Religious aspect of MA

[zen_celt]

I've noticed that many martial styles are attributed divine teachings(iaido), born in places of religious devotion(Shaolin), and studied by "holy" men(Japanese warrior monks). I'm curious as to why there is this trend in MA. I hear daily about people who say things like, "I can do all things through God," and it makes me wonder whether or not martial students use religion as a way to funnel innate abilities in their training. An example being a guy can break a brick with his punch on his own, but he prays before hand and then attributes the break to his God when all the prayer did was give him a moment to focus(meditation). Or is it possible that their truly is divine intervention going on? Another example being the monk who can focus energy to place his hands in a roller that weighs hundreds of pounds and would crush a normal man's arms. Can he do this because he is a monk or because he trains well?

I guess what I am asking is; what role does religion play in martial arts? The history of Japanese MA, holds that samurai feared a warrior monk because of his mystic power and prowess on the battle field. It's entirely possible that the samurai were defeated simply because they psyched themselves out, the monks trained all day every day and had the zealous aspect to their fighting. However, samurai studied zen as well and could just focus on the battle not the fear, trained daily, and were insane opponents who did not fear death. So can it be that the monks had true supernatural powers?

Yes its true people made stories to deal with things they couldn't explain but there is truth to legend and we do things in MA that have not been(and some that cannot as of yet) be explained.

I know a lot of this can sound like a kid who believes his fairy tales too much, but many people outside kung fu and MA in general read the fantasy novels of Eric Van Lustbader, comic books etc. and believe that to be true. Moreover, there is some truth to most legends and these types of stories are not Asia specific, just look at the history and legends of ancient/medieval Europe. There's got to be something there. I wonder occasionally if the further back we go in history and the closer we get to our origins, if it's possible that mystical aspects of MA, and life in general could be true.

I know that MA is considered a skill akin to boxing(boxing is a martial art afterall), and religion is not required to fight, but there is a definite correlation between the founding and refining of the fighting arts and religion/mysticism.

[NorthernMantis]

It depends on your beliefs. Even though I onpenly admit it that I do mnay things through God and that God is the source of my inspiration I understand that not everyone shares that belief or the same belief system I do.

If you're religous then yes it is thriough divine intervention to a certain point . No religion that I have seen, especially my own, was made to aid in any type of war or vilence. Yes it is true that God can help me to protect myself from harm but when I go around saying that I can kick someones but or punch through walls becuase of my faith in God is arrogant and goes againts teachings of peace and non violence.

It deopends on what you want to beleive.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i worship the devil. i use my kung fu to capture victims for my dark prince.

[NorthernMantis]

No you don't don't GDA you're a Christian who worships God and you know it!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

nuhhhh uhhhhh.

[NorthernMantis]

uhhh huuhh times 2

[yu shan]

Believe in God, trust in his accordance...then kick booty!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

First off, this is the felonious monk, GDA went for beer, so I will answer your questions.

don't worry yourself about the inferior Japu55inese so called arts, for I have fought many different jap "masters" and none have been able to touch me thanks to my superior kung-fu. But if you do wonder about the influence of God in Jap MA, then you are a fool. the buddhists and zen masters do not beleive in God, let alone meditate on me(God) for greater power.

I'm curious what style(s) do you take, what is your age and do you feel comfortable with what you know, if so would you like to test your skill against the the unbeatable felonious monk. after I show you why my kung-fu is superior, I will you also tell you how I became known as the deity "the unbeatable felonious monk"

Fall to your knees and worship me!

[MaFuYee]

hehe... i always find it funny when i watch some sort of boxing/ufc type fight, and i see the fighters 'pray' before the match.

i especially find it funny when they both 'pray' before the match. (does god then decide to help the one who is the more loyal devotee?)

do they really think 'god' is there to help them beat the snot out of the other guy? - the same guy who was also only moments before begging god for help to beat the snot out of guy #1?

* i also find it hillarious when i hear gangster rappers giving 'thanks to god' upon getting an award. - a-yup, i'm sure 'god' inspired their wonderful lyrics.

i refer to this phenomena, of people attributing their success to god, as the "dumbo syndrome".
(very aptly named, eh? - if you recall the story of dumbo, and his 'magical' feather.)

it just goes to show how stupid and irrational people can be, when they decide to let others do their thinking for them.

[Former castleva]

Confucianism (If this is the spelling)
Buddhism
Tao

These are the religions that kung-fu had it´s philosophy from.
Probably left it´s tracks.
Does not mean that martial art is a religion on their own though,mental mindset of any respectful art is a common one,generally speaking.
I´d lay the weight on pure practise,not to forget that religion was what pushed them forwards.

[Sho]

We have a saying that "Katana ha Nihonjin no tamashi" which means that the sword is Japanese people's (warriors') spirit.

[Gabriel]

testing

[Gabriel]

testing 2

[David Jamieson]

While religion is attached to martial arts, it is done so to guide the morals and ethics of the martial artist. So that killing is not done without insight to the why's and where-to-fors of the act of killing or subduing an enemy. If killing is done for the sake of killing them it is not "art" it is simply barbarism.

Those who wished that higher forms of martial arts be only known by those with good social morals saw that monasteries were a fitting place to secure these arts and knowledge and were secure that the general public would not be out and about commiting attrocities with them. Better to have a man of peace with the knowledge than to have a gang of thugs with it, yes?

However, religion has absolutely nothing to do with the actual practice of martial arts. Principles of fighting are not "life philosophies" they are more or less guiding rules that are gleened from experience in fighting and not from experience in worship or prayer.

Martial arts are not derived from religious philosophy. They are derived from a need to survive. The concept of mercy and compassion is derived from religion and religio-philosophy and the martial artist is encouraged to nurture these values within themselves so as to temper their hands when in combat and when their enemy is at their feet.

peace

[FeloniousMonk]

I have always enjoyed your posts, you always bring up interesting points. When people would fight to the death it was generally because when one master fought another they would reveal something that was secret in order to defeat the other master, and rather letting one live to teach their secret they simply killed them

to quote you "peace"

[David Jamieson]

felonious, in some cases what you say is likely to have a truth in it.

It is just as likely that the challenger was not the master who had to reveal the "secret" to defeat his opponent.

Usually a challenge is not issued by the one on the moral high ground and instead it is met by that one. A challenge by the righteous would come out of the need to quell evil or wrongdoing.

It has been said that the Buddha allowed for the study of martial arts so that the forces of evil could be destroyed. It is a bitter fact of life that it is generally the evil ones who cause trouble in society and who upset the balance of normalized life for people and therefor it is the righteous in many viewpoints that destroy or attempt to destroy those who would subjigate the weak. Thereby restoring balance.

When all evil is destroyed (an impossibility when considering the need for balance in all things imho) then the meek shall inheret the earth after all?

peace

[guohuen]

Language archeologist have found the tax records of a town on the dead sea from ancient times. In them they found the ancient greek word PRAOS repeated. Praos is the work translated in english bibles as MEEK. They discovered that because of the way the word is used in these documents it has to mean TRAINED or DISCIPLINED. Kind of changes things doesn't it?

[Shadow Dragon]

MA & Religion.

Adding to what previous Posters have said.

In Asia and also in many western countries the cultural centers, places of learning & study were usually Temples, Churches and so on.

And thus often MA were also taught at the same centers and gotten a religious undertone and influence.

Peace.