The art of being a man

[MightyB]

This is a reply that I had to another thread written by a Chi Hippy Faker. I'm interested in what you all think.

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My Response to Art of Warrior thread...

"This article by EM is just another shining example that there is no place for real men in the modern world.

Don't hide the fact that we like to fight behind some moral veil of BS. It's OK to like to fight. We're men, it's what we do.

This whole demasculinization thing happened relatively fast in the last 20 years or so. Before that, it was OK to be a man, now we're told it's a bad thing. You can't fight because you'll be sued, thinking about sex is harrasment, and everything you like to do is considered discrimination against women. Hunting is bad, being a leader and a man is bad, you get the point. Hell, a man can't even be a man at the Citadel anymore. (the Citadel was an all male military academy known for it's intense physical demands on the students. To graduate from the Citadel was an accomplishment, now it's a farce of what it used to be. The standards were lowered and eliminated in the name of gender equalization). Heck, even war has been stagnated by smart bombs and technology.

My point is, we lost the ability to be men in a relatively short amount of time. This article by EM is an example of how some men are trying to cope with that fact.

Watch Fight Club."

[guohuen]

I think I need a fizzy water, a motivational CD and a good cry.:D

[jon]

Dude i think you need to rewatch the movie again...
If you notice its actualy a paradoy of violence and of the male 'drive' for both violence and ego.
Its all well and good to say 'be a man' but you cant simply use that as an excuse for irrational behaviour.
I dont like EM article but i dont really agree with your rebutal either, not to mention the fact its obviously pulled strait from a mainstream movie.
Im often a very softhearted person yet im also often egotistcal and quick to anger. There is no point in me trying to say that im 'supposed' to be ego centric and overly aggressive becouse im a MAN.
To be honest i actualy resent the implication that just becouse im male i should love to be violent and wonder at destruction. Of course for me this is very much the opposite. Sure i do lots of ma and even do a fair wack of full contact but i try to still maintain my personality. I think that by saying that you wish to 'go back to being a real man' (obviously paraphrased) you are actualy falling into yet another social sterotype. You have esentialy stated you think only 'bad boys' are real men.

So yeah leave the cotten picking lilly loving furry animal hugging pansys alone. After all there not hurting you are they:p

But errm yeah im still a bloke so ummm SPORT SPORT SPORT SPORT SPORT SPORT BEER BEER BEER BEER BEER BEER GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS

[jon]

PS
Just to be annoying...

"My point is, we lost the ability to be men in a relatively short amount of time."
* hehe I honestly cant say im having this problem:p ;)

[red5angel]

Being a man is alot more then wanting to fight, liking sex, and everything else that goes with being a man. Its also alot simpler. Your a man if you have a dikk between your legs and two balls to keep it balanced. Thats it.
You can be gentleman by being respectful to those aorund you, thinking before acting, letting an someone else have your seat on the bus, or opening a door for a stranger.
You can be a warrior by studying the martial arts, by wanting to fight, by fighting, by joining the military.
Being rough and tunmble is not necessarily being a man. I have a good friend who is a woman. She likes to fight, likes to talk about fighting. She is rough, likes to play hard but can wear a dress and look like a queen when she wants to. She likes big strong men with lots of hair on them and a strong decisive attitude, but she has those qualities as well.
I odnt htink it is a bad thing to want to fight, as long as you dont go making people who dont want to fight, fight. I will aslo admit to being irritated at the whole citadel thing, because how many womens coleges have allowed men into them, and how many have been taken to court for it? A few, but none so publicized. I dont think it is wrong to have an all man or an all women place to go, no matter what it is for. I also dont think its wrong to not have them.
I think being a man and or being a women can be complicated if you want to make it. I dont bother to categorize myself so much as a man but more as myself. I do things based on what I feel I like or dont like, should or should not do and they are very seldom based on ideas of manhood or warrior spirit.

[MightyB]

I actually had that thought before I watched the movie. Did a stint in the moving business and some construction before and while I went to college to be a "professional". I was amazed that someone else had the thought and wrote a book about it. Talk about having balls. I own the dvd. They say it's not about violence and all, but I suspect that was written in after the Hollywood reviews.

