Sup Gi Kao Dah

[Eddie]

Sorry guys to take up space with a silly quesiton, but I had some time on my hands and surfed the net. I came across some Choy Lay Fut sites and noticed some different translations for this form. I know it often can happenen that translations differ (even in my native language, you could translate phrases and it could be totaly different), so I was just a little qurious as to what the other schools call it.

I have seen translations from "Great escape form", "Cross Pattern Form" "Cross direction form" "Ten Direction form" etc etc. I suspect sup gee means Cross??

Anyhow, this is a friendly post to all Choy Lay Fut loving people like AlecM, Clfnole and SowChoy, Premier and all the others alike.

Have a good weekend you guys... Oh yes, you all into summer now I suppose, while we are starting to freeeeeze down here. Oh how I dont wish I was up noth sometimes :)

Eddie

[Fu-Pow]

Sup Ji Kow Dah Kuen...thats how we say it. It just means "Cross Pattern Hand Form". It is the crux of the Choy Lay Fut system. I'd say if Fu-Hok is a litmus test for Hung Gar practitioners, then Sup Ji is a litmus test for CLF practitioners. It is hard to do this form right and it takes incredible endurance. It is the longest set in the system... that I know of.

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/logo.gif
"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

[CLFNole]

From what I understand the chinese character for Sup Gee looks like a cross symbol. If you look at most of the CLF forms and Hung Gar for that matter the forms generally move in this type of pattern.

Peace.

[premier]

I don't know about the translation really, but Doc Fai Wong's book translates it as "Cross pattern of Kau-Da hand form". Cross pattern hand form would be just Sup ji kuen.

Yes. Sup Ji means Cross pattern, which means you move to four directions. Forward, backward and to the sides. Like CLFnole said, it's common in CLF, but I think the 8 directions (pa kwa) is more common.

[Fu-Pow]

What does "of Kau-Dah" mean?

Fu-Pow
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"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

[premier]

No idea.. Maybe it's some chinese fellow?

[YeutYatChapChoy]

Sup means 10. The numeral 10 is written as a "+", or called a "cross". Chi means pattern. Therefore cross pattern=ten pattern. This is common in almost every southern system that I have come across.
According to my sifu:
Kau=hook
dah=strike/hit
Kuen=fist

So there you have it.
Sup Chi Kau dah kuen.
Cross/10 pattern hook and strike fist

I was told the various poon kiew,cum sau,and other various bridging techniques were the connection that led to the control, or "hook", that led to the strike in the set. Given this, the set name seems obvious, due to the varied sticky hand/control maneuvers contained within the applications of this great set

[WongFeHung]

one of my Sifus showed me this form and it looked alot like Hung-Ga through the eyes of Choy Li Fut, I might be confusing it with another form, but from what he told me, Sup Ji Kau Da is one of Chan Heung's original sets and is the main set of Hung Sing CLF-it looked like Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen in the beginning and then it broke into the CLF form from hell! BTW, anyone going to DC? How bout you,Joe?

[WenJin]

Kau - Lean against/near
Da - Strike
Sup Ji - Crisscross/intersection as explained "+"

Therefore, Sup Ji Kau Da (Crisscross Close Striking/fighting).

Emphasises closeness in combat (thus the sticky feeling, it is actually getting in close and destroy at full speed and power) whilst relying on common CLF techniques. It also expounds elbow strikes. It contains quick and continuous techniques. It includes footwork skills as well including crossward attack, stealing(Tou Dan) and leaping steps(ti Deng), forcing steps (Bik Bo),etc...

Not that long I think Bak Mo Kuen is very long in its full formation.

[Sow Choy]

Sup Gee Kow Da

Does't matter how you spell it, but everyone has translated the same we do in the Lee Koon Hung branch. This form has the main techniques of Choy Lay Fut and is considered the main form of our style.

Eddie, great post, we should start more posts like this one. I hope everyone will pick up a copy of July issue of Kung Fu magazine, Master Li Siu Hung will be on the cover.

Ten Tigers, I will be going to Texas, for Taiji Legacy and San Francisco for the Eagle Cup. I would love to go to DC. Is it the tournament held by Wong's Jow Ga?

Peace to all my Southern Kung Fu brothers!

[CLFNole]

It's funny I have seen various CLF practitioners show this form and while there are a lot of similarities there are a lot of differences. Someone had mentioned earlier their form having elbow strikes, while the version I learned doesn't have any. The forms change a bit from generation to generation.

To Fu-Pow: In the Lee Koon Hung CLF branch the longest hand form is Bak Mo Kuen followed by Sup Gee Kow Da Kuen.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

What is Bak Mo Kuen? I've never heard of it.
"North Something Fist"?

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/logo.gif
"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

[premier]

I think it's white hair form or something.
here's a videoclip of it.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/choy/clf/video/tomaz-hand.mpg

well.. our version of it. there's a lot of difference between the branches when it comes to the forms.

[Fu-Pow]

The beginning of that form is f-ing awesome. How do you jump up from that kneeling position? The guy doing the form is obviously very good. I'll have to ask my sifu about that one. I've seen this set of videos before. Chen Yong Fa's students are very good!!!!! :D

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/logo.gif
"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

[alecM]

I think I’ve come in to this discussion a bit late, but here’s my little bit, the translation of kau as hook makes a lot of sense as kau being a similar sound to gau (their hooking technique) as used in the northern mantis s systems. In our school over here, we used to translate the name cross pattern grab and hit my sifu used the English word grab because he didn’t know the word hook so he used the words grab or catch. The Sup Ji Kao da form in our branch is also one of the most demanding empty hand forms to perform one of the main characteristics as well as the what we term gwa, wah, sow, biu (right hand gwa choi, left hand fu jow. right hand deng sow choi, ,right hand biu jong) striking combination there is also 180 degree sow gerk kick. The grabbing or hook technique comes after the biu jong by turning the stance in to a heun ma (twisting stance) you do what looks like two hand grabbing technique (like the lok kiu in Doc Fai Wong’s book) the hands are not actually grabbing but take the shape of monkey hand for hooking or latching onto the arm.

Saying is not boasting at all. These views and word s are mine, and do not represent my Sifu or school.

[alecM]

I ment to say 360 degree sow gerk.

Saying is not boasting at all. These views and words are mine, and do not represent my Sifu or school.

[premier]

well. your legs are crossed under you and you kind of just twist up from it and jump. yeah. that guy is pretty good ;)

[Eddie]

Bok Mo is longer than Sup Gee? Wow, I didnt know that. It must be very hard to perform that form then. Is it very much longer?

Sow Choy, when are you competing in that Taiji Legacy tournament? Good Luck to you and all your team mates!

BTW- Great Picture on the cover of the July mag. I particularly like the expression on your face :) I only saw it now. Please get me a copy when it comes out. That magazine is very hard to find here.

[This message was edited by Eddie on 05-28-01 at 08:27 AM.]

[cha kuen]

There's no one exact translation for Chinese characters. Many characters have many meanings to it. It depends on the person and their thoughts. That's why you get "THE ART OF WAR" with a ton of different translations. However, they should be similar and not totally off.