey

05-13-2002, 08:44 PM

My childhood friend whom I grew up in Karate with came back from Afganistan. He was the gunner on the back of a truck. He had dreams of man to man hand to hand combat. Much like saving private ryan. He was a born leader. Well this is military hand to hand combat.

You face many small armies. Men in the back, women and children in the front, unarmed. You shoot first through the seven year olds, the babies in mother's arms. Then you mow down the men. In the end you have a massive grave to dig. Isn't it great killing people to keep the price of oil down.

Suppose for a minute that after getting inagurated, Bush simply pulled the troops out of Afganistan? None of this would have happened. How would you react to Afgani troops stationed at Mr. Rushmore or the Lincoln Memorial?

My friend took a dark road when he was 16, sold drugs, killed people..Yes killed people. Other drug dealers and bums. This whole war thing has turned him around. He wants to get into UN peacekeeping because he understands first hand what war is.

Do you understand? You who vote republican? I'm doing a term paper right now on Christian-Islamic conflicts. Every new pope was questioned and had oposition and a favorite political strategy was to start a crusade. Funny that we are doing the same thing today. This orientalsim is stupid and moronic. If a thug can figure it out, can't you?

joedoe

05-13-2002, 09:03 PM

Can o worms, can o worms.

Let the flaming begin.

[Edit] Oh, and just so I can be the first, you are an unpatriotic traitor and you should be shot :D

rogue

05-13-2002, 09:05 PM

What outfit and what is his MOS? What war?

Stacey

05-13-2002, 09:17 PM

I don't know, I'm not a letherneck. He's a marine. I kinda lost contact with him when he began selling drugs and killing people. Our mothers have continued to be close friends over the years, otherwise I would have no contact with him. He slipped into barbarism and fit into the Marines perfectly.

Can of worms or not, someone who enjoyed killing people and streetfighting is suddenly sobered up after all the killing. Its too bad we can't see dying children when we vote in the election box. Because his evil was the extension of how America voted....or didn't vote...the electoral process is evidently obselete. America is run on the Golden rule...whoever has the gold....rules.

I think he's in Georgia now. Thats all I know.

I invite and challenge you all to read, From the Rising of the Sun by Brandon H. Beck and Orientalism by Edward Said.

What we are doing is nothing new, its just that America is a continuation of British Imperialsm and the papacy of Rome. Sept 11th was like the fall of Constantinople.

How can we talk about serbs and croatians killing each other as a stupid old feud when we do the same thing, we just have better speech writers.

wushu chik

05-13-2002, 09:26 PM

Everyone knows how I feel about Stacey...and the absurd crap he posts.....especially about shooting 7 year olds and newborns....

Stacey the ONLY person I would totally ENJOY killing would be YOU! I think it's time the world rids itself of scum like you.

~Wen~

Maestro1700

05-13-2002, 09:34 PM

well he said afgani a buncha times so i figure hes talking about afganistan

i dunno about mowing down women and children..from what i saw on the news i just saw clips of people running around in the dark calling them special ops etc

and the rest were marines and other people handing out rations to the afganis..

but i seriously doubt that..its not impossible i just doubt it...

and what oil? that was the gulf war this isnt even a war really its a "war" against terrorisim

some innocent people get in the way but it happens..i seriously doubt the mowing down women and children though

i wouldnt call your friend a thug either stacey, just because he killed bums..in new jersey..and other drug dealers, then he goes over to afganistan supposedly kills women and children and all of a sudden hes awakened to the truth that killing is bad? what was he hoped up everytime he shot a bum?

i understand his motives are noble..but imo peacekeeping..real peace like..uniting all nations is a waste of time(dont forget to read the Imo before i wrote that people) because..people are to different you can never have all good and no bad its impossible..yep impossible but if he means peacekeeping by just keeping the peace like police officers are Supposed to do then yea thats a good idea..its what the UN does or tries to do anyway

but even though this is off the subject of MA..good post i guess?

geez you guys posted fast gonna write a few more responces now...

stacey the only thing we have in common with the roman empire and britain is that we are powerful, there was a saying..the sun never sets on the british empire..well it sets on the U.S. and we arent an empire..rome ruled for a 1000 years but they also contributed greatly to the advancement of the world as a whole..so yea..

America is the greatest nation in the world stacey..if you dont like it i suggest you leave, try afganistan.

respectmankind

05-13-2002, 09:34 PM

i am not patriotic, and i do not hold the constitution in place of mu mind or faith, nor do i replace my mind with my faith. now with that said, a) stacey, your nice little paper on comparison isn't going to give you any answers, b) everyone going to dog on stacey, shut up.

Lice

05-13-2002, 09:54 PM

What you smokin'?

There was no US presence in Afghanistan when Bush was inaugarated. There's no oil in Afghanistan. Maybe you mean Iraq? But even then, your 'facts' would be way off. The rest of your post was just ranty ramblings.

All your post did was give ammunition towards the very people you're trying to fight against.

Respectfully.

Royal Dragon

05-13-2002, 09:56 PM

Are you saying we are in this mess because Bush is in Office? I mean that's the impression I got from the jibberish you posted. I don't think we had troops in Afganistan prior to war being declared on us, did we? Am I missing something?

wushu chik

05-13-2002, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by respectmankind
everyone going to dog on stacey, shut up. [/B]

I will not shut up. For the simple fact that this little worm comes on here and runs his mouth about **** he doesn't have the slightest bit of information on. He's a little zit on the face of humanity, and I really truely think HE should be on the front lines instead of babbling about crap. And, you for sticking up for him..should be there right along with him!

~Wen~

Stacey

05-13-2002, 10:06 PM

I have a deep love for our country, and a hate for the kind of blind patriotism that allowed Hitler.