I see that you are from Australia. Your country may not be so "pu$$ified" as the good ol' USA. It really has gotten bad over here. I blame the whole thing on the sensitivity movement of the 1990's, the 1970's, over legislation and too many lawyers, and the rapid expanse of technology and automation. It really is a crime to be a man in the US. Heck, I haven't even seen a good beer commercial in months. It's all Zima, wine coolers, and some f@ggoty pre-mixed drink BS anymore. It's all about fashion and such. Marketing is the new religion. Why else would people who've never seen dirt need to buy SUVs? Where I live, there's this trendy get back to nature movement that's ruined the environment. I grew up poor in a rural environment in north central Michigan. It's cold and there were a lot of woodlands. Detroiter's decided they wanted to get out of the city and move to the woods. The problem was, when they got here, they decided that they needed the city so they brought the city with them. Acres of forest have been destroyed and replaced with suburbs. I go to the local bars and see people wearing designer pre-worn kackies. I've even seen people picknicking at rest stops-- a rest stop is a $hitter next to the highway.

Kind've got distracted there. But my point is that pu$$ification is a real phenomena in the US and EM's article is a good example of it. We have to create philisophical nonsense of chivalry to justify the fact that we like to fight.

[MightyB]

It's almost a crime to hold doors for ladies and to buy them dinner. We deny them equality by doing so. There are some women who get mad at you if you try to be a gentlemen. It's scary, but it's true.

Everything else you said pretty much holds true. Yes, it's not right to go about beating people up for no reason, but it's also not right to hide behind the law if you're a jerk and a pu$$y. What I mean is, some people are real a-holes and they know it, but they also know that you can't really do anything about it because they can sue you. Back in the day, you could beitch slap people like that, now you can't.

I think that holding back aggressive behavior is one of the reasons why the violence is getting so horrorific in the US. People pen up their rage until they explode. They walk into schools and such and shoot everybody in sight. That's recent phenomona and that has nothing to do with gun ownership. That rage had to come from somewhere and the gun was just a tool.

[Merryprankster]

Mighty B--I think your response is a bit of overkill, but the essence of it is not lost on me either.

What I object to is not the "justification," of liking to fight. I object to the supposed spiritual enlightenment that is supposed to be the province of the warrior--as though Yoda is the paradigm for our actions, when, in truth, I would much rather be a PERSON, than a figure.

Yoda's cool and all, but me-- I don't want to aspire to that.

Ok--now it's time for everybody to start making little green man jokes :)

[red5angel]

MP - Maybe you havent seen the last Star WArs? Yoda kicks azz when he has to!
I like to fight, I dont like to beat people up, I am not a bully and I think that is what he is getting at, atleast it was my point. I suspect you arent one either.

MightyB - I hold the doors open anyway. When I get up in the bus I used to get "No thanks I can stand" or whatever, now I just get up and say "please take my seat and slip by them. to me its a matter of maintaning that integrity. They dont want to loose any buy taking your seat, if you dont give them the choice no one looses. I am not interested in any movements towards equality, men and women and people of color or creed have always been equal in my eyes. I treat them with respect, opening a door has nothing to do with equality, its not just women I open the doors for.
Would I hit someone for being an *******? possibly, I have no problem admitting that either, like I have no problem saying that if someone takes a swing at me I am going to do my best to destroy them. If I have to run like hell to avoid the cops after wards, then so be it, but I dont mind giving someone a lesson in courtesy when it comes down to it.
however use of the word F@ggoty is unacceptable to me. Why? Because it is ok to be gay, or effeminite if that is your thing. I dont even care if you are gay and hitting on me, as long as when I explain to you I am not your type you let it go. I feel the same way about women hitting on me.
F@ggoty is a demeaning word, like calling a black person n1gger or a spanish person sp1ck. It lowers the target of your name calling and tries to make you rise above it. If you dont like something, thats your right, but be respectful anyway, it never hurts.

[MightyB]

I agree. I shouldn't have used that term.

[red5angel]

No problem man, I understand your frustration, the best thing to do is to move past it and be who you are, dont let society lock you up.

[Merryprankster]

Red,
I did see it. It sucked, but Yoda was cool.

Yoda also gives off the impression that he doesn't drink, doesn't go to concerts, will never marry, have children, etc, but has a singular devotion to the force and furthering its proper use. Spiritual enlightenment has a cost. There is a limited amount of time on this earth and I could spend it trying to "become Yoda," or I could simply live.

