Mantis stylist's lunch money stolen daily by hsing yi stylist

[KC Elbows]

I've heard that there is an old saying that mantis fears hsing yi. Why is this?

[Mojo]

Is this a Hsing-I saying or a mantis saying ?
In Hsing-I we have all sorts of sayings like that. An example would be...

Hard is afraid of Soft
Soft is afraid of Ahn ( ie: Tai-chi )
Hsing-I is afraid of Nothing !

[Mojo]

Also, I just found this..
In 1915 Wang Xiangzhai defeated Zhou Ziyan, master of praying mantis style, who then became Wang's student.


Wang was a master of Yichuan.

[GreyMystik]

did you by chance happen to hear this old saying out of a BK Frantzis book, KC?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Mojo
Is this a Hsing-I saying or a mantis saying ?
In Hsing-I we have all sorts of sayings like that. An example would be...

Hard is afraid of Soft
Soft is afraid of Ahn ( ie: Tai-chi )
Hsing-I is afraid of Nothing !

Oh cool. So Hsing-I teaches humility too! :D

We have a saying too - we'll kick everyone's arse :D

[Kumkuat]

Originally posted by Mojo
Also, I just found this..
In 1915 Wang Xiangzhai defeated Zhou Ziyan, master of praying mantis style, who then became Wang's student.


Wang was a master of Yichuan.

Actually Wang is the creator if Yiquan. he was a master of xing yi before that I believe.

[Xebsball]

lol steal the lunch

[dre]

Give me your cookies!

[CD Lee]

I have heard this too. Than Mantis guys hate to fight Xingyi. It was told to me the reason is, because of the two styles differences. Mantis is more spread out, and of course Hsing-I or Xingyi is more direct, seeking to immediately penatrate the middle centerline and start smashing the soft stuff up.

I am sure Mantis guys would have some answer, but I would expect that certain styles could certainly have trouble with other styles. After all, in boxing and in tennis, styles make the match when talen is fairly equal.

Case in point. Ali had terrible fits with Ken Norton and Joe Fraziers styles of boxing. However, he handled George Foremans staight forward bashing style easily. However, Foreman completely destroyed Frazier twice, and almost killed Norton inside of two rounds! Frazier went down 6 times in two rounds! Sounds like paper, scissors, rock.

But seriously, I think it is because Xingyi is so geared at smashing through the middle.

[PaulLin]

One thing I known about Xing-Yi and mantis is that the 2nd element of water--Tsuan chuan--in Xing-Yi has totally defeated mantis hook hands. The mantis hook hands has been a favorit way in it's application and very useful against all other kinds of strikes untill it meets Xing-Yi Tsuan chuan, in which the mantis hand can't stick nor keep out the countinuous punch of it at all.

In 8 step mantis, the mantis hook was taken out of many places. In compareson with all other mantis style, 8 step preserved less on the mantis hook uses. They are all modified by BaGua and TungBei hands rather than the original mantis hooks. I guess that is one of the result after Xing-Yi, BaGua, and TungBei was incorperated into 8 step.

[mantis-1]

I don't know about the saying, but I heard a storie of my Sigung fighting a master of the hsing I system which ended in a draw and ever since he has held great respect for the system??? I don't know how true it is though.

[MightyB]

Fear the man, not the style. There's a lot of people who suck in a bunch of different styles.

The saying's a bunch of bunk. Mantis has techniques that are specifically designed to redirect center line attackers. Good kung fu is good kung fu. Hsing-yi and Mantis both have there fair share of wussies and charletans, and they both have there fair share of good and accomplished masters. Depends on who's fighting who and how they're feeling that day.

PS, my style is better than your style and my brother can beat your brother up-- that's the 2nd grade mentality of these kinds of threads.

[Kaitain(UK)]

you seem to be the one having a fit about it....

It's an interesting point to cover - what styles are particularly awkward for a style to overcome? was that why the style was developed? How true is it today when noone really trains a pure style (we are all exposed to a wide variety of styles)?

I could see this came more from a rivalry at some time that's stayed in Hsing-I?

I actually like reading about grief/attitude between styles - gives a good sense of the history behind TCMA

[KC Elbows]

MightyB,

I didn't say one style was worse than the other. I just asked for background on the saying. Sure, the thread title was totally derogatory, but in such an over the top tongue in cheek way that everyone should have been able to see that this was not a "my style is better than your style", especially as my style is descended from both hsing yi AND mantis.

Nonetheless, ALL styles address certain issues more than others, so there is merit to the argument, in the same way there is merit to the argument that, by not covering ground work, some stylists will have a hard time should the fight go to the ground against someone trained in a system that focusses on that.

