Iron Kim rides again!!!!!! hahahahaha

[IronKim]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah ah


http://www.chungmoodoe-il.com/stretch.jpg

http://www.chungmoodoe-il.com/csndoe.jpg

http://www.8ma-health.com/NIK_Colorado_Palgae.jpg

http://www.8martialartsforhealth.com/chongbong.jpg




Chung Moo Doe
Leader:
John C. Kim, aka Chong Su Nim "Iron" Kim

Alternate Names:
Chung Moo Quan
Oom Yung Doe
8 Martial Arts for Health

The following information has been provided by former members of Chung Moo Doe:
Description of the Group:
This is a personality cult using a chain of martial arts schools as its "front". People, particularly men, are lured into the group thinking it's a martial arts school, and they're going to learn about self defense, getting in shape, etc. Instead, they're subjected to mind control techniques to essentially get them to worship Chung Moo's founder, John C. Kim. Exhorbitant lesson fees are charged, providing Kim and his people with large amounts of money. In 1996, Kim and several of his top people were convicted of conspiracy to defraud the United States of America.

Behaviors:
Students of Chung Moo were pressured to move in together, and keep the "respect line" (the way we treated one another in school) the same on the outside as well as inside the school. People critical of Chung Moo, including parents, were to be shunned and kept in the dark about what really went on. Students, and particularly instructors from what I could see, were strongly urged to wear their hair and dress as John C. Kim did. Also, there was a general disapproval of dressing well among the students, as that meant you had money for clothes that could have gone towards John C. Kim.

Dietary restrictions weren't a big thing in my experience with the group, though eating hot soup and hot Korean food was encouraged during times of sickness, rather than consulting a physician.

Sleep was highly regulated in Chung Moo. On more than one occasion instructors urged students to sleep only a few hours a night, and boasted how little sleep they themselves needed. It was said that the Chung Moo forms (martial arts movements) could replace the human body's need for sleep.

Finances and money were a huge focus of Chung Moo; it's almost impossible to overstate the importance of money in the organization. Quite simply, past a certain point, you were expected to hand over all your extra money for Chung Moo lessons and teachings. Cash only, and it was disrespectful to ask for receipts, or copies of membership contracts.

Students were encouraged to spend all their free time either at the school or in the company of other Chung Moo members. Association with people not in the group was discouraged. Multiple jobs were often encouraged to help students pay the lesson fees, limiting their time even more.

Chung Moo required lots of an individual's time, not only with regular lessons, but special private lessons, belt courses, etc. These were strenuous workouts followed by indoctrination sessions. Once, I recall we had to hold extremely strenuous body positions, zoning ourselves out to block out the pain, and the instructors turned out the lights and had us all count out loud in a droning, monotone voice, putting us into an altered state of consciousness.

It was unthought of for people to act on their own without consulting instructors. College was a decision that was frowned upon.

People definitely had to report what they were thinking and doing, and the activities of others, to the instructors. In one instance, I was forced to admit in front of fellow students that I was a virgin. Instructors constantly badgered people with questions about their personal lives, finances, etc., and it was easily obvious that choosing not to answer would result in ostracization or ejection from the group, or, if you were a longtime member, verbal harassment and even physical assaults.

You were praised and rewarded for bringing down more money to the school and for appearing to try hard. If the instructors perceived you weren't trying hard, or weren't bringing in enough money, you were subjected to humiliation and beatings.

People were not at all encouraged to think as individuals. School always had to come first. Whenever an individual thought was expressed, "watch what you say" was the common response. Any semblance of "talking back" to instructors was met with harshly.

Chung Moo had extremely rigid rules of conduct; when to bow, how to bow, how to act, how to speak, what to do. The rules and rituals overshadowed everything you did in a Chung Moo school, and often what you did outside.

Students were expected to be totally subservient to John C. Kim, even if they never actually met him (like myself--I never met Kim). We were supposed to bow to his picture, bring down more money for the school on Kim's birthday (said to be April 1st), and pay towards lessons to show respect to Kim. We were trained to be dependent upon the group, often indoctrinated that Chung Moo was the highest expression of what it could be to be a person in this life.

