horse stance

[buksing_king]

hey there everyone

I was wondering how long you guys can hold a good solid horse stance for......

I think i must be very bad at it or something ...... i can only hold a low horse stance for like 5-6 mins ....... this is a correct horse stance though .... with feet perpendicular to shoulders.... knees pushed out etc ....

Does anyone have any advice on how to improve this time ...?

Would doing a really low horse stance for a shorter time be better ? i am really clueless ........

any replies are appreciated :)

[bearpaw]

We improve our time just using no wieght squats ... just like doing lots of pull ups improves how long you hang on the bar ...

[buksing_king]

So you improve your time in horse stance by simply doing squats without weights at all ?

My fellow practitioners say the best way to train for more time is to do it everyday ..... gradually getting longer

The method that you described seems like it would really work on muscle endurance which is basically what is used when you perform a horse stance for an extended period of time ..... to my understanding

does anyone else have any comments on this ? any other comments or techniques ?

All replies are appreciated :)

[Former castleva]

In the old days,martial art students were said to hold difficult stances for hours without stopping :eek:
Not to say we should ;)

Nice info everyone.
i don´t know how you use to do it,but "correct" way of shifting 50% of weight for each leg could help.
From different view,weight should be put to dantien,but I don´t know if this might be the case in ma bu (maybe the previous one)

Please try to make your qi flow freely,with legs as much NOT locked as possible,which would be counterproductive,and possibly bad for connective tissues (someone wiser may correct,if needed)


:cool:

[IronFist]

Originally posted by bearpaw
We improve our time just using no wieght squats ... just like doing lots of pull ups improves how long you hang on the bar ...

That kinda doesn't make sense. But if it works for you, then use it :)

The best way to get better at something is generally to do it, however.

IronFist

[nospam]

Why do you want to increase your static horse stance endurance for what purpose? You already hold it for 5 minutes...why longer?

nospam.
:cool:

[buksing_king]

so yeah

Alot of students who have been in the syste longer than me can hold horse stances for 30 mins + !!!

I am aiming at that...... in the long run

So you guys reckon the best method is to just do horse stance ? makes sense heheh

Thanks for the replies any comments or experiences are welcome !

[CLFNole]

Bucksing King:

From your name I am guessing that you do buck sing CLF. I am a hung sing practioner myself. I was always taught that in CLF it is not good to practice sei ping ma (horse stance) for long periods of time. Our stances are supposed to be quick and lively. When doing lei ma or che kuen the stances are held but for maybe 30 seconds to a minute each. I was told that the long stance training akin to hung gar is different from our CLF stance training.

Peace.

[mixxalot]

I too am working on developing a solid horse stance as part of my CLF
training. My current level is only 5 minutes but I hope to get up to 20 minutes.
Personally I think that its more important to have good form than just to be able to remain in horse stance for hours UNLESS you happen to study hung gar than thats a separate matter. I do one legged squats and stretching/yoga exercises. Good luck, I have more trouble with the twisting and kneeling stances in CLF like loq quai ma and nau mau than with the horse stance.

[fa_jing]

Just do it! Buy a timer and set it to however many minutes you think you can do.

Afterwards, I suggest jumping jacks or any kind of moving training, to make sure energy has not stagnated in the legs.

-FJ

[yu shan]

I will share a true experience, although I will hear doubt. Anyway, had a Shrfu once that would read to us while we practiced our horse stance, occasionally putting the book down and stand on our legs. This would go on for 60 minutes! The worst nights were when he would stir-fry while we trained in horse. The combination of the pain and aroma of ginger and garlic were unbearable. The Shrfu made sure the horse stance was being done correctly, for those questions...oh yes, all the while mosquitos dive bombing your back!(Florida) didn`t dare swat.

In my opinon, too much emphasis is put on stance training. Do your stance training on your own time if need be. Come to class to learn KF, forms, applications, drills, two-person etc. By the way he timed us...60 min. no joke! Man was I young and stupid.

Hope everyone has a great Memorial holiday!

[buksing_king]

really one whole hour?!
that is crazy

anyway, horse stance doesnt just build up your leg muscles or give you muscle endurance or whatever....

It builds up your mind, if you are trying to hold a stance for a prolonged period of time then of course it will hurt, but anything that you do will not make the time go any faster

This is when you can train your mind, if you can blok out the pain in your legs and focus on something else then you have learnt something new altogether that is equally as destructive as solid stances and leg power

[mixxalot]

Is self defense. Think about it.. while you won't necessarily use just horse
stance for offensive attacks in self defense, by developing a solid deep
horse stance, you can avoid getting pushed over in a fight. Last nite I tested
this theory in a dance club. A drunk person pushed me by accident and I went into a deep horse stance by instinct. Not only did I avoid falling over or moving far but I was in a great strategic position for low attacks.

[yu shan]

60 minutes is insane, but I didn`t want to question my Shrfu. He did stress being "mind strong" all the while I`m focusing on my kung fu I should be doing. I do not put my students through this lengthy leg training. I believe we obtain most leg strength thru kicking, low stances during exercises/forms, and running.

[fa_jing]

I hate to pry, Yu Shan, but how long did it take you to build up to 60 minutes at a time? And were you fully grown, or a lightweight youngster?

Thanks
-FJ

[Hau Tien]

In the branch of 7* PM I study, we do stance training. On our tests, we must hold stances for a specific period of time.