I do beleive that the West is a continuation of Rome and European imperialism. We do it to secure our economic interests. In the beggining of US history it didn't, but after WWII, the US sided with Israel, leaving the Islamic nations feeling betrayed. The US is an extension of britains former power and carries with it the latent and manifest orientalism in its culture. From the early 1900's there were pamphets on the "barbarian nations of mohomet" We carry this history as a Christian/ Roman Catholic nation. Orientalist travel literature was abundant and we only saw the East in several reoccuring themes of lust and savagery. Veiled women who needed penetration and the terrible turk who is hot blooded, lustfull and ready to kill for allah. Stuff of the past...yeah right.

No the troops were there before, but suppose we had simply removed them...none of this would have happened..we thought we could bully them and cried when we got hit.

George Bush is using Papal tactics. A good crusade will clear everything up. Increase aproval ratings.

when constantinople fell, the entiredy of Christendom mourned and prayed for the martrys, then there was a huge anti "turk" backlash. Now when we were hit, Europe mourned again.

Its pathetic that this cycle continues now..we had the Rennasaince and the Enlightenment....for what? The wheel of samsara keeps spinning and we are going no where.

Wushu Chick- You have the nationalistic mentality that the Nazi's thrived on. You hate me, thats fine, do it for a good reason though. Not simply because I make you think, causing your little head to hurt.

respectmankind

05-13-2002, 10:27 PM

wushu, go worship your constitution. if you had read, i told stacey off, but you being a moron could not seem to realise that. and when i said dog, i ment anyone who is going to just rag on stacey without giving information and logic. now how does my retard impression go for wushu... hmmm. 'my name is wushu, i am special girl who rides a special bus. my mom tells me to appologising for being the way i am. but she will be proud of me when i am in the special olympics, and i get the gold metal.'

Maestro1700

05-13-2002, 10:40 PM

ok for one thing stacey..its my oppinion..and kind of a fact that no the U.S. isnt like britain or rome..because of its economic interests? sorry bro but economic interests are worldwide, for one thing who did the U.S. ever conquer? when did we rape,pillage other nations for decades..even centuries?

sorry to tell you this...but there is a big difference between the U.S.A and its economic interests(which benefit the whole world not just the U.S.) and the roman empire or the British empire..people fighting other people for one reason or anything wether it be economy..religion or just hate has been going on Forever and everywhere..europe..religous battles..terriotorial battles etc

spain and other europeans pillageing south and north america

mongolians, manchurians taking over/occupying china..along with the japanese

the soviet union..vietnam..korea bla bla bla

it goes on and on people will always fight, and just because the U.S. seems to be in alot of fights doesnt mean we resemble or are reliving the roman empire and its motives or the british empire etc

but you have your oppinions and i can understand what your saying..just i dont agree..lets get off the slandering and child killing topics though

anton

05-13-2002, 10:54 PM

I do see the strategic importance of Afghanistan in terms of Caspian oil transportation etc... (heck the russians have been tryin to get a piece of Afghanistan for nearly a century). And I do think that Bush was just waiting for an opportunity to jump in there... but that's nothing new - wars always get fought for a reason (and nine times out of ten justice or freedom or ideals have nothing to do with it)... also I have trouble believing that anyone is deliberately targetting newborn children.
Its reality, face it! As long as the world is populated by people, and as long as resources remain scarce someone will be killing someone else. If things were different, Communism would work. :D

wushu chik

05-13-2002, 10:55 PM

Keep your retard impressions for your family members dear! That's where they belong. And, if that's what you consider telling someone off...you had better go back to school. And if that's what you meant about "dogging" stacey...you should have said it clearer...because YOU were the one that sounded like an absolute idiot! But, what else would I expect from the likes of you!!!

~Wen~

P.S. As for worshiping my constitution, I never said anything about our government being right or wrong. I don't agree with a LOT of stuff they do, but I also don't agree with ****!NG IDIOTS like Stacey talking about shooting little kids for OIL. WTF does that have ANYTHING to do with this "war"?

diego

05-13-2002, 10:55 PM

Well to your first part according to Canadian History Books the great american demon pilferred the AFRIKANS and made them build, while they made the indians move over Also i supposse you could say our great forefathers sorta pimped the chinese like nike do the phillipinnes!.

Hit it Maestro

Shadow Dragon

05-13-2002, 10:57 PM

Yeah, the next Wars will be waged over a resource more precious than Oil, Gold or anything that we have seen so far.

Can you guess what it will be:

WATER

This is also one of the reson why the West bank and Gaza Strip are so heavy fought over. Guess who controls the Water there?? Nope, it ain't the palestinians.

Peace.

respectmankind

05-13-2002, 11:08 PM

wushu, if you don't understand what dogging on means, then i shall give you another impression. and my family is non existent. 'my name is wushu, my momma calls me a waste of her diaphram, it hurts me, just like the kids do when i ride my special bus'. i am not trying to be mature with that statement and you assuming so was a mistake. now, as far as going back to school, i am not worshipping a piece of paper, or a country founded by people hundreds of years ago. progession, learn the word. now i need to do another impression just to feed my own ego and immature side. 'my name is wushu, i like french fries, and i get free french fries because i work at mcdonalds, at mcdonalds, i get to play with hot oil, it hurts when my bos teaches me a lesson by burning me, but she says it is okay because everyone does it.'

dnc101

05-13-2002, 11:09 PM

Is this the same Stacey who, in another post, was sniveling because you don't like your heritage? Scotch Irish, I believe, and you thought them to be barbarians and drunkards- and you were really irate that you inherited fair skin from them. I'd say you just like to snivel, but I think it goes deeper than that. You should first go to your dictionary and research the word xenocentrism. Then seek professional help.