Information:
It was said Kim was the "champion of all Asia", when no such title has ever existed. Claims were made about what Chung Moo could do (cure disease,etc.) that have never been backed up. Prices for the lessons weren't openly advertised. Forms and movements were held "secret", only to be seen by those who'd paid the high lesson prices.

We were certainly kept quite busy, so we really didn't have time to think. With keeping members from anti-cult information, it really didn't come out about what Chung Moo really was until a couple of years after I'd left, so that really doesn't apply. However, we definitely were encouraged to look down on those who'd left the group.

Information was strictly controlled in the organization. Claims about Kim's near-supernatural abilities were never disclosed up front, only after a period of indoctrination. Instructors strictly controlled which students knew what about the organization and what it truly required. Students knew the least, instructors knew more, head instructors knew even more, and regional instructors knew more still. There was a near-worship for people above you, with the ultimate worship reserved for Kim.

Spying was encouraged. I was involved a few times in bringing to instructors' attention the fact that other students were deviating from Chung Moo principles. The doctrine, not personal relationships, mattered most.

Instructors encouraged certain students to "pal around" with certain others. The "blue literature", the standard Chung Moo pamphlet, was held nearly as important as a Bible to a Christian.

People definitely suffered after having confessed things to instructors. When an instructor asked something, you had no choice whether to refuse. Information said in private could be made public any time, and was. I was present when several students were embarrassed this way.

[IronKim]

Thought:
An us-vs.-them mentality was indeed prevalent at Chung Moo. The outsiders were the "goofy ones", where we really knew what was going on. You were either in Chung Moo or out of it, no in-between. People's relevancy was judged based on whether or not they had "Chung Moo".

Loaded language was perhaps the most startling aspect of Chung Moo to those not part of the group. Very strict speech patterns dominated, such as "Be all right to ask yourself?" when asking a question to an instructor, "more faster ways", when wanting something done quickly, "more goofy ways" to describe a person's actions, etc.

No independent thoughts were encouraged, only thoughts towards Chung Moo and how you could better your life in it, mainly by bringing down more money.

Thought-stopping techniques such as meditation and deep breathing were used, also the Chung Moo-famous position-holding, where you held several positions, sometimes for minutes at a time. It hurt so much you zoned out, causing a halt of all critical thinking.

Critical opinions about John C. Kim were not only seen as illegitimate, but they could result in your being beaten if you voiced them.

Chung Moo had all the answers to life's questions. Nothing -- not religion, not family -- could take the place of having your life right in Chung Moo.

Emotional:
The rigidity present in the organization allowed for very little emotional expression. Even after an instructor hit you and you were in pain, you had to "suck it up" and not show emotion.

Students were always at fault for what they did. A few times, I was beaten and badly hurt by instructors, who always justified their actions by saying to me that I wasn't trying hard enough, which is why they hurt me. They never admitted any mistakes.

Guilt was widely used in Chung Moo, particularly when comparing what we'd been through in our lives to supposedly what John C. Kim had been through in his. (There were claims Kim had lived in the mountains for seven years, living with animals, etc.)

The only thing that rivalled the importance of money in Chung Moo was the use of fear. You were in a state of low-grade terror nearly every moment you were in a school, thinking about whether this was the night an instructor would single you out to be hurt. This released adrenaline constantly into the blood, which produced something like a low-level stress disorder, further inhibiting your critical thinking.

Emotional highs and lows were very prevalent. Of course, outward display had to be controlled, but inwardly, when the instructors got down on you, you felt terrible, but to receive praise was like receiving a blessing directly from God.

Students, including myself, were regularly forced to confess "sins" to the instructors and the rest of the class.

Chung Moo indoctrinated people into thinking their minds and bodies would essentially turn to mush if they ever left Chung Moo. We'd be lost in the forest with no guide.

Statement from former member (posted 3-7-00)



Front Organizations:
National Association of Martial Arts Educators (NAMAE)

"Traditional Asian Health Methods" seminars

Other Sources of Information:
"Chung Moo Quan: The Cult & The Con."
Reported by Pam Zekman. WBBM-TV, Chicago. 1989.