One is not better than the other--they are different paths. Kudos to the ones that desire spiritual enlightenment--but I take tremendous issue with the idea that that is what I'm SUPPOSED to get out of someting or SUPPOSED to do.

[red5angel]

MP - well put, excpet the thing about the new episode sucking..... ;)

[MightyB]

The most dissapointing thing about that movie was how Janga went out. Mace is cool and all, but I really expected more out of Janga. He went out like a beitch. It wasn't as bad as how Boba went out in Return though. I was hoping for Janga to be in 3, but that ain't gonna happen, and Boba will probably be too young to make any kind've impact.

Yoda kicked arse, plain and simple. I also liked the CG Clone/Storm Troopers. They had a much more fluid motion and you could actually see real military tactics being used.

[Kaitain(UK)]

I take issue with the fact that EM describes that kind of behaviour as 'a Warrior'. For the most part it's just basic human integrity, morals and ethics - you shouldn't need to study MA to be like that.

And if EM walked into a room full of people I don't think he'd calm anyone down. He's got some scary hair going on and he looks like a nutbag :)

[red5angel]

Who the hell is EM anyway?

[dnc101]

Men are generally more physical by nature than women. We like full contact sports, and the role of defense has almost allways been relegated to men (not that women can't or havn't). Jon, and others have made some good points about being a man and still being an individual and a gentleman, so I won't go over all that again. The point I'd like to make is why we are under attack as men, gentlemen, and individuals.

I grew up in the 60's when the baby boomers (aka extreme liberals) took control of all our institutions- especially government and the media. It's been said that it is nothing unusual for children to rebel. What is unusual is that this was the first generation of children to win the rebellion. They so greatly outnumbered the older generation that these lunatics (spoiled and immature and crazy with their newfound 'power') took over the assylum. I've argued with them for over 40 years, so I think I have a fair understanding of what they want- the total destruction of all old institutions, values, mores, ideals- everything. In their view, if their parents liked, did or practiced it, it is bad. They argue change for changes sake, but with no clear understanding or direction; no idea where they are going, no thought for the consequences. All they know is that to build their new utopia they have to completely destroy everything that exists. That is why they hate the "typical male patriarchical attitudes" and seek to reinvent gender roles. The only way to change a man into something else is castration, whether physical or mentally. This is their goal, and it is just one more vehicle they use to try to destroy our society so that it can be rebuilt in their utopian model.

I would argue that a society that harnesses the energy of its young men strengthens itself. One that fails to do this, one that allows that energy to be turned to mischief, or worse neuters its young men, will weaken itself and be destroyed. The libs would argue that also. The difference is that I think it is foolish to destroy your own society, they desperately want just that.

Let me restate that it is the extreme liberalism I'm talking about here. Liberalism is not necessarily a bad thing- I wouldn't want to live in a world without it to ballance those like me (I married a liberal). But the average lib is too often led along by the extremists without a lot of thought for the consequences, just as conservatives often resist change just because it is different.

[MightyB]

right on. My point exactly... but, EM is Erle Montague. He's this new age hippy freak that wrote this BS pseudo philisophical crap about warriors being spiritual healers and mentors and such. You know the usual at tune with everything in the universe because I wear pajamas when I play slap-tag type.

I wrote that he's propagating that myth like many on this board because they are afraid to admit that they like to fight. I say admit it. Set yourself free and be a man. Hell, I like chicks with big knockers too and I think that most guys nowadays are pu$$ies and that it is a **** shame that male GI's have female DI's.

Board Members- Ask yourself if people were enlightened before MA entered into Budhism? If they were, then why add MA? To learn how to fight to defend themselves. If you're not a Budhist, then why do you do MA? To learn how to defend yourself? Isn't that a little irrevelant today? So why MA? Enlightenment? Go to church. Fight. Go to a kwoon.

[red5angel]

Hey MightyB - I was in the military and I met a few Female DI's, and I can tell you it doesnt make a difference!

As for the 60's and changes in government etc.. I think that is a cycle that societies go through. A schildren we rebel against our parents and what they generally stand for. Some of us dont grow out of that, its just our way, but things ALWAYS change. That is why I remain and individual and lay claim to my own little domain, becuase someone will always try to control the way you think and act, and you can choose that route, for all you Survivor fans ;)
Ultimately I think the best thing to go by is the golden rule do unto others. think about the things you are doing and how they would affect you. MightyB dont be afraid to be a man, and dont be afraid to be yourself and define what that means to you.

