The real differences

[scotty1]

Posted on the Taiji forum by me, but receiving very little traffic:

"I am really quite confused as to the difference between internal and external styles, other than aesthetically.

It seems to me that both achieve power through the correct body mechanics and positioning, and relaxed strength.

So how are they different, really? What is it that makes what an internal stylist does 'internal'?

I, as an external stylist, try to use all my body in a relaxed fashion in order to transfer my energy from myself into my opponent.

How does this differ from what you do?

Sorry if this sounds like an ignorant question, its just that I questioned my own definition of an internal style today and couldn't really answer what made them different.

The definition is using 'internal power' manifested through your body, ie. externally.

So what is it coming from the inside to the outside? How is 'internal power' manifested through the stylist? And if it is purely through relaxed body mechanics, than what is 'internal power'? Energy, chi, intent?

The goals of an external stylist are to :

1. Stay relaxed
2. Use efficient body mechanics and positioning

Internal stylists share these two goals - but they must have additional ones as well. What are they, and are these what defines the style as internal? "

I'm having trouble expressing myself here.

[Shadow Dragon]

Article about it below:

Martial artists divide martial arts into many categories--much as this site categorizes different styles. Besides simple alphabetical sorting, you can divide martial arts along a number of axes: Chinese vs. Japanese vs. Korean, Asian vs. European vs. American, striking vs. grappling, hard vs. soft, or internal vs. external. Most of these distinctions are self-explanatory--an art might have started in the Shaolin Temple of China, or in the mountains of Korea, or in the streets of Brazil. An art includes striking techniques, or it doesn't--in which case it probably is made up of seizing, grasping, manipulating, and throwing moves. Some distinctions are harder to see at first glance.

One such distinction is that between internal and external martial arts. External martial arts refer to those that rely on the body's external attributes, such as muscular strength and rigidity, skin and bone toughness, or technique speed and power to be effective. Most striking arts, including karate, muay thai, or tae kwon do, lie within the "external" category. Karate practitioners used to toughen their knuckles by striking a makiwara, or striking post, until heavy calluses formed on their hands. Tae kwon do stylists pride themselves on breaking boards, tiles, and bricks with forceful kicks. Muay thai fighters often lack feeling in their shins, the result of using their lower legs as clubs against their opponents.

External martial artists use force against force--a shotokan karate outside block, for example, is more an attack against the opponent's limb than a means to avoid the attack. When performing the block, shotokan practitioners are told to tense the arm muscles at the point of impact to better absorb the shock and transfer damage to the opponent. Contrast this with a kung fu open-hand parry, which follows the line of an incoming punch, catches up in speed, then actually speeds up the attacking fist, except in a direction away from the kung fu stylist. In order to perform this "block", the kung fu practitioner must be relaxed and loose--definitely not tense.

Internal martial arts focus on the martial artist's internal attributes, such as focus, timing, awareness, and precision of technique. The slow movement of a tai chi master's forms might seem inadequate for combat--however, when needed, the master can speed up his movements to match that of his opponent, blending with the attacks and using the attacker's body weight and momentum against himself. Aikido, with its emphasis on blending with the attacker's movement and guiding him or her into the technique, is a classic example of an internal martial art. The following table describes some attributes of both categories:
Internal vs. External
Internal External
Blending with an attack Stopping an attack
Yielding Struggling
Power comes from within Power comes from outside
Relaxed Tense
Fluid Defined
Slow forms Fast kata
Finesse Power
Indirect Direct
Circular Linear
Accepting what is Fighting against it
Acknowledging the
limitations of the self Denying any vulnerabilities
Winning without
fighting is best Destroying your opponent

This list can go on and on, but the distinctions are clear. Neither type of martial art is "better" than the other--both can be equally effective in the same situations.

No discussion of internal martial arts is complete without the notion of chi. The pinnacle of internal martial arts is the cultivation of chi, the mystical "Force" that powers all things in the universe. Although the discussion of chi (or ki, or qi) takes an entire article, let it suffice to say that this mystical energy is the focus and center of many martial arts. Whether it truly exists or not is still debatable, but as the foundation for many martial arts styles and practices of medicine, its perceived effects are profound.

I postulate that all martial artists evolve from external to internal, regardless of the art they study. People who study arts commonly accepted as "internal", such as aikido or tai chi, start out merely understanding the techniques as body motions--ways to have their muscles move their limbs--an external understanding. In time, they learn the centering, balance, and awareness of the arts' internal natures. People who are dedicated students of classically "external" martial arts, like karate or tae kwon do, gain an awareness of maai (distance and time) that evolves their art into a more internal one over years of study.

