Sho Tang Kwok (Sho Tung Qua)

[Kempo]

Hi. Does anyone have any information on this form, like where it originated from, etc. I have seen it taught in kempo schools, even though I know it is a Shaolin form but the kempo people usually execute it differently.
Thanks

[Ted]

I believe the form originated in the Villari Self Defense System (Shaolin Kempo). However over the last 10-15 years, many of Villaris instructors/students broke away from him and started there own systems (ie: United Studios, Masters of Self Defense, etc). I've seen this form performed many different ways and it could be a pretty cool form. As far as it being Shaolin??????? I dont know if I would classify that way. Its more like a Japanese kata with some circular movements. Out of all of the forms in the Villari system, I think its one of my favorites. You can really let loose with the form and put spirit into it. The other form thats cool is Nenglis North and Nenglis South. Again depending on who you learn it from and who is performimg it, it could be a cool form.

I studied in the Villari Org for many years and started training in Shaolin Kungfu at the Shaolin Temple Overseas (Shifu Guolin) about 3 years ago. Nothing I leaned in the Villari system looks even close to what we do at the temple. While my training in the Villari Org gave me a very strong foundation its nothing like the foundation I've rebuilt with Shaolin (mind,body and spirit).


Where do you train?


Good luck.

Amituofu

[Kempo]

I study within the kempo martial arts dojo, but had started my training with the Villari organization (got to yellow belt). Then that particular location was taken over by my current school. Our system falls more under the Nick Cerio, Walter Godin (Hawaiian) lineage, but we still have techniques/forms incorporated from the Villari system. Both Master Rich and Shihan Nick, who run our system / schools, started in the Villari System. We still teach forms such as Sho Tung Qua and Swift Tigers, as well as the 10 point blocking system.
As for the form, Sho Tung Qua, I have seen the form performed by one of our high ranking black belts who has also had a lot of training in the Chinese martial arts (tai chi, mantis, etc.), and it is the same form basically but executed differently.
As for the forms Nenglis North and South, are those kempo forms? I haven’t heard of them before (but I’ll ask my instructors if they know of it).
Thanks

[Ted]

I dont mean to say anything bad about kempo (villari,ussd,cerio,etc) systems but most of it is all made up. Like I said before I studied in the system for a long time and trained with some of the systems most talented but the one thing that keeps resurfacing in my mind is the history's just don't seem to jive. The system is a good all around system with a lot of material. If you come across a good instructor (who doesn't just want to sell you a black belt program) you can learn a great deal.

As far as some of the forms go, I've heard that a few of the bigger named people who left the Villari org (dont want to mention any names) and started there own systems removed a lot of the black belt forms because they couldn't validate there authenticity. This may be why you or your instuctors havent heard of some forms. Does your system still teach combinations? What forms do they teach?


Good luck in your journey.


Amituofu

[Kempo]

It’s true that a lot of the history of kempo is obscured, but the system is very effective (self-defense). It is a blend art of various styles. However, there are a lot of schools / instructors, as you said, who just want to make money out of it or who don’t care about the art itself. I am fortunate that my school is not like that.

Yes, we teach the # combinations, 1-26, as well as other techniques that we call kempo’s. Some of the forms we probably don’t have in our system, but not because we couldn’t validate their authenticity, but because they didn’t work or weren’t practical. The forms that one learns in kempo, they should be able to explain what they are doing in the form, because the forms / katas are techniques that are grouped together. We basically kept what works.

We teach 1-6 kata, 1-6 pinans (what we call white tigers), cat 3, stature of the crane, Hon Suki, Sho Tung Qua, Lin Wan Kune, and Swift Tigers.

Some other forms that I have heard of, but am not sure if we teach them, are: Invisible Wall, 4 Dragons of the East Winds. Have you heard of these forms, or others that I haven’t mentioned?

Thanks

[Ted]

Kempo

Yeah I agree that the system can be a good self defense system however a good majority of the schools teaching the system today are out to make money and have lost track of the art itself. Most of the schools these days are run by 1st or 2nd degrees that got there belt in 2 or 3 years because they joined some black belt club or instructors college and paid some crazy fees. But the system, if taught by a good instructor is a good system.

As far as your curriculum goes, it sounds like the one that was taught at the school i used to attend. 1-6 kata, 1-5 pinion (I think you mentioned 6), Honsuki, Sho tung Quo, Swift Tigers, 2 man fist set, Nengli North and Nengli South, Invincible wall, 5 dragons face the four winds, Tai Sing Mon, Tiger, Dragon, Snake, Immortal Monkey, and combinations 1-108 (I think, I dont know if anyone actually has that high I used to have up to 40), and Kempo punch techniques.

Well I ranted enough.

Good luck

[Kempo]

Thanks for your input. At what rank were the following forms taught in the Villari system: Nengli North Nengli South Immortal Monkey 5 Dragons face the 4 Winds Invicible Wall

[Ted]

Nengli North is sometimes taught at 2nd and south at third, however I've seen them taught solely at third. Sho Tung Qua at 2nd, Swift tigers at third, invincible wall at 4th I believe, and 5 dragons face the four winds at 5th. I'm not sure about immortal monkey but it was taught at a seminar. Train Hard