My last test, I had to hold a Horse stance for 7 minutes, a Bow and Arrow stance for 7 minutes and a Ding (AKA Cat) stance for 7 minutes. These are done in a row with no break in between. The Ding stance is REALLY hard, since you have 90% of your weight on your bent back leg. That's a total of 21 minutes of stances.

My next test, I likely only have to hold one stance... the horse. For 10 minutes. I can already do that. I'm not sure what my top time is, though. I'd guess no more than 15 minutes at current. I'm a pretty big guy, so I think i'm doing pretty good. (6'1", 225lbs)

The way our tests go... First test, 3 minute stances... Second test, 5 minute, Third test, 7 minute, fourth test, 10 minute. Doesn't sound like many tests, but it takes a substantial amount of time in between tests. We don't place much emphasis on "sashes" (Although we do have them - I would guess as a way for us Westerners to obtain a visible goal:) )

Our "black sash" test requires a horse stance to be held for 30 minutes. Yikes!

Oh... my Sifu said the best way to stance train... is to hold the stances:)

Hau Tien

[fa_jing]

Hi Hau, how are things? :p

Glad to see you're still going strong! :)

I studied 7* briefly (six months), had to switch out because of old nerve damage in my wrist, this doesn't go well with the PM emphasis on the forearm... Great style, though.

Any, I still train at Master Kwan's kwoon here in Chicago, he isn't fully Chinese, but grew up in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and was in some HK Kung Fu flicks. He doesn't dwell on the mystical, but he is real into traditional training. Said that, his first year training, all he was allowed to do is hold Ma Bu, no punches or anything!

Do you guys do the Yi Ging Ching training? We did this before each class, a set of 12 exercises kind of between Calisthenics and Qi Gong.

Your horse times seem good to me. Our PM class, at the time, didn't have anyone who had studied more than 2 years, but some of the guys were real serious. A couple of classes, during our basic training portion of class, our Si-hing had us do two minutes each side in the Golden Rooster stance, then five minutes in Ma Bu directly afterward. There wasn't a dry eye in the class, so to speak. I think only 1 guy was really able to do it. One of my short-term goals is to be able to do this, I feel I'll be there in a few months.

Anyway, I like the idea of tying sash level to the stance holding. My Wing Chun sifu doesn't have levels, so I figured I'd award myself a black sash when I can hold Ma Bu for 10 minutes straight. Not good enough for your school, though.

I don't know what Master Kwan's (7*) requirements are for stance holding and sash level.

-FJ

[Hau Tien]

"Hi Hau, how are things?"

Peachy keen, jelly bean;)

"Glad to see you're still going strong!"

hehe... Kung Fu has become a huge part of my life:)

"I studied 7* briefly (six months), had to switch out because of old nerve damage in my wrist, this doesn't go well with the PM emphasis on the forearm... Great style, though."

I can see how that would inhibit you. We do focus a LOT on the forearm... mine are coming along quite well:) Although not anywhere near my training partner... although he IS a Black sash:) His are like stone. Our Sifu's are like coiled steel under flesh... That seems incredible to me.

"Do you guys do the Yi Ging Ching training? We did this before each class, a set of 12 exercises kind of between Calisthenics and Qi Gong."

I've never heard it called that... We do something called "Lo Han"... I've seen people number them differently, though... but from the brief description you've given, that's what it sounds like. I believe "Lo Han" translates to "Monk's Skill".

"Your horse times seem good to me. Our PM class, at the time, didn't have anyone who had studied more than 2 years, but some of the guys were real serious. A couple of classes, during our basic training portion of class, our Si-hing had us do two minutes each side in the Golden Rooster stance, then five minutes in Ma Bu directly afterward. There wasn't a dry eye in the class, so to speak. I think only 1 guy was really able to do it. One of my short-term goals is to be able to do this, I feel I'll be there in a few months. "

We don't practice it too often in class... although when we're waiting for Sifu, we sit in either a horse or a ding stance. Our Si-hing leads us in that... he's got like 2% body fat, which makes it a lot easier for him than most of us... we're sweating and have shakey legs sometimes by the time Sifu returns:)

"Anyway, I like the idea of tying sash level to the stance holding. My Wing Chun sifu doesn't have levels, so I figured I'd award myself a black sash when I can hold Ma Bu for 10 minutes straight. Not good enough for your school, though."

Our Black sashes are REALLY good. The test for your black sash is about 5 hours long. I'm scared to death of when I have to do mine. Thankfully, that's a few levels off.

In our branch (I say our branch, cause I'm a part of a VERY small branch of 7* PM - Under Grand Master Kwok Cho Chiu... I don't know much about the "main" branch) we only have 3 sashes. Yellow, Green, and Black. When you join, you have no sash. You learn a very basic form and some basic kicks and punches (Takes anywhere from 1 to 6 months, depending on coordination, etc), then you test for your yellow sash. Then we have two levels in Yellow, then you test for your green. Then two levels in green, and you can test for your black. Then we have 7 levels in black... To get there is a crazy amount of work.

Oh... and before you ask, I'm almost ready to test for my first level green;) Just gotta finish off one empty hand form and the sergikwan (sp?- Nunchucks, in any case) form.

"I don't know what Master Kwan's (7*) requirements are for stance holding and sash level. "

I'd be curious to hear how the sash levels work in other 7* schools:)

Talk to you later!

Hau Tien

[yu shan]

Hey Fa_jing

I was about 32 at the time. This particular teacher put alot of emphasis on leg strength. We sort of built up to the long periods...he basically got a little weird with it. Ego, do as I say stuff. It did give me a great foundation for what I do now. Have a good day.