Kahn, Ric. "Chung Moonies? Critics Call Martial Arts Club a Cult of Violence and Greed." Boston Phoenix, Oct. 25, 1991.

Vogel, Jennifer. "Be True to Your School: The Dark Side of the Moo." City Pages (Minn/St. Paul), Apr. 1, 1992.

Martial Arts and Cults
"Philosophy" page at Matt Thornton's "Straight Blast Gym" web site


Links Related to Chung Moo Doe:
Chung Moo Members Indicted


Web Sites of Chung Moo Doe:
Arlington, MA School of Oom Yung Doe / 8 Martial Arts for Health

Bagwa Chung

Chung Moo Doe On the Web

The United Martial Arts Center

Kum Gung Quan

Pittsburgh Centers for Martial Arts and Wellness

School of Oom Yung Doe

Martial Arts Defends Against Back Pain

Eight Martial Arts for Health


Articles Related to Chung Moo Doe:
Cult Formation and Stability

"Martial Arts and Medicine," Chung Moo Doe Newsletter, Winter 1998

"Chung Moo Doe: Bagwa Chung," Chung Moo Doe Web Page, 3/17/98

"All About Chung Moo Doe," Chung Moo Doe Web Page, 3/17/98

"The Continueing Controversy Surrounding Chung Moo," 2/8/98

"Chung Moo Doe or Quan," 12/30/97

"Cultist Mea Culpa The Real Truth Real Tai Chi Training: Are You Getting Your Money's Worth," POWERLinesChicago Magazine, Nov 1997

"Man Sentenced in Tax Fraud Scheme Involving Martial Arts Schools," The Naperville Sun, 8/31/97

"The Cult in the Quan, The Fall of a Martial Arts Magnate Parts I-II-III," Martial Arts Pro, May 1997

"Martial Arts School Chief Found Guilty In Tax Scam," Chicago Tribune, 12/10/96

"Martial Art Expert Tried To Kick Taxes," Chicago Tribune, 9/10/96

"Chung Moo Doe is Chung Moo Quan, Kim's Arrest Report," 12/26/95

"Chung Moo Doe is Chung Moo Quan, John C. Kim Alias Jack Park," 12/26/95

"Martial Art School Faces Tax Fraud Charges," Cult Awareness Network News, May 1995

"Interview, Pam Zekman," Chicago Life, July/August 1992

"Fourth Amend Complaint agnst John C. Kim," Ill Att Gen, 6/5/92

"Be True To Your School," City PagesTwin Cities, MN, 4/1/92

"Advertisement - A Way To Find Happiness," Daily Herald, 3/24/92

"Chung Moo - Advertisement," Naperville Sun , 3/20/92

"Police Probe Possible Martial Arts School Link to Man's Death," Cult Awareness Network News, 12/91

"Advertisement - Thank You Chung Moo Quan," Misc. Yellow Page Ads Dallas, Houston,Tampa, 10/28/91

"Chung Moonies? Critics call Martial-Arts Club A Cult Of Violence and Greed," The Boston Phoenix , 10/25/91

"Officials Probe Death," 10/25/91

"Murder Probe Hits Martial Arts School," Chicago Daily Herald, 10/12/91

"Martial Arts School Link to Body Found in Forest Probed," Chicago Tribune, 10/12/91

"Police Seek Link Between Death, Martial Arts School," Arlington Heights Daily Herald, 10/12/91

"Authorities Identify Body Found Last Week in Woods," Arlington Heights Daily Herald, 10/11/91

"Martial Arts School's Top Brass Charged With Tax Fraud," Arlington Heights (Chi) Daily Herald, 4/13/91

"Police Aid Feds in Karate School Probe," Naperville Sun, 9/7/90

"Ad Raises Woman's Ire Over Martial Arts School," The Lisle Sun, 1/18/90

"Cult Charges," The Lisle Sun, 1/9/90

"Attorney General's Lawsuit Targets Martial Arts Business," Daily Herald, 11/9/89

"Group to Monitor Karate Schools, Ex-members Speak," Daily Herald, 12/10/89

"CBS News Transcripts of Video," Nov. 2-7, 89

"CBS News Transcripts of Video," Nov. 2-7, 89

"Sign on the Dotted Line," Inside Karate, June 1988

[ewallace]

Thanks KC?

