Runner's knee and martial arts

[icebear]

Hi
I have been doing (traditional) Ju Jitsu (I know this is a Kung Fu forum, but you seem to give advice that is useful for most MA' practioners) for about half a year now. The last weeks my knees have started to hurt, especially after training. After reading about the subject, I suspect it is Runner's knee. (It has gotten slowly worse, not a sudden injury). My question is, does any of you have any experience practicing MA with this condition? Any good tips for not aggrevating it?

Thanks.

[dnc101]

I have knee problems, though not really bad. I can tell you what works for me- but if your problem is chronic I'd suggest seeing someone trained and experienced in sports medicine.

1. If the problem is in the joint itself I'd get on a maintenance program of glucosamine, chondhroitin, and MSM with vitamin C. And definately see a pro if this is the case.

2. A joint is only as good as its support, so strengthen the leg muscles with particular attention to the quadriceps. Avoid any exercises that grind or excessively strain the knees, like deep knee bends/squats. The best one I've found is to sit with my back against the wall, thighs parallel to the ground, and nothing under my butt. Hold as long as you can, but get up if your knees are getting strained. Another good one is to sit on the edge of a sturdy chair or bench and hold your legs out straight for a while.

3. Stretch the knee. In addition to your normal stretching, which you should be doing before and after each workout, push the pattella up, down and side to side for a few reps. This stretches the ligaments and tendons in that area and may be all that is needed to relieve your pain if nothing is wrong. My physical therapist suggested that one to me, in addition to the other stuff I'm already doing.

Good luck, and with any joint problems prevention is best, but if that fails the earlier you get a handle on the problem the better off you are.

[yu shan]

Good counsel 101! What do you think about massage?

[dnc101]

massage is definately good, though I really don't do it. Same with accupuncture.

Another good thing that I am having done is called myofascial release. I highly recomend it if you've ever suffered any type of trauma- hard contact training, sparring or fighting come to mind here for some reason. It can be difficult to find someone who is competent to do it, usually a physical therapist who's been trained in it. But you would not believe the improvement in overall health and well being. It is sort of like a deep massage, only with the specific purpose of releasing bound up myofascia. The only drawbacks are that it can hurt like the devil ( though it isn't unbearable) and it is expensive to train for and hard to do, so it is generally expensive to have done.

Also, after reviewing my earlier post, I see I forgot to mention the obvious- get a good pair of knee braces and knee pads.

[harry_the_monk]

icebear,

Runners knee comes about usually due to a weakness in the iliotibial tract. This is a muscle which helps stabalise the knee joint. Normally I advise people who have that symptom to try stregthining work like Abductor strenth exercises.(the ones you usually see women doing in the gym to work off their butts...legs going concentric outwards.)

If you don't have access to a gym you could always try using ankle weights and from a standing position bring your leg up sideways(as if you were doing side splits with one leg.)

Another theory could be that your quads are not evenly developed, pulling your patella out of line. Maybe if you've been practising too many kicks from just one angle.

Do go and get proper advice though as it may not be runners knee.

[Taone]

101 - I know what you mean :)
I'm doing a massage certificate, almost finished now, and I'm doing deep tissue massage/myofascial release.
It's funny when people ask for deep tissue massage in the clinic and expect a swedish massage, only harder. Then they get this - where your optimal working range on the pain scale is often 6 out of 10 :)

[dnc101]

Iwish there were more MFR people out there. I don't know if it really cures anything except the bound up muscle tissue. But it definately relieves a major source of irritation for whatever is ailing you. And I suspect that if it was more common a lot of Chiropractors would be selling used cars. (Don't get me wrong- nothing against a good Chiropractor, but I've ran into a few that should be put out of business). It is also supposed to release stored toxins and relieve mental stress, as well as improve emotional well being. If you told me it would reverse aging I'd believe you- it's been that good for me.

As for 6 out of 10 on the pain scale, you're being gentle. Dureing one prolonged session of holding a deep probing finger into my sterno-clydo-mastoid muscle (spelling?) my physical therapist asked me how it felt, and if I was holding up ok. I told him if he wasn't so d@#^ big I'd get up and hit him! He got a kick out of that.

[icebear]

Thanks! Nice advice. I am going to see if I can find someone who does myofascial release, I'm generally a bit stiff in my muscles and some deep massage once or twice a month (?) would probably make me feel better overall.

[dnc101]

Icebar- you won't regret getting the MFR, but make sure you get someone who's trained in it. And be prepared for a program or serries of visits as this is not just massage. In fact, arround here you have to be refered by a doctor before you can get it done (not sure if that is the case everywhere). This is a program of therepy, and depending on how much you've abused your body it can be extensive. I'm going on to about twenty visits now with no end in sight, but I'm an extreme case. But if you are having problems loosening up and /or stretching I'd almost guarantee it will do you good. My stretching capabilities have more than doubled. Good luck.