What, in the art that you study, can help you evolve as a martial artist? Regardless of your chosen art, you can find elements in it that will help you advance and progress as a martial artist. Seek out these things; you will grow and be further along your way.

[scotty1]

Cool, cheers.

[Bolt]

Very nice explanation!

[red5angel]

thats a really good explanation. those two categories are hard to seperate! Who wrote that?

[Chang Style Novice]

Shadow Dragon, thank you very much for posting that! I just have one quibble.

"Although the discussion of chi (or ki, or qi) takes an entire article..."

Talk about your underestimates!

[Braden]

In the internal arts in the classic sense, there are lots of fast forms, direct applications, overtly linear movements, limb destructions, and just about everything else that was characterized in that article as external.

[fa_jing]

Yes, I'm not sure where Wing Chun fits in here. We yield alot, but Chi was not part of the original teachings as far as I know.
Sometimes people characterize Wing Chun as internal/external, or hard/soft.

-FJ

[Shadow Dragon]

Hi.

Can't remember where I got it from or who wrote it.

I tend to search the Net and add a lot of stuff to the Library on my PC.

Peace.

[Nexus]

That is martialarts.about.com Article.

02/26/01 - Internal vs. External
Martial artists distinguish between arts by classifying them as either internal or external. Which one does your art fall into?

The link is provided here:
The article: http://martialarts.about.com/library/weekly/aa022601.htm

or About's Martial Arts Articles:
http://martialarts.about.com/library/weekly/mpreviss.htm

- Nexus

[Merryprankster]

Hey great! Looks like I do two internal styles! Boxing and BJJ.

My boxing coach focuses on parries, slips, circular movement to avoid getting hit, staying relaxed at all times and taking angles to unbalance the opponent. "Draw him out of stance," is heard a lot.

And BJJ....well, let's just say that Rickson Gracie said to be good at BJJ you have to "Flow wid de go!" Doesn't sound particularly external to me... I've personally described good BJJ as being a straightjacket made of water :)

Somebody clarify "power comes from within," and "power comes from outside." This sounds like a couple of catch phrases rather than an explanation.

[Royal Dragon]

External:
Power is generated in the limbs, and braced off the torso.

Internal:
power is generated by the torso, and transmited through the limbs. Some say power is multiplied by the torso as well.


Basically if the power is initiated in the legs, and transfered to the arms through the torso (Braced off the torso), and then added to the power genrated by the arms though contraction of the arm muscles, it is said to ne external. BUT, if the power is generated or multiplied by a compression/expansion action of the torso itself and drive through the arms which are basically just held in the position of greatest structural renforcement, it is internal.

Often the power generted in the legs is multiplied by the compression/expansion action of the torso before being sent to the arms which are also adding power themselves. This full body uniso of movment and power generation is Internal.

Just useing the arm muscles, or adding a turning of the hips to the mix is External. Here, the torso is used only to transfer power from legs/hips to upper limbs, and is ridged, inactive and benigne.

Active use of the Torso in power generation and multiplication through the compresion/expansion action is Internal.

That's it folks, simple. If the Torso adds or mulitplies power, it's internal, if not it's external.

[Nexus]

If you die 3 days later it is internal. If you die upon impact, its also internal.

If you get a bruise, it's external.

[Water Dragon]

Apparently, if you do it, it's internal, if someone else does it, it's external.

(and before I get my @ss in trouble again, that's a generality :D )

[Braden]

Royal Dragon - The power generation mechanics of many external arts in the classical sense certainly have additive elements from within the torso.

[rubthebuddha]

muay thai power is in hip rotation -- for both upper and lower body -- and i don't think fairtex has been teaching anything internal lately.

[No_Know]

Likely these terms were used solely for Chinese Kung-Fus. They came into being centuries ago. And given this, there were only three--T'ai Chi Ch'uan, Hsing-I, Pa Kua. Since then, through use, success and people stealing what works, and adding it to their own stuff to improve it, things have been done to address different perspectiives than before. And all the fighting stuffs that came after were able to utilize good stuffs from the Distinguished three. And the Internal stylists got to be harder when their softer was too soft. Everyone took the good stuff they came across. And now Everyone is using the same principles, different aspects (for at least some part).I'd like to think that the Internal principles bled into the later fightings.

It's no longer a helpful distinction. Some-such, basically, perhaps.