(Gotta like that wushuchick)

wushu chik

05-13-2002, 11:18 PM

Respectmankind...
You are as big an idiot as Stacey. Both of you don't have any social skills...nor do you have any grasp on reality. I completely understand what dogging on means...i think you perhaps, don't! And, those analogies are about ****ing retarded as well! But, again, I would expect nothing more from you! Little boys should be monitered on the computer by their parents...or they get themselves into trouble!!!

DNC101~ You crack me up~~

~Wen~

respectmankind

05-13-2002, 11:26 PM

first off, this is my face caring. second, reality? hahaha... i never agreed with her, i just saw morons like you jumping in there and being you. Third, Annologies? WTH is wrong with you. Impression, joke, haha. If it was an annalogy i would likely be trying to teach you something child. want to see my face caring? here it is. wait, miss it, here it is again. did i once say i gave a crap about being mature. wait, here is the face again. miss it? it is because i have no caring face.

Shadow Dragon

05-13-2002, 11:28 PM

Aaah, gotta love the teenagers and their grant ideas..

wushu chik

05-13-2002, 11:34 PM

Wow RMK...there's your first problem...thinking Stacey is a SHE!! HA HA...

~Wen~

anton

05-13-2002, 11:36 PM

Now come on kiddies can't we all just play nice? :( :)

respectmankind

05-13-2002, 11:37 PM

shadow, god bless you for having a brain and understanding i am being a ass. atleast now, before i was trying to stop the great satan known as wushu. anyways wushu, i know stacey is a guy, but when i am typing i get it all gayed up because of the name. i bet you liked my caring face to.

Shadow Dragon

05-13-2002, 11:40 PM

RMK.

Whatever. I am just here for the entertainment value.

And the show is good.
:p

wushu chik

05-13-2002, 11:42 PM

:rolleyes:
NICE EXCUSE!
~Wen~

respectmankind

05-13-2002, 11:48 PM

lol, i think so. :o , you caught me, i didn't know stacey was a guy even though it was a slight part of discussion on some thread awhile back. meh, anywho, i am getting off my high so i submit to your wisdom and understanding of what i said and believe in. but seriously, it was fun while it lasted. maybe we can do it again friday.

Shadow Dragon

05-14-2002, 12:49 AM

Reminds me of the one Article I read about the Villages around Tora Bora.

US troops promised a lot of things to the locals in exchange for their Help.

After Tora Bora was over Troops pulled out, no assistance and not even 1 promise was fulfilled.

But the locals lost a few people, had their houses damaged, etc.

I guess the current teenage population will be willing supporters of the USA when they grow up.
Just some facts about what really goes on over there.

Peace.

scotty1

05-14-2002, 01:16 AM

On first impressions I think Wall is correct. Very correct in fact.

You know its funny, but I think Staey writes in a purposefully inflammatory way, to draw a certain type of person out, and its working on Wushuchik.

Stacey's original post was obviously intended to rile people up, but it did contain a couple of valid points. Which were responded to with

"Stacey the ONLY person I would totally ENJOY killing would be YOU! I think it's time the world rids itself of scum like you. "

Playing into his hands, Chika!!

"but I also don't agree with ****!NG IDIOTS like Stacey talking about shooting little kids for OIL. WTF does that have ANYTHING to do with this "war"?"

Well yeah, it does. Because a lot of people will maintain a belief that this "war" has as much to do with having a friendly government in a hostile area (for OIL) as it does with fighting terrorism. And kids dies in war. So there is a link.

And don't say that I should be on the front lines for "sticking up" for Stacey, because that is not a valid counter argument, I'm not sticking up for anyone, just making points like anyone else. :)

Lice: "There's no oil in Afghanistan"

Read some background mate. Oil is a major issue in that part of the world.

Maestro: "...the U.S.A and its economic interests(which benefit the whole world not just the U.S.)"

Depends which side of the globalisation issue you're on doesn't it? There are a lot of people who would disagree with you.

wushu chik

05-14-2002, 02:31 AM

Awww...I am hurt...you think THAT's Riled up?? Sheesh, i definetly gotta get my skillz back for arguing if you think THAT's what that was.

Anyways...point made, and totally understood! I just dispise Stacey and everything he says and stands for. There's my point!

~Wen~

scotty1

05-14-2002, 02:44 AM

Fair enough mate. :)

By the way, some of the links on your site are not working, I think the instructors section is unobtainable from the history section.

And before you say it, no I was not trying to perv at your picture!:D I'm far too scared of Ryu to do that.

ewallace

05-14-2002, 06:19 AM

You have zero integrity. I wouldn't believe you if you told me that some apples are green. Have a great day.

Stacey

05-14-2002, 06:24 AM

The US doesn't appear to be raping and pillaging, but our news wouldn't tell us anyways. I was just reporting what has happening over there. It wasn't bull, it just wasn't american propaganda.

The US does have foreign interest in mind, yet is following in the same political footsteps as Western Europe and Rome did in dealing with the middle east. This may seem like the natural course of action, but its not. Our own orientalism stereotypes have influenced American involvement in the near east since the turn of the last century.

Yes children are being shot...yes this apart of war, but is war necissary? Would the barbarians have sacked rome if Rome had loosened its noose just enough to let the people breathe? We may feel that we(US and West Europe) can get away with having the world under our bootstraps..Rome did. WHat can they do? Well they can fly planes into our office buildings using only box cutters.

If you beleive that America is strictly good, drive to Argentina, passing through Central America..you might just get another view on the subject.

We have good intentions as a country...but no cultural sensetivity. We want to free those women from behind their veils so they can cover themselves back up with cosmetics and objectify themselves Western style. This is cvililized. hahaha.