[Ryu]

This looks like a job for Spiderman!!!!!




..................... sorry. Recently saw the movie.

Ryu

[African Tiger]

Ride 'em cowboy..... :rolleyes:

[dezhen2001]

one of those links made my d@mn PC freeze :(:mad: Still funny though :D

Hey IronKim - any relation to Ashida Kim? :D

david

[Qi dup]

I can't believe that Chung Moo Doe crap. What a crock of sh!t.

[KC Elbows]

eWallace,
Not me.

[PaulLin]

I would say there are many of this kind of fraudies out there(make me think of Shyun's orginization of 8 step). I think you should put this message every where so that people can judge and see for themselves and realized what are they involved in with. There are too many these criminals out there that has suck the potential martial artists' blood dry.

[MonkeySlap Too]

What's the story with Shyun?

In any case, it'll be hard to top John C Kim for outright BS. They have been a joke for decades where I come from.

Hey Paul, are you living in LA now?

Send me an e-mail at Visajoe@hotmail.com. I think the last time I saw you was in the stands at the Altanta Olympics Judo competition when your dad spotted me going up the stairs.

[Gabriel]

Hey, I went to this site: http://www.chungmoodoe-il.com ,and checked out the founder link. Secret Oral tradition. And billions of practitioners..spending his time in the mountains with the animals. Oh, and the Chinese champion award. :rolleyes:

oh, i found this under origin and history



"Today throughout the world billions of individuals practice Moo Doe for the tremendous benefits in their daily lives, enhancing health, communication, family and business relationships, friendships and much more. "

are these guys for real? WTF. :confused:

Gabriel

[kohai]

l ron hubbard-the martial arts years
scary

[PHILBERT]

First pic caption:

And we do the hokey pokey and we turn ourself around. Thats what it's all about.

Second:
Just a little closer and I'll have that bug dead.

Third:
Hot women coming close, better strike a fearsome pose!

Fourth:
Tag, your it!

[MA fanatic]

This organization had already been closed down once in IL. Now they are making their way back. The arrests and school closures followed a special report by reporter Pam Zachman on CBS. Zachman had studied this cult and had her own investigating reporters in the schools collecting interviews and information for a couple of years before airing a week long special, shown twice a day. John C. Kim was arrested in CA while his students (one of which happened to be my friend at the time) were told that he's in Korea meditating, practicing and running schools the size of KMART. He was told to have been a Champion of All Asia winning matches which were to the death. He was also described as having the power to float threw air, take form of any animal and move like any animal, and manipulate his energy. I have met with some Chumg Moo Quan guys. Trust me, they're brainwashed as hell. All believe Chung Moo Quan will provide them with fountain of youth, health, and amazing self defense power. All I met refused to spar (claiming that "fighting is not fun and we are afraid to hurt you"). All I met talked bad about every other style of martial art. And, all I met refused to even look at techniques from other systems. Once a friend of mine got humiliated and scolded when I came to pick him up from my Kung Fu school. He was told that hanging out with me was a bad influence and desrespectfull to his CMD instructors. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even be allowed to look at a Chung Moo Quan class unless you sign a release form to get you through the gate (at least that is how it was in 1989 right before the special reports and warning aired). I think as a martial arts community, we should warn and protect inocent victims of such cults. Keep in mind, people turned over their life savings, were broken away from homes, and had their familie's shattered by these individuals.
MA fanatic

[MA fanatic]

I think we should keep these threads going. New generations of martial artists are growing up and they have no idea of the dangeres martial arts can pose. I love martial arts and have been an active practitioner for 17 years now. These types of people scare me because they pray on vulnerable people installing a false sense of security, stealing their money, spreading flad out lies, and possibly shattering their relationships with their families.
MA fanatic

PS As bad as these articles about CMQ CMD sound, the stories I heard about what went on in those schools are worse. Like I said, that was in 1989, but judging by their web sites, seems like nothing has changed.