[Ryu]

LOL
ah :)

Being a "man" is taking responsibility for your actions, having the strength to stand up for things that are important, having the strength to admit you're wrong, know your faults, understand your weaknesses, and understand your emotions.

It's not about being a "warrior" and it's not about liking "knockers".
Being a man is being human. How silly it is to think being a "man" is not something created by our society.

Being a man in America is different then being a "man" in Japan, or Africa, etc. But being "human" in all those places is pretty much the same.

I can understand what Merry means when he talks about the "warrior spirit" stuff getting to him.

Men are different from each other. Not all men like to fight. Not all men react the same to the same stimuli. How silly.

Ryu

[Braden]

MightyB - You should inform yourself before jumping to conclusions, particularly in such an emotional manner.

[MightyB]

Inform myself on what?

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I don't want to get into a male female thing. I know plenty of capable females who are good at sports, business, and martial arts. The only difference between men and women is that women are now encouraged to bring out their masculinity where men are taught to repress it. (Screwed up ain't it).

For the US members... watch TV as a researcher. Analyze typical male and female roles on television shows and commercials. What type of dialogue is being used? How are the roles portrayed? Who typically takes on the masculine/capable role and who is portrayed as incompetent?

As a researcher... What is the effect of differential association (using the expanded definition which includes media characters as role models) on the audience?

[diego]

Yoda also gives off the impression that he doesn't drink, doesn't go to concerts, will never marry, have children, etc, but has a singular devotion to the force and furthering its proper use. Spiritual enlightenment has a cost. There is a limited amount of time on this earth and I could spend it trying to "become Yoda," or I could simply live. """


the guys like 4000years old, he prolly got petrified-ginseng dich,
leave em alone:)

[guohuen]

Aw, don't hold back MightyB, tell us how you really feel!:D

[Braden]

On the topic you choose to rant about. Nothing you're commenting ON was present in the article you're commenting ABOUT. Seems rather senseless.

[LEGEND]

I have to agree with MIGHTY on the MEN thang. Some of the MEN nowadayz are little biatches or act like one. Especially those that were younger and thought that being really really sweet and understanding was a way to a woman's heart! BS...woman say they want that shiet...but really they want a STRONG, INTELLIGENT take CHARGE kinda guy. Why do u think nice guys complain about the JERK??? Is he really a JERK or is he being a MAN. They want a MAN. Not the wuss I have seen lately on the 5th wheel, MTV dismissal, etc...u notice the trend of MEN acting more gay??? I'm not saying be an ASS. But be a STRONG MAN. Part of it is learning a martial art. To be MAN u're gonna have to learn to defend what is yours. Your property, Car and Well Being for example.

[Merryprankster]

Part of it is learning a martial art. To be MAN u're gonna have to learn to defend what is yours. Your property, Car and Well Being for example.

Franklin Roosevelt called and he wanted to apologize for not being a man.

[Royal Dragon]

Personnaly, I think Big Knockers are too jiggly. Small ones aren't the ticket either, but find a woman with some nice firm ones that are just the right size, and you've got it made. :D

On the subject of fighting, I try not to fight over the girls with Big knockers, they all seem to think they are God's gift to man, the ones with smaller knockers are more humble, and you really don't have to fight over them as the pack is going for the girls with the big knockers anyway. The best place to be is inbetween the knockers of medium size. This leaves us free to fight over better things, like parking spaces, or the last corn dog at the consession stand during a football game.:D

[Merryprankster]

Ahem.

Any more than a handful and you're risking tongue sprain.

Thank you very much.

[LEGEND]

Merry...Frank new MILITARY WAREFARE. Same thang...hell study how to use a GLOCK.

[Ryu]

LOL@ this thread and how everyone speaks for every "man" and every "woman" in the entire universe :D

Here's a secret. Different women want different things.
You can take it a step up too. Different people want different things.

Ryu

[DelicateSound]

All men want beer.

[guohuen]

Nice sig DS! Now how about sharing some of that beer?!

[DelicateSound]

Cheers Guohuen. It represents my universal feeling on the whole style-V-style debate.


What would you prefer, a can of Bass or a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale? :)

[guohuen]

No cans please! I'll start with a bottle of Newcastle and then maybe a bottle of Bass. Or a brown and tan with Guinness and bass.

[guohuen]