[MightyB]

Actually, I don't think that anybody has ever trained in a "pure style" Life and learning are evolving processes. When the chips are down, you use whatever works to save your arse. I don't think that this is a new mindset especially since everything martial nowadays is sport or lawyer-fu. But, back in the day, things were settled with the fist with consequences that we can hardly imagine. You could die, you could be crippled, and worse yet, you could lose face.

All masters are MMA whether they know it or not.
-------

My issue with that saying that you were referring to is that, in all my years of 7* i've heard a lot of old sayings, and not once did I hear that mantis fears hsing-yi or anything else for that matter. I think that that saying is a reflection of hsing-yi's deep seated fear of mantis. Why else would they have a need for a saying like that?

[Kaitain(UK)]

the scene - 200 years ago when a trip to the next village was a long journey done on foot

How many styles do you think a master actually came into contact with? Today we're swamped with information about every style under the sun - if master kumkuat develops a new system of bare-arse sword fighting, Black Belt will have an article on it before he's even designed the school logo

[MightyB]

Actually, I was thinking about the Mongol hordes adopting weapons and tactics of the countries they defeated and how the Romans adopted Mongolian tactics to stop the invasion.

You got a point though, assuming past masters were intellectually inferior to people now and they lacked the imagination or intelligence to develop and adopt new techniques based on their observations of the world around them.

[Kaitain(UK)]

I'll leave it to Einstein - "we stand upon the shoulders of giants"

i.e. every advance we make in the world today is only possible because of the centuries of science and advancement that our ancestors gave us

[boy_analog]

Actually, if you hung around the xingyi forums about the place, you'd soon discover that xingyi people (as a wild generalisation) don't have a particular hangup about mantis or any other style. On the contrary, there's a friendly interest in these styles. Naturally, they're interested in other internal styles most of all.

FWIW, bagua stylists routinely claim that they can beat xingyi guys easily. BK Frantzis is a case in point.

If we want to be cute, we could say:

xingyi = rock
bagua = paper
mantis = scissors

especially since these associations seem so fitting. I have no idea if mantis people like to think that they can easily beat bagua, but I'll overlook that inconvenient detail for now.

The bottom line though is that if you get complacent about how your style matches up to another's you'll probably get your arse kicked. Sports psychologists understand this very well. Each week during our rugby league season, we see the captains of each opposing team vigorously insisting that their team are going into the next match as underdogs. Bit of a farce really!

[phantom]

There is an old thread in the mantis forum called "how effective is mantis?" in which I asked about how mantis matches up to Hsing-I. I think it would help answer your question.

[NorthernMantis]

Typical xing-yi guys walking around looking all tough and picking on people.:rolleyes: :D :D :p :p

[KC Elbows]

GIMME YOUR LUNCH MONEY!!!:mad:


:D

[Felipe Bido]

I feel hungry...NorthenMantis, come here...let's see what your mommy cooked for luch...





:D

[DelicateSound]

I'm sure Wing Chun is the wedgie-giving tough guy of the playground, acting all cool with his "centreline" and straight blast.


Meanwhile, Wushu is in the bogs, smoking Lambert and Butler, checking his 80's blue eyeshadow and mullet hair-do are OK.....

[wufupaul]

You'll have to get past me, Felipe! I already stole N Mantis's lunch and it's in my stomach now...you still wanna see it? You yoda lookin, x-wing levitatin, no ladies gettin, jedi foo!

[PaulLin]

I see different styles started with different approach and emphasised on different factors. Of course they are different. The styles that are better than the other? I would say there are really styles that is just different and depended on the practioners, but I would also say there are some styles just hopless and only have to steal form other styles and try to get better. Oh yeah, and they will used that "it is all depend on the practioners, don't limit your self on the style" as an excuse to justify their stealing.

I do agree on the practioner's standard, but styles matters to in many cases.

Has any one knows any traditional BaGua master who went to learn XingYi after they master BaGua? I can't find any. But there is planty old famous master in the past who went to learn BaGua after master XingYi. Why is that?

I can't really say about other styles of mantis, since 8 step is the only style of mantis that incorperated internal arts in and becomes a half-half in both internal and external. All other styles should be still the external sides. There are alot of differences on the manners of how to practice between 8 step and other mantis styles(like how to applied chi, what to focus in practicing, hand shapes, how to open the doors). However, the main structure of mantis still are the most important aspect in 8 step(like 12 soft, 8 hard, postures, applications), that is why it is still called mantis.

Any ways, I have never heard of mantis fear XingYi neither. But in the consideration of what goal of the movements you do and how much energy you spend, how much risks there is for counter moves by your opponent, there are alot of XingYi skills that is more effective in compare to mantis. There are some mantis moves that is effective more than Xing Yi too, just that Xing Yi has more.

[NorthernMantis]

Haha the jokes on you wu fu paul. I spit in my food.Mwahahaha

Pretty soon you'll start mutatiing into a mantis practitioner.:D

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by Felipe Bido
I feel hungry...NorthenMantis, come here...let's see what your mommy cooked for lunch...