[MA fanatic]

I'd be very interested in any information on names of CMQ members indicted. Would also be interested in any more information on where I can obtain articles writen about CMQ exposing the organization.
MA fanatic
IronKim: Thanks for starting this thread. I'd do it on other martial arts forums as well. Every martial artist or anyone interested in martial arts should see this.

[GAZ]

I would like to know is this sort of thing only in the USA or do you get it in the UK aswell?

[internal mind]

GAZ

Exploitive cults are everywhere and as old as prostitution. China's history is riddled with them. For some reason Korea has exported more than its's share of cult figures to the US. If there is money and sex to be had you will find cult leaders. Oh yeah, you should hear the details about how Kim had sex with a lot of the wives of his instructors under the explaination that he was fixing their body problems. This guy has left a lot of damage in his wake. Now, ever since he got ***** slapped by the US government, they are going to great lengths to try to look legit and keep him out of future legal harms way.

[Turiyan]

"50 steps laughs at 100 steps"

[MA fanatic]

I have spoken to some of these guys. They wont even listen to reason. Most would just say you're jealous of their skill. A friend of mine who belonged to the cult told me, "my regional head instructor said that everyone outside chung moo quan are the walking dead." How does one deal with that reasoning?
MA fanatic

[KC Elbows]

MA,
As a member of the "walking dead"(former 1st degree in cmq), I can tell you I've never felt more alive.

A few of us former members have spoken about this, and we're under the impression that Kim taught a core group his real stuff, which doesn't seem to have been that special, and everything else taught since has just been one fake form after another, with a few misunderstood pieces of kung fu thrown in for good measure.

Turiyan, exactly what did you mean by that? Is that something they quoted on their website?

[Nick Monticello]

Some where I have the court file with the convictions, but I can't find it right now.

All the ones listed in THIS court document did time though.

I can't fit the whole thing on here, so i posted it on RD's forum at

http://pub4.bravenet.com/forum/fetch.php?id=9784989&usernum=281840285

[NorthernMantis]

No one listen to that Turyian character as he is a 1st class troll!

[Brad]

I don't know what he's talking about anyway :D

[Black Jack]

These guys used to be in my neck of the woods, IL, for years, they are as stated, a dangerous cult, not dangerous as in bad ass, far from it, dangerous to those unaware of what they really are.

IMHO they should all be shut down as fast as possible.

[MA fanatic]

Yes, these schools still exist. Actually, on some of their sites, the members who were mentioned in the posted article (the ones who were convicted) are depicted in photographs conducting recent seminars. So, yes, they are not in prison now. John C. Kim is still revered as a supreme being. The problem here is, no one will ever tip their students. Why? Because these people are crazy enough to come after you, hurt you, and hurt your family. In the early 80s, Chung Moo Quan students were asked to attack and injure students of local martial arts schools. I'd be carefull with these people.
MA fanatic

[MA fanatic]

KC:
I am well familiar with the school, its teachings, forms (Ship Pal Gey, Tung nun, katas, bagwa sparring, long daze, short daze, etc. etc. etc.), and self defense techniques. I have also done extensive research into the history of CMQ. Let me assure you, the style never existed. John C. Kim must have had some core training. The techniques he taught were identical to those taught in various internal and external kung fu systems, Kong Su (Korean system), and some Hapkido. Otherwise it was a mishmash of techniques brought in by instructors who, after researching, I found out had extensive history in other martial arts. John C. Kim, though perhaps a decent martial artist in his youth, was no better than any martial arts instructor. The competitions in Asia never existed. There were however logal tournaments in various provinces in China which were called, "Tournament for Champion of All Asia." The rest of the information about people he fought and techniques he used to kill people in these death matches were pure fairy tales. He also never possessed the wei-gone-boe, nei-gone-bope, and qwei gong-sulbope (I apologize for the spelling), skills they told students he possessed. It was one huge scam. As for his fighting skills, I can see the guy being good. I can see the guy having some skill. But, that makes him no different or more skilled than any Kung Fu master instructor on this forum. I suspect the higher the instructors were in the highierarchy, the less they new of martial arts, and the more they served as bussiness co conspirators. Some local instructors were terrible martial artists (but good sales people). Others were good fighters, but would on occasion mention that they had over 10 years experience in Kung Fu, Kempo, Kenpo, and even Kyokushinkai Karate (such as one instructor in Elk Grove Village IL.).
MA fanatic

