Eagle Claw information

[Internal Flow]

I will probably start eagle claw training in some days , and i would like some information. Can anybody tell me at least something about it? :rolleyes:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Hi Internal Flow,

Let me introduce myself as Ego Extrodinaire. I have a back groud in Northern & Southern Kung fu, with Northern being the superior of the two. However, I've stopped practicing for many years since my car accident that left me paralized.

Let's get down to the topic of Eagle Claw shall we? Well I can't say that i know that much about the system but it is about 100 or so years older than Northern Mantis and its derivatives. in its original form, I would guess that it would have been an effeictive system but that's all ancient history.

The form that's being taught now is mostly from the Tsing Mo Assiociation from Hong Kong. In my opinion, mantis systems that have been through this association has suffered from a proliferation of forms and this is most apparent in he lineage from Hong Kong. I beieve that Eagle Claw sufferred the same fate and may have also lost its fighting ability.

So I guess I can't say that I've seen proper eagle claw, just the watered down stuff like so many other kung fu systems. Maybe you'll find a good school in Greece. If you do let me know!

Maximus Materialize!

[Ben Gash]

Ego, I thought you were about to take up northern styles when you had your crash. Those inconsistencies are creeping in again Kelvin.
Anyway, Eagle Claw was created by the Chinese General Oak Fei in the 13th century (according to tradition. Oak fei is actually claimed to be the founder of several northern styles, and I'm sure they can't all be true). He created a long arm system based on Northern Shaolin long fist. Some sources claim that the system he created was in fact called "Elephant Boxing" and that the eagle claw movements were added later. Whatever the truth, the system came to utilise grabbing and clawing techniques utilising two specialist hand shapes. One looks like a very tight Tiger claw, and the other is a two fingered claw similar to that found in Southern dragon and mantis systems.
eagle claw Chin Na training emphasises the manipulation of 108 pressure points.
The system became adopted in the Shaolin syllabus, and in the 16th century the monk Lai Chin combined it with Faan Tze (continuous attack boxing or wheeling boxing) to create Faan Tze Ying Jow Pai (continuous attack eagle claw fist) which is the most prevalent system today.
If you go to a school of Chin Woo origin you will have to learn the longfist form Gongliquan (strong fundamentals boxing) and the Mizhong form Jiequan (quick fist or intercepting fist) before learning the eagle claw forms. Both are good longfist training forms.
Eagle claw is a comprehensive system and contains all that you would expect from a traditional chinese system, such as striking, kicking, leg attacks and sweeps, chin na, shuai jiao and weaponry.

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

[Internal Flow]

Ego Extrodinaire, Ben Gash
Thank you for your replies, ill go and see and tell you about it

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Ben Gash,

Again you though wrong! If you read my post you'll realise that I was building up a Northern back ground before the crash. And again just for your information, I'm Ego Extrodinaire not Kelvin. Do you know how to read? because you sure write some nonesense in the Kung Fu forum.

I'll be very surprised that Mizong is taught before Eagle Claw. Mizong is a combination of HsiangI, Ba Gua, Ba Ji etc. Very complex system with lots of twisitng. But then again if Ching Woo is the same as the Zing Mo Association, then stay clear from that. In my opinion, the association teaches crap kung fu.

Like i said before, I don't know where you can learn good eagle claw. I have Shum Lung's orange book on eagle claw. The applications shown there are very very doggy. I think his linage is from Zing Mo.

Maximus Materialize!

[Internal Flow]

What is Shum Lungs orange book on eagle claw? Any good books about it ? (eagle claw) :)

[Ben Gash]

Ego, where do you get your information from? Mizhong predates Bagua and bears no resemblance to Baji whatsoever.
I've seen some photos of Leung Shum doing applications, and they were a bit odd, but what people are willing to put in a book or magazine and what they actually do can be quite different.

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Ben Gash

Mizong is a derived style from all sorts of Northern systems.

Why would an author misrepresent their own style in a book, that is just a dumb thing to say for a smart person like you. But at least you've got my name right - finally.

Internal Flow

For your information, the Orange Book is titled
Eagle Claw Kung-Fu Classical Northern Chinese Fist compiled by Master Leung Shum. It is 129 pages long.

published by Ying Jow Pai Chinese Martial Arts
369-371 West 34th Street 2nd Floor New York NY 2001 tel: 212-695-6657

Thanks for showing interest, every time someone ask a thoughful question sparks new interst in the style. Please refer to the Northern Mantis forum where people may be clarify some of these issues.

Maximus Materialize!

[Internal Flow]

Has anybody read "Ying Shou Quan Fa" written by Guo Xian He? If so, could you tell me if it is good, what approximately are its contents etc?

[Ben Gash]

Yes, Mizhong is a derived style from various northern systems, mainly longfist systems,but as it predates bagua it can hardly be derived from it.
Track back and look at the various threads about various videos and books. Are you going to show someone the best fighting methods that took you years to learn in a $15 book? I mean for starters it's a public liabilty nightmare. Instead you put in some stuff that looks interesting and skillful to the uneducated to get them interested in the style.

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Ben,

i don't see how you can put everything into a book in any case. However, I would expect that the contents would follow basic concepts so that what is being shown can be applied.

I've put a post in the Northern Mantis section of the forum which goes into detail what I mean.

It would be more of a public liability nightmare if what is being presented as self defence is unworkable or misleading.

Maximus Materialize!

[ngokfei]

internal flow.

The orange book from Sifu Leung Shum is now out of print but some stores may still carry it. His new more indepth book being published by Tuttle will hopefully be out shortly. Check out his web site (www.yingjowpai.com). HIs tapes will give you alot.

Chin Woo curriculum used to require 10 sets to be learned before specializing in a particular style.
hand forms: Tam Tui, Gung Lek, Dai Gin, Jeet Kuen,

Sifu Shum only uses the Gung Lek and Jeet Kuen before teaching Eagle Claw Sets as they teach good foundation.

The book you mention from Sifu Gao/Gou in Beijing is a very good theory book. Lots of information on the tactics and theories of the style. My translated copy is kind of shakey but its useful. Also pick up the books from Lau Fat Mang's lineage. Good info in there as well. Also a Sifu Wing Kit Lam has been putting out eagle claw books in english. I think his web site is www.kungfumaster.hk.com. (http://www.kungfumaster.hk.com.) You can order them from there.

good luck in your training

eric Hargrove
ngokfei@juno.com

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Hi Ngok fei,

Do you know eagle claw? If so can you comment on the contents of the orange book?

i've posted some questions pertainng to the book in the Northern Mantis section of the forum.

Maximus Materialize!

[Internal Flow]

:) Thanks :)

All things return to it as to their home, but it does not lord it over them.
Thus it may be called "The Great"

[Shaolin-Do]

Does anyone know of a legit ying jow pai school in texas?
or anywhere to find all 108 locking hand techniques?

[illusionfist]

Jeff Hughes teaches Ying Jow Pai at the Central Texas Kung Fu Exchange in Austin. He's an authorized instructor under Lily Lau.

[ngokfei]

Original 108 locks. Personally from my research there is no such thing as the original or just having 108. The 108 number is a symbolic gesture to mean infinite.

I've only learned "80" of the structured locks taught by my teacher Leung Shum but have learned so many more than that from him and other teachers. "Locking" yourself into a set number or format is very limiting.

[Day Tong]

Shaolin Do -

I would suggest that you purchase a book called "The Secrets of Eagle Claw Kung-Fu Ying Jow Pai" written by Grandmaster Shum Leung.

This is a great book on Northern Eagle Claw Kung-Fu system that explains the basic foundation of Eagle Claw, history, fighting principles, locks #1 - 30 from the "108 Locking Techniques of Nok Fei" and much more.

You can order this book through Tuttle Publishing or check your local book stroes.

[Shaolin-Do]

already have it :)
you would be amazed at my kung fu library.
To be honest, even better than that is Dr. Yang Jwing Ming's Comprehensive applications of Shaolin Chin Na... regardless that it isnt eagle claw, there are TONS of locks... excellent book. many of the locking techniques are similar to eagle claw too...
As for learning under Leung Shum... Must be nice. :)

[Brad]

Dr. Yang's Chin-Na books are my favorites :cool:

[cha kuen]

I do remember seeing a book on the 108 locks by Lau Fat Mang.

[4 Dragons]

There is Bak Shaolin Eagle Claw here...
Scott Kimak
Harlingen, Texas
(956) 425-2468
http://jove.prohosting.com/~yingjow/

He is under Grandmaster Fu Leung. If you want to learn how to actually use Eagle Claw you will do well in that system.

Good luck,
4 Dragons

[ngokfei]

Eagle Claw is Eagle Claw. No difference. Just the emphasis of the instructor teaching.

You got forms nuts who can't fight their way out of a paper bag
You got fighters who "can fight" but don't use their "style". Chop Sakie. (in my opinion if it works fine)

In all its the individual not the style..

:D

[4 Dragons]

From what I understand Bak Shaolin Eagle Claw is a different system of Eagle Claw than the one taught by Grandmaster Lau. Fu Leung is the Grandmaster of Bak Shaolin Eagle Claw. His fighting team wins many medals on a regular basis. How well they conform to Eagle Claw when they fight, that I dont know. From what I have seen there are very few people that have the skill to use Kung Fu at it's highest levels. In my not so humble opinion there are not anywhere near as many Masters as people would like you to think and don't even get me started on the "Grandmasters".

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXbEmrSunpk&feature=related

Anyone here train this style?.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Is that suppose to be a "southern" eagle claw form? is there even a southern eagle claw?

[YouKnowWho]

The eagle claw is nothern. Never heard about southern eagle claw.

[TenTigers]

Lueng Shum teaches Ying Jow P'ai in NYC. It is Northern Eagle Claw/Fan Tzu.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I recall a "shaolin" eagle claw in Taiwan and Macao that was done with the thumb and first two fingers ( Index and middle), not like the full handed eagle claw of Leung.
But I don't think it was a southern system.

[stout]

There is such a thing as Southern Eagle Claw. From HK, developed from Northern Eagle Claw. Yes, I think the claw is more "dragon"

[once ronin]

This Lau fat Man forms.

[Ben Gash]

Yeah, the form in the video is northern Faan Tze Ying Jow Pai, as taught by Lau Fat Mang.
there is southern eagle, it's a Hakka system called golden eagle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usYAEyBC8zI&feature=related

[hakka jai]

Hi folks,
Golden eagle claw in Taiwan isnt Hakka eagle claw that i know of . HEC is based in TAI PO , NT in HK is more Hung garish with low wide stances & short bridge . The Sifu that i know of in HK are Chan koon wah & his teacher Au si Wing .

Regards
hakka jai :)

[Olaf]

The golden eagle boxing looks like a mix of hakka boxing and long fist

[BakShaolinEC]

that's the 5 leopards form from Northern Eagle Claw system.

only southern eagle claw i have ever seen was an old black and white film. and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khmBKx2fL0A


here is Taiwan 5 claw golden eagle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8_xL4TeoPo

[mickey]

Greetings,

The Southern Eagle Claw posted by BakShaolinEC appears to be form the same family of the form presented in the beginning of this movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gX1fT1DJkY

The form demonstrated during the opening credits is only half of the form (Wong Tao and Chi Kuan Chun may be deomnstrating the two man form). The complete form and applications was put on video by WTN productions back in the 1980's. The demonstrator, Woo Tchi Nyu, is a student of Grandmaster Chan Kwok Wai.

mickey

[diego]

Greetings,

The Southern Eagle Claw posted by BakShaolinEC appears to be form the same family of the form presented in the beginning of this movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gX1fT1DJkY

The form demonstrated during the opening credits is only half of the form (Wong Tao and Chi Kuan Chun may be deomnstrating the two man form). The complete form and applications was put on video by WTN productions back in the 1980's. The demonstrator, Woo Tchi Nyu, is a student of Grandmaster Chan Kwok Wai.

mickey

Thanks for the replies, I need a copy of this on dvd lol

[mickey]

Greetings diego,

The form represented in the movie is called Seven Styles Eagle Claw. I do not know if the WTN people are still in business. Here is their site:

http://www.secretsoftheorient.com/


mickey

[ShaolinDan]

Diego,
As a northern eagle claw practitioner, I admit I'm biased, so don't listen if you don't want to. However, if you're looking to learn eagle claw style, I would say do yourself a favor and learn northern eagle claw, not southern. Bias aside, it will at least be much easier to find a teacher... Also, though southern (or cinema) might be what you see in the movies, the (good) reputation of eagle claw comes from the northern style. :)
Good luck, anyway.

[soulfist]

Apparently Bruce Lee studied Eagle Claw!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjEwnHb34PE

[ShaolinDan]

Apparently Bruce Lee studied Eagle Claw!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjEwnHb34PE

Maybe. My guess is he just picked up the kick combo 'cause it looks cool. :)

[ngokfei]

Southern Eagle Claw is IMO just a branch of the Yue Fei Style coming out of Shandong Province but originally from either Anhui or Hubei provinces. (per 2 diverging histories)

Many often confuse the fact that todays modern Northern Eagle Claw is a blending of numerous Northern Long Fist based styles that tends to obscure the true foundational origins of the style which are Fanziquan (aka Bafanshou) and Yue Jia Duan Da Chui. check youtube for visual examples.

An interesting book mentions the connection of Yue Jia Quan being learned by one of the 5 Elders of Shaolin (Wu Mei/Ng Mui - today known as the founder or ancestor to styles such as Dragon and Wing Chun. And yes I know it has nothing to do with Lung Ying's form Called Ying Jow Mor Qiu.

So if you want to train old school eagle claw then pick up/learn the 1st of its 4 core sets- Sup Lo Hahng Kuen - 10 road walking fist.