:D

Don't be too ****y Felipe. My sifu's husband is an internal master so I picked up a couple of things and I've traded hands internal guys before.

:D :p

[NorthernMantis]

****y= c o c k y

[Felipe Bido]

LOL, NM, I was thinking "sh¡tty"


Wufupaul :D I bet NM's spit food tasted like a rotten durian...thanks for being faster than me this time.

[wufupaul]

Darnit, Nmantis..that's what that was..that's allright, your mom ate that part of it anyways. Wait..something is changing! I think I am turning into a mantis...oops! Nah, I just saw some new pics of Brooke Burke. Felipe: Dude, it really did taste like poo. Pooey melon, yech. It's all Prana's fault...he'll have bad karma for recommending it to me, :D

[wushu chik]

Durian=Nasty. I don't even have to eat it to know that it's not a good fruit!!! Wufu, Prana, NM & Felipe....stop eating each others "Lunches". It's not going to look too good to all the men on here.

Behave guys....and by the way, I am the MOST POWERFUL on this thread...and I do BSL! SO HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAA HA!!!

~Wen~

[wufupaul]

Are you trying to imply something about eating hot lunches? Sicko!

[wushu chik]

OK HUNG! You would think of the "Hot Lunches" thing. You are the sick-o! Boxed Lunches is more like it!!!!! HA HA HA!

~Wen~

[wufupaul]

Allright, Hing..what rhymes with dominatriz(instead of dominatrix)..hhhm..speaking of hot lunches, haha!

[wufupaul]

You changed it before anyone noticed it! Jeepers!

[wushu chik]

Hung, how dare you make my spelling errors public before i can even CHANGE THEM? This means war. Fight to the death! Just name the time, and the place, I will name the rules!! :D And, uh, come alone, k?? ;)

~Wen~

[Water Dragon]

Yeah, well, Shuai Chaio stuck Hsing Yi in a locker and fooled around with his grilfriend under the bleachers during 3rd period!

[NorthernMantis]

Funny 'cause mantis was messing around with shai chiao's sister and throwing paper balls at bak sil lum . I feel a shaw brother's moment coming on:D

Let's get this straight.

The wing chun guys are going around giving everyone a wedgie.

While in the mean time hsing yi is stealing peoples money and wufupaul is eating prechewed food.

Wufupaul complains that the food tastes as bad as Turyians posts while shai chiao is fooling around with hsing yi's girlfriend.

What a story

[yu shan]

hsing yi people, explain to me your plan of attack on my sandwich?

[NorthernMantis]

Hey yu shan,

You have to be careful around those guys. They're techniques are really direct and go straight for the sandwich.

lol jokes aside the only one who I heard mention that mantis fear hsing yi was B.K. Frantzis. Now I know B. K. Frantzis knows his stuff but he's been known to say things that will get people mad at times.

[wushu chik]

While the Evil Hung Gar master is going around the school, trying to steal homework, the Wing Chun guy is going around and giving everyone a wedgie.

Yes, Shuai Chaio stuck Hsing Yi in a locker and fooled around with his grilfriend under the bleachers during 3rd period, BUT Hsing Yi found out and went and got his friend Bak Sil Lum to do the fighting for him. This is because Bak Sil Lum is the strongest, most powerful fighter in the school.

While Bak Sil Lum was beating up Shuai Chaio, Hsing Yi was going around and stealing everyones sandwich.

Meanwhile, the Evil Hung Gar Master came up to Hsing Yi, and tried to steal his homework, while the Wing Chun guy came up to Hsing Yi and tried to give him a wedgie.

Bak Sil Lum didn't care too much for his friend Hsing Yi getting attacked by TWO people at the same time, so he jumped in, and Kicked BOTH THEIR asses.

~Wen~

[NorthernMantis]

I think Bak Sil Lum is full of himself and is living in a dream land:D :p

[wushu chik]

NO NO...it's reality...notice i didn't put mantis in there...because it's all irrelivant to life HA HA HA..
JUST JOKING, i forgot!

~Wen~

[DelicateSound]

Apparantly San Soo is in detention for "impersonating a martial art" and Wushu has now left the toilets, but is checking his perm in the reflection in the gym room window, hoping no-one notices his folly in mixing gold earings and silver neckless.

[PaulLin]

I wondered how whould these CMA School youngsters's football team can do. They are gonna pull each other's leg and let the other BJJ or TKD School's football team touch down right?

And the scores goes to the other teams, not the CMA team.

[Water Dragon]

Wen,
The only reason Bak Sil Lum can beat up anyone is because he was held back 3 times and rides the short bus to school :p

[NorthernMantis]

The bjj guys couldn't touch the tkd team since the tkd's guys were flying up and down the field with aerial kicks.