[KC Elbows]

MA,
You're preaching to the choir with me. I'm originally from the chicago area, that's where I went to their schools.

However, initially, the school taught kong su, that's it. There's even a very old brochure, not part of the blue literature, predating that cr@p, but it was titled kong su, and it explained the schools system. I'm pretty sure that was Kim's area of expertise, but, judging by his students, he was no paragon. In any case, all of the later stuff(from the eighties on) was a mish mosh of useless or misunderstood movement.

Remember Tom MaGee? Most of the time I was in the moo, he was my instructor. From what I've heard, he had quite a bit of previous martial experience, and he was the one fighter in the higher ranks that I saw while in the moo.

Turiyan,
The reason I asked for clarification was that the referrence you made was not very clear. Who were you applying it to? CMQ? Us? Or was it a quote you found in one of their web sites? If you meant to apply it to us commenting on CMQ, I'm wondering what familiarity you have with CMQ, as I, to my knowledge, have the most experience with them of those on the forum, and have had substancial contact with a number of former higher belts who were able to confirm that the silliness that took place up to first degree black belt continued well up into fifth degree. Imagine, fifth degrees who do not have sparring/fighting experience.

BTW, the nomad cultures had reached the appex of their expansion. To maintain it, they had to adopt the manners of a culture like China, although, for that matter, the nomads also adopted many persian traits. How come your sig doesn't equally blast the traits of the persians that contributed to the nomad's "fall"? Just curious.

[MA fanatic]

KC Elbows,
I apologize if I sounded preachy. My post was meant more for those unfamiliar with the organizations. Yes, I do remember Tom (I think he later became a regional instructor). He was actually pretty fast and powerful. And yes, his movements were light years ahead of most other instructors. There were other CMQ instructors (such as instructor Bill in the Elk Grove area) who had over 10 years of Karate, Kung Fu, boxing, and kempo experience. I do believe that John C. Kim may have had some skill. At least, he could throw a side kick (I have seen many pictures of him doing that). Some forms resembled some of the Kung Fu forms I later saw in Kung Fu. The Kong Su katas were a mish mash of blocks and puches.

Just for curiousity, what ever happened to the old CMQ instructors (are they still around? are those new guys running local CMQ schools?)? What ever happened to John C. Kim? How can these people legaly continue to get away with such practices.

I had an opportunity to meet one of the instructors of CMQ in graduate school. He remembered me. We talked and he confirmed all the stories of sleep deprevation, living together, group think, and isolation from families. I truly feel sorry for anyone still involved in that organization.
MA fanatic

[KC Elbows]

Tom Magee, among others, helped take the fall for Kim in the tax case, though kim still served time. Magee did something like 5 years, got out, and swore off cmq, from my understanding.

I also was informed that kim blamed it all on some of the other higher belts who took the fall for him in the tax case. Before they got out of the penn, he allegedly had higher belts show students tapes of them doing form poorly. The tapes were purportedly the end of long marathon workout sessions, but were used to discredit the instructors, basically then telling the students that everything they had learned was wrong.

RD might actually have copies of those tapes. I haven't seen them, but it would, IMO, be typical of the organization that I knew.

[Volcano Admim]

IronKim, i know who you are and i will expose you

[MA fanatic]

KC Elbows,
That's pretty disturbing. So Tom took the fall and Kim's schools are still running? What do you mean he showed students tapes of higher belts (as the called them) doing forms poorly? You mean he showed tapes of poorly done forms to students to show them that those particular higher belts were imposters? I'm not very literate when it comes to law, but how is it that after so much media attention, IRS investigation, and people actually going to jail (including the head grandmaster), that these schools still operate?