Afganistan was a dictatorship...not like America. We have a voting system. We are a democracy....or is it a republic...oh who cares. DE-FENSE WOO WOO, DE-FENSE WOO WOO. Were like a bunch of drunks at a football game. And our forfeiting our rights for front row seats.

I'm not trying to wrile anyone up, but get them to think about our responsability as American to have an enlightened and benevelent country. Rather than an imperialistic dictatorship fueled by nationalism (patriotism) and oil.

Where will all this take us in 50 years. How far have we come in the last 50?

ewallace

05-14-2002, 06:27 AM

There are a lot of things wrong in our country and with our foreign policy. But if the news that is being reported is coming from you I am inclined to believe it is nothing more than thoroughbred horse pucky.

Stacey

05-14-2002, 06:32 AM

fair enough. Then investigate it for yourself. Look at how orientalism stereotypes have affected American policy. Talk to marines that return home. I never asked you to beleive me, only to think about it.

Brad

05-14-2002, 06:32 AM

Reasons I support the war...
1.Al Qaida went out of their way to kill our civilians and I see no reason to let them just sit around and try again.
2.The Taliban was a horrible, hateful, and one of the most oppresive governments in the world. Nobody likes them, not even their closest allies apparently. As long as we had the chance to get rid of them and do the people a favor...
3.Having an ally in the region is nice, no matter what you say the motivation is(oil).

Things that bother me...
1.Israel using the excuse to go nutz in Palestine. I understand that they need to try and get rid of the suicide bombers, but their way doesn't seem to be working. They seem to be using it as an excuse to vent the hatred that's built up over the years from the killings.
2.Killing of civilians... while I KNOW we're not going around mowing down inocent civilians with tanks and machine guns, it does bother me when a bomb goes astray and kills a bunch of innocent civilians. It's very upsetting when they end up dying because of some "computer error" or bad intelligence.
3.We're using it as an excuse to go after Iraq. As much as I'd like to see Sadam's government fall, I don't feel now is the right time. Once we take it... what the hell are we going to do with it? Their people now hate us more than them because of our screw up during the gulf war. I don't think it's a situation like Afganistan, where we can invade, take over the country and install a new government.

ok, I'll finish there. Gotta go to work :D

ewallace

05-14-2002, 06:49 AM

I come from a Navy family. I have known a marine or two (or 20 but who's counting).

We all know you don't like dubbya Stacey. But the fact is that you have no basis for you absurd criticism of the U.S. nor do you posess any credibility based on your posting history. To me you seem like another confused (I mean really confused) college kid who is just beginning to question his/her/it's reason for being. Please show me the presidential directive ordered by GB to execute women and children if they stand in the way of hostile forces. What your "friend" told you may be true. The squad leader could have been a mental midget and ordered his troops to open fire. This would be an error on the squad leader's part. I know you dislike GWB but to put this on him is ignorance once again displayed on your part. If this line of thinking holds true I guess I should blame GWB for cross-dressing-gender-confused citizens such as yourself.

ReverendTim

05-14-2002, 07:40 AM

Brad, *great* post...you pretty much summed up my feelings on the subject to a T.

I'm one of the lefter-leaning people you could ever meet, I think. Somewhere I've got tape of myself getting escorted away by a cop at the demonstrations when they wouldn't let Nader debate, but I gotta tell ya, even I don't buy the assertion that this is all about oil and imperialism. I think there are overtones of that, and I wouldn't put it past the current administration to take advantage of the situation to make things more palatable for their oil-rich buddies, but by and large, I figure we got attacked by some pretty despicable people, and whether we had it coming or not (p.s. we didn't), it's how it is, and I'm not sure I see any other practical solution than to go and fight back.

I know America's not the beloved country we like to tell ourselves we are. And I know we've got some pretty crappy foreign policy in lot of places where little brown people live. But I also have a one year old baby in Boston, where apparently it's really easy to hide as a terrorist, and I'll be ****ed if I let him get gassed or killed because my fellow lefties want to take an unrealistic moral high road.

Dang...all I was gonna post was the "good post, Brad" part. Yikes.

--
Rev. Tim

scotty1

05-14-2002, 07:43 AM

Good post Tim. :)

KC Elbows

05-14-2002, 07:55 AM

Can't...stop...from...posting

must...resist...inner...troll

[INNER TROLL TAKES OVER]

I don't think Stacey said that GWB directly gave orders to attack civilians. I think the scenario was that enemy troops were using civilians as shields. Now, what should our military do in such a situation?

Not saying that it happened or didn't in this case, but it does happen in war sometimes, and this isn't the first time I've heard such a story.

Bear with me while I babble, but taking over Iraq is a pipe dream at this point, IMHO. Taking Iraq after taking Afghanistan would run a very high risk of uniting middle eastern countries against what would be perceived as a foreign invasion into their lands. GWB would not like that, as a united middle east would not only make us pay big dollars for oil, but a united middle east would not be so kind to foreign involvement in internal politics, a staple of US and british involvement in the middle east.

Look at the trend in global politics. The US, a combination of states, rules much of the world. China, another super power made up of many provinces, rules in Asia. The European Union, a conglomerate of the European states, is moving to a more united and more efficient union of Europe.

And then there's the middle east, who, due to a time of political instability, was manuevered and played by outside nations into a sort of semi-permanent instability, much like China was.

Hey, when China used to have warlords flare up and misbehave, didn't we used to take care of that problem, too, and put people more friendly to our interests in place? Mind you, we didn't have so many planes back then to hijack, so those warlords couldn't strike directly at us, but hey, they were messing with our profits! What happened to that? Oh, yeah, one of our "friendly" leaders couldn't hold China, and he was relocated, some other people took over and kicked our butts out.

So, we keep dealing with every middle eastern problem by attempts at disposing "unfriendly" leaders and putting "friendly" ones in place, we can see what we have to look forward to.

Now, in relation to the Afghanistan situation, what you see on the news is not the war itself, its generally sanitized views of the war, which by definition is a huge amount of ommission. In otherwords, if you think there was ever a war that didn't involve a lot of barbarity that would curdle your stomach, you watch too much TV.

However, we had no choice. Sept. 11 took the initiative from us. We had to respond. If it was solely an afghanistani plan, then it was a bad one, as they forced our hand without a coherent plan. If it was part of a larger plan, who's to say? What if another power began arming the remains of the afghani forces? I've heard this kind of tactic works quite well in afghanistan, and can be done in enough secrecy to shield the country supplying arms from public scrutiny. In any case, if the supplier was a super power, it is unlikely that the US would risk open war against another super power, much as the soviets avoided it before us. Then the US could potentially get mired and dissilusioned by the whole thing, suffer economically from it, and back out. And then, the only super power left could gloat and say "Democracy is a nice idea, but it just doesn't work".

Of course, this is all hypothetical babble, and probably not what is going on now. I just hope there's someone high up in the US making sure that's not what's happening.

One last thing. Anyone too shy to refer to the US as an empire can just use the more friendly "super power". Same effect on the rest of the world.

Mind you, I love the US. I just don't need to make up things about it to love. I love my super power, with its silicon valley and its hollywood and its jumbo chili dogs and fries. There, I said it.

I just don't love american politicians. Except Clinton. Clinton was the true american leader, and don't you forget it. He had a lady at the white house, and a few others in the secretarial pool. He had his MTV. And he was too slick for prosecution. Clinton's the man.

[INNER TROLL LAUGHS]

ewallace

05-14-2002, 08:03 AM

You failed to mention Jesse "The Body" KC. Where else can you make an ass of yourself on television for years and years and still get elected to run an entire state?

scotty1

05-14-2002, 08:04 AM

Aren't there bits in Blackhawk Down that describe Somalians using their women and children as shields? Maybe not literally, but tactically. I'm sure its not an original idea.

scotty1

05-14-2002, 08:07 AM

You know, everytime I post and the screen comes up that says 'Thanks for posting!' I can't help but read it (in my head) in a Big Gay Al "Thanks for asking!" type voice...

Oh yeah, and imagining that it's Kung Lek.:)

j/k:D

Sorry.

KC Elbows

05-14-2002, 08:12 AM

Jesse Ventura doesn't compare.

The conservatives got their american dogma all wrong. Sleeping around on your wife and getting caught on national TV and still getting away with it, though morally dubious a distinction, is **** impressive.

The man was accused of everything in the world, yet not one of those things made him unelectable. In fact, had he been able to go for a third term, do you really think Bush, who could not decisively beat Gore, would have stood a rat's chance in hell? Of course not.

In matters of politics, its better to put your money on the morally dubious, and leave the saints to healing the sick.

However, Jesse Ventura does have the distinction of claiming on national television that his uncle wrote the words to the theme song to the television show Batman. This was in jest, but it cracked me up nonetheless.

Budokan

05-14-2002, 08:33 AM

"Suppose for a minute that after getting inagurated, Bush simply pulled the troops out of Afganistan?" --Stacey

What are you even talking about, sh*thead? We didn't have any troops in Afganistan (sic) when W. took the oath of office. Learn your history first, sh*t-for-brains, before you start trying to REWRITE it.:rolleyes:

You know, I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat, always have been and always will be, but even this spew is ridiculous...:rolleyes:

KC Elbows

05-14-2002, 08:50 AM

I think he confused afghanistan with Saudi Arabia, which, if memory serves correctly, was bin lauden's initial excuse for hating america.

Ryu

05-14-2002, 10:20 AM

Can't you see this barnyard guessing game is tearing us apart??

You guys remember Jurassic Park? Where the kid sees the water begin to tremble in the cup.... when I read the original post, I swear I saw the same thing.

?? I thought Wushu and Respectmankind were friends?? :(
What happened?

Ryu

Badger

05-14-2002, 10:25 AM

C'mon everybody Group Hug!!!!!!

Ryu

05-14-2002, 10:33 AM

Hey, on a completely different note, what is Wushu Chik's website address?? I keep hearing she has a page, but I always forget to ask.

Ryu

ewallace

05-14-2002, 10:44 AM

I believe it is http://www.ricecop.com/cellblock7.php

:)

Stacey

05-14-2002, 11:24 AM

FYI, for those of you who call me an immature sh#thead...This doens't do a whole lot for your own maturity. Ok, so it was Suadi Arabia. The point is that when you have troops stationed in other people's country they will get ****ed.

No one answered my initial question...how would you feel about Saudi, Palestinian, or Afgani troops on our National symbols? What if they were in Washing DC, Mt. Rushmore, and Disneyworld. I think we would get ****ed too. Yes the troops were there, but why? Peacekeeping? Or shall we say "babysitting" the primitive easterners that act like children? Hmmm another reoccuring theme associated with Imperialism.

Some very intelligent posts here, keep em coming.

Oh and if you really want to bash me, do it on princible. Don't go off on some little semantic and miss the point. If I am one sided, please point out the other side...this is how to make me look stupid. Otherwise you pull a Wushuchick and look like a moron.

Hey Wushuchick. I was a girl on this forum too. No one would like you except for the remote possibility that you might have sex with them. No one hated me when I was a girl. I dissagree with people on many topics, like Blackjack for instance, but I respect what he was to say because of how he says it. He's also no moron.

wushu chik

05-14-2002, 11:27 AM

OK E~
That's all I can stand, AND I CAN'T STAND NO MORE....

Keep harassing me about my car, and I will bust out with N'SYNC LYRICS. I mean it....keep doing it and this thread will be filled with rediculous song lyrics. AND IF YOU STILL DON'T STOP, I WILL E-MAIL THEM TO YOU AND PM YOU WITH THEM.....just to drive you totally INSANE!!! Although, I have to admit that Ricecop thing was hella funny!!

www.shaolinnorthwest.com

It's still totally under construction. I think there's only 2 pics on there, and I am totally rewriting a ton of it, so THAT's why some of the stuff on there doesn't work!

Have a great day all!! Good to see you are back Ryu, I missed ya!! :)

~Wen~

ewallace

05-14-2002, 11:31 AM

That was just too hard to resist. That site really is funny though. You should read the hatemail section.

I will try to restrain myself from now on.

wushu chik

05-14-2002, 11:34 AM

Well stacey, the difference between you and Black Jack is YOU ARE A MORON!! Just thought I would clear that up!! AND you ARE an immature sh!thead! :)

~Wen~

ewallace

05-14-2002, 11:40 AM

check your P/M

DelicateSound

05-14-2002, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Stacey
I was a girl on this forum too. No one would like you except for the remote possibility that you might have sex with them. No one hated me when I was a girl.

Was?! Was?! What are you?

What have I told you before! Some of your posting is OK, but this "stuff" is sick OK?!

Children visit this board. In your own home you can feel free to tape up your ****, put on a dress and dance in front of the mirror, but NOT on a public forum.

I ate like five minutes ago. I do NOT want to see this bacon and egg butty in reverse!

African Tiger

05-14-2002, 03:28 PM

Ok, here's a message for the immature Shi#head or 'heads (if the brown Charmin hat fits, wear it)

First - learn to spell. Particularly if you are an elitist, leftist, preppy college kid, who's only adventure outside of the country, is down to the local black neighborhood to pick up some weed. Put down the "bottle of Corona shaped bong" and pick up a dictionary.

Second - before posting any anti-military rhetoric, you might want to do your research. After all there are three Marines on this site (among other servicemen), one of whom (yours truly) is a veteran of Operation Desert Storm.

Third - you will only "clown yourself" by blaming anything other than immediate current events on GWB. Remember, Bin Laden was a problem during Mr. Clinton's regime.

Finally - there will never be foreign troops stationed within the United States. It's not hypothetical, it's not even a nightmare - and if any countries get ****ed off at our troops being stationed on their shores, tough s h i t. If they don't like it, I'm sure we could accomodate them by leaving.

I certainly don't remember any Saudis complaining about me being there back in 90-91, because it DIDN'T HAPPEN. In fact, I can't tell you how many gifts and free meals I received while there.

guohuen

05-14-2002, 04:11 PM

Well said Man!

Stacey

05-14-2002, 04:39 PM

Why is everyone assuming I'm pro clinton? I never blamed Western oreintalism on GWB, just when he decides to invage Iraq. This is an ongoing stereotype that has affected foreign policy since the crusades.

I'm not antimilitary, I'm against behavior that will potentially get my ass blown off because of nationalistic egoism.

I don't smoke weed and your perception of me is yours to keep. I have done research. Lots of it. Hows mindlessly being programmed for the interest of big business treating you? My friend wasn't killing people for us back at home, not for the US of A, but for oil that we don't need. There are cheaper renewable methods of fuel and the oil companies keep them down.

How do you know there will never be foreign troops in the US? Rome never thought that simple barbarians with no technology could sack Rome...it hapenend. It WILL happen to the US if we continue to behave as though we are invincible. Oppression will end Terrorism like putting out a fire with gasoline.

I'm glad people who lived in Sauidi Arabia were hospitable. I never said they hated us.

FlyingSleeves

05-14-2002, 07:51 PM

I agree with Stacey, it is blind patriotisim. Anyone outside the US can see that.

If Bush really wants to win this war he will have to recruit people who are more ruthless than his milk fed babies in the US army.

I challenge him to recruit an army of TaeKwonDo trained killer babies!

Silumkid

05-14-2002, 09:09 PM

As usual, the "good people" are backing their oh-so-holier-than-thou anti-war efforts with made-up "facts", tugging at our heartstrings with all the evil atrocities. Misinformation, calling everyone else Nazis, lies...typical tactics of children with their heads buried in the sand having no conception of how the real worls works beyond Mommy and Daddy's conditioned fairy tales.

I think the story about your "friend" is a lie. It sounds like a big set-up to try and insult everyone else's intelligence on here..."If a thug can see it...", right? Just like you lied about being a female when you came on here in the first place, and you lied about the reasons why you did it.

Why anyone continues to pay attention to you and your BS threads is the only thing I wonder about. But that's OK...continue to do whatever makes you feel better about yourself and your lack of control and power in reality. Personally, I'll just ignore you again.

scotty1

05-15-2002, 01:43 AM

"There are cheaper renewable methods of fuel and the oil companies keep them down."

That's true. And that does fu*k me off, that they can stop a shedload of pollution and save us a shedload of money but they're not so they can keep lining their pockets. Think how many political problems would disappear if we didn't need oil.

I think in arguments like this people polarise. You have the people who say "our troops in Afghanistan are fighting for our freedom etc, risking their lives in service etc." and that's true. Its just not the whole truth, is it? There are other reasons - oil, and politics.

So someone like Stacey comes out (no pun intended) and says "the only reason we're across there is to secure our oil, and we're killing babies in the process" which is also true, just not the whole truth.

Truth be told, in the West's eyes there's a whole bunch of good reasons for that military action in Afghanistan. I'm sure there are selfish reasons llike oil, political footholds etc. But that's not to say that there's not also a large slice of kicking the arse of people who tried to kick yours, which is fair enough IMHO.

So you're both right, there, can we hug now? :)

"typical tactics of children with their heads buried in the sand having no conception of how the real worls works beyond Mommy and Daddy's conditioned fairy tales."

I believe that the above could apply to anybody on the far right or far left of any argument. There is a lot of liberal heart bleeding, and its countered by a lot of blind patriotism.

There is an old Chinese saying I just made up:

"When walking on a narrow cliff path it is wise to be aware of what is on your left and what is on your right, but also not to stray too far from the middle of the path."

:cool:

Just noticed something:

"Personally, I'll just ignore you again"

LOL!! I think you failed.

dezhen2001

05-15-2002, 02:32 AM

Scotty1: walking the middle path :D

david

Braden

05-15-2002, 04:15 AM

"but is war necissary?"

Yes.

"Would the barbarians have sacked rome if Rome had loosened its noose just enough to let the people breathe?"

Who are you talking about? You think the Huns were fighting oppression?

"Were like a bunch of drunks at a football game."

Before you get so judgemental, you should take your own advice and actually go to some of these countries.

Do you believe in right and wrong? Do you believe that people have a responability to try to prevent wrong things, even if they don't directly affect them? Do you believe that governments should for some reason be beyond moral constraints?

If you answered yes, yes, and no respectively (and I know you did) then I would really like to hear a logically consistent defense of being against putting soldiers on foreign lands.

Personally, I don't just think the war on Afghanistan was justified, I think it should have happened alot sooner. When a country's government destroys a "living" wonder of the world because of a military policy of religious persecution, and shoots and imprisons volunteers giving food to it's starving citizens (thus condemning thousands more to starve to death) some warning lights should start going off. Assuming you answered yes, yes, and no respectively (and I know you did) to the above questions, that means doing something.

And, as has allready been pointed out, Sept 11th casted aside any possible doubt even the most philosophical minded could have had.

Is the states blameless? Hardly. You guys did alot of really ****ty stuff to solidify your own beliefs, to fight puppet wars with russia, and yes, to make sure you had oil. And it's blown up in your face. Talking about this would make a great history book. But it's got nothing to do with solutions now (unless you have a time machine you're not telling people about). Now it's about solving the problem, not cursing how it came about. Fair? No. The world will be fair around the time when war is abolished (notably, around the same time Gene Roddenbury style replicators are invented - don't hold your breath). But it's the best we've got. Which, sad as it sounds, really should be a mantra for just about every concern raised in this thread.

Point being - *****ing is great for history books, crappy for foreign policy. Suggest alternatives if you really want to make a change. Don't *****, it closes doors and minds, it doesn't open them.

GreyMystik

05-15-2002, 07:55 AM

what "war on afghanistan"? i thought this was a "war on terrorism"? ;)
amazing how those little slips reveal things isn't it.

Black Jack

05-15-2002, 09:10 AM

How did my name get brought up in this farce????????

Just let sit me here in my underwear and eat my Italian sub in simple retrospection, ummmmm......lean prosciutto, hand rubbed capicola, genoa salami, onions, provolone cheese, tomatoes, lettuce and dressing.

To bad I don't have a good rootbeer to go with it.

Dark Knight

05-15-2002, 12:54 PM

George W. is not a Jr.

Lets look at California politics

"Computer software giant, Oracle Corporation, convinced California Governor
Gray Davis that if California awarded Oracle a $95 million no-bid contract,
the state would save $16 million on database software through volume
purchases.

"...Here's the problem: According to an AP story by Steve Lawrence, an
auditor for the state studied the situation and announced that rather than
saving $16 million, the no-bid contract would actually cost the state $41
million more than if it went through a separate bidding procedure for each
software purchase. Gray Davis, as you know, is running for re-election for
Governor. Oracle donated $25,000 to Davis' re-election campaign.

"...A couple of points which make that particular donation more interesting
is the fact that the check was delivered to the Davis campaign just days
after the contract was signed.. . . But according to a National Public Radio
report earlier this week, although the check was delivered in June, it was
actually written (and dated) in March. OK? See a pattern here? Write the
check. Wave it around. Ask for the contract. Get the contract. Deliver
the check."

- Rich Galen, "Mullings," 5/10/02

anton

05-17-2002, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by wall
The ONLY reasons why US attacked Afghanistan are (in order of importance):

1 - to gain control of the only suitable US-controllable route for Caspian oil (the second largest oil source in the world, due to go active in a few years and currently drilled by all the major US oil corporations).

2 - to gain a military position in the vicinity of China and the mid-east.

3 - it had to show a strong reaction to sep11 and attack someone.
Might as well pin the blame on someone that can be attacked without causing too much international destabilization (noone defended Afghanistan, not even China got upset), and more importantly someone that we need to control to achieve points 1 and 2. Go look at most of the Bush senior staff backgrounds.....CEOs, COOs, etc with most of the big corporations currently drilling in the caspian sea........

There has been some great reports on this by the BBC.....pity the journalist got in trouble...wonder why? ;-)

Ah, and yes, they do shoot kids etc and they are "collateral damage" in any war, but CNN don't show that ;-)

wall

I agree totally.

scotty1

05-17-2002, 01:51 AM

Those Bush quotes are bloody hilarious.

And yes, I agree with Wall too, as I've stated before.

Seems to sum up the situation succintly in my book, BUT no doubt there is also a large chunk of wanting to kick SOMEONE'S arse for flying planes into American people. I don't think you can disregard that.

Maybe its just that Afghanistan provided a suitable venue for some low risk high visibility arse kicking, plus it had all those other benefits.

Maybe Osama was never there in the first place.

What's a rootbeer?

AndyM

05-17-2002, 02:47 AM

Being fairly new to the net, I'd never heard the term 'Troll' used till I joined this forum.

This may be obvious to you older members but............

These people seem to soak up a lot of the forums resources and members energies!

They may be humorous in the short term, but by replying to these people we are surely re-fueling them!

I joined the site in the belief that, with 3,000 odd members, I would be able to find the answers to a couple of questions. The trouble is that as soon as someone posts a new topic, of limited interest, it gets swamped by barrages of Troll hate, and quickly slips off the new topics list.

Worst yet, just posting a serious question makes some of you guys react defensively, as if you are worried that the poster is a Troll pretending to be serious!

Couldn't Ralek, Stacey and the others go start their own forum somewhere where they can wind each other up indefinitely? Or are we all having too much fun venting gas at them?

AndyM

Royal Dragon

05-17-2002, 03:07 AM

Question, Evej "IF" we have all these renewable energy sources, aren't we still kabashed without oil? I mean it lubercates all machines, without oil, the machines stop in minutes. Electric cars are STILL going to need to be lubercated right?? Oh, and what about plastics?? Aren't those made from patrolium?

Just look around you, and count all the things made from plastic, and now remove them from you life, your sunk. How would we preserve food? There is plaenty of petrolium product in a refrigerator, how about the coolant used? Isn't that some sort of petrolium based agent?

CD are plastic
VHS tapes-Plactics
Sandwich bags -Plastic
Heck, most food is wrapped in plastic to keep it fresh.

With out Oil, we will all be back in the dark ages. So polish up you Kung Fu kids, someday our Kid's will be useing it for real........................................

anton

05-17-2002, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by scotty1
What's a rootbeer?

ginger ale

scotty1

05-17-2002, 03:57 AM

Good point Royal Dragon.

Black Jack man, I'm slightly disappointed. Ginger Beer?
Ever read Enid Blyton's Secret Seven or Famous Five?:D

You're obviously not the man I thought you were!:rolleyes:

J/K (before Black Jack traces me through my IP and sets fire to my house after riddling my gf and I with bullets and stabbing us in the face and throat):)

Well, not really :) more like :( :eek: :( !

Ford Prefect

05-17-2002, 06:44 AM

Wow. That's all I can say.

I totally agree with you though, Stacey. America would be much better off if we never acted to protect other well-functioning democracies in the world. If we did nothing after the September 11th attacks, the terrorists would see that peace and civilized duscussion are much better alternatives to violence. Most of all, we will be much safer and better people if we just let Saddam do his thing and create weapons of mass destruction. He won't use them on anybody.

I like the idealistic world you live in. Unfortunately it's not based on reality.

Mr Punch

05-17-2002, 06:48 AM

Hello boys (and wushu chik and any root-beer drinkers), i'm back... like anyone noticed i was gone (sniff).
I'm super, thanks for asking.

i agree with everyone, as the new self-appointed ambassador for niceness (being away sharpens your perspective on many things, and has made me realise that i actually know very very little about much... dagnammit... so i've assigned myself the above position!).

scotty, you're STILL on the board!? i don't mean you should be anywhere else, i like your style, but geeez-US W k-ryst, are you hardwired into your ****ing pooter?? do you have an existance offline?

btw, i lied about agreeing. most of the stuff on the war has been summed up nicely (again) by various posters, but i have to answer RD's post. and i lied about knowing nothing. i come clean, i'm an environmental freak: but your worst nightmare, a very very well-informed, still in research and cynical and business-savvy environmental freak.

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Question, Evej "IF" we have all these renewable energy sources, aren't we still kabashed without oil?

we do. and no.

I mean it lubercates all machines, without oil, the machines stop in minutes. Electric cars are STILL going to need to be lubercated right??

yes, they are. but neither are petroleum-based lubricants the only ones available.

Oh, and what about plastics?? Aren't those made from patrolium?

many of them, yes. MANY, not all, and there are, again, alternatives.

Just look around you, and count all the things made from plastic, and now remove them from you life, your sunk. How would we preserve food? There is plaenty of petrolium product in a refrigerator, how about the coolant used? Isn't that some sort of petrolium based agent?

again, many alternatives.

CD are plastic
VHS tapes-Plactics
Sandwich bags -Plastic
Heck, most food is wrapped in plastic to keep it fresh.

With out Oil, we will all be back in the dark ages. So polish up you Kung Fu kids, someday our Kid's will be useing it for real........................................

lubricants: many veg oils including the biggest biomass producing plant hemp, have been developed into competitive high performance machine-grade lubricants.

plastics: 1) PET is highly recyclable, though as yet, few companies have fully exploited or even realised the potential of this resource. this is mainly because of logistical difficulties. 2) cellulose polymers can be used in the same way as most solid plastics, though this will not be financially viable for a long time yet; and as sheet plastic (for bags etc)... both viable and biodegradable to inert/naturally assimiliable material in a very short time.

fridges: don't know! mostly made of thin (and of course recyclable) metal though aren't they? if we ARE using hydrocarbon-based coolants, it must be really really inefficient.

CDs and vids: you got me there. don't really know what they're made of.

SANDWICH BAGS!:rolleyes: i'm really gonna have to kick some hardcore ass if i can't get my sandwich bags.

The point (there was one!) is: we can reuse and recycle, and design new products, and redesign some supply-chain systems and some fairly non-existant economies of scale, to scale down our over-reliance on finite, over-polluting hydrocarbon resources.

after a hell of a lot of research, i'm pretty sure the only thing holding back most of the r&d is the fact that most governments rely on big bucks from the petrochemical industries, or actually contain many people from those industries. i don't think it's a big conspiracy. i do think it's extremely misguided, short-sighted and suicidal.

sorry about the long rant. hope somebody reads it!

this is something i am passionate about, and proud to be. if anyone wants to continue this rather drastic thread hijacking, maybe you should start another one, or maybe i will one day.

believe it or not, i can and do relate it to my martial arts, and i don't think it is separate from any aspect of our lives.

respect.