Its insteresting, I remember watching the Pam Zechman special reports on CBS, and seeing all these regional instructors try to explain why CMQ charges thousands for lessons and Kim's claims of being "champion of all Asia." Even now on their web site they make attempts to explain, offering names, who it was that Kim fought, and when he fought them.
MA fanatic

[Nick Monticello]

They were all guilty. What Kim did, was blame his regional and national instructor's that got convicted, for following his orders to commit crimes.

Mc gee deserves no sympathy he was a guilty cult master like the rest.

[jarretw]

I have read some statements by former students and instructors about the
"cult" of Oom Yung Doe.I have been a student in Boston area for 4 years.I
have never witnessed any of the behavior in fellow students and instructors
at all levels,local and national,described here.There is dedication to our
training and a protocol for conducting ourselves in school.We do show our
instructors respect,but it is not a blind devotion.I do not know of anyone who
describes the school as a cult that uses mind-control over people.

[IronKim]

You are a wise student and prudent disciple of the Oom Yung Doe way. Follow your own Sul Kong Bope and you will find the path of right and wrong, good and evil and the true Ba Gwa path.

Iron Kim

[Faruq]

When I was 11 years old, I went to a Chung Moo Quan school in Schaumburg under an instructor Paul and an instructor John for like 6 months, before we moved back to Chicago. Instead of giving you different colored belts, they'd die sections of your white belt black at each level until it was black, then different elements of your Gi. I got to first section (the equivalent of a yellow belt anywhere else). I was really lucky we moved, because I saw the chain of schools being investigated for being a cult on local Chicago-area news some 20 years later as an adult. Also, my moms didn't have money for classes for some of the 6 months, which was another lucky break I guess. The instructors told us stories of Master Kim doing incredible feats, and having lived in a tiger's cave for several years to develop some of his forms. When we asked how'd he keep the tiger from eating him, they told us master Kim would shoot Ki out of his palms to keep the tiger away.

[Royal Dragon]

I actually believe the story. I think Kim was on the run from Korean officials, and was homeless in the cave. the "Tiger" was actually a cub, and when it got big enough to eat Kim, he ran away to the US to indoctrinate poeople into giving him millions.

[IronKim]

they'd die sections of your white belt black at each level until it was black,

nice spelling



hen different elements of your Gi. I got to first section (the equivalent of a yellow belt anywhere else). I was really lucky we moved, because I saw the chain of schools being investigated for being a cult on local Chicago-area news some 20 years later as an adult. Also, my moms didn't have money for classes for some of the 6 months, which was another lucky break I guess. The instructors told us stories of Master Kim doing incredible feats, and having lived in a tiger's cave for several years to develop some of his forms. When we asked how'd he keep the tiger from eating him, they told us master Kim would shoot Ki out of his palms to keep the tiger away.

all kung fu lineages have legends and stories:rolleyes:

[stainlesschi]

sounds like a crazy club to me,more alike to the religous cults and anyone still there is mental...
how did he manage to brainwash his students

[Faruq]

The best thing on their webpage was the row of pictures of Kim in his white patent leather shoes, white polyester pants, white sweater and a fro (WTF???) doing all these crazy Buddhist mystic poses.

[IronKim]

The best thing on their webpage was the row of pictures of Kim in his white patent leather shoes, white polyester pants, white sweater and a fro (WTF???) doing all these crazy Buddhist mystic poses.

that the best you can come up with, it shows you have no respect and probably no skill and ur teacher has failed u

[IronKim]

sounds like a crazy club to me,more alike to the religous cults and anyone still there is mental...
how did he manage to brainwash his students

there were some problems with some of the branches but that has changed and oom yung doe is much better for it

[IronKim]

that the best you can come up with, it shows you have no respect and probably no skill and ur teacher has failed u

http://www.grandmasterswingchun.com/swift.htm

heres a real kung fu master i like the zoolander shots at the bottom :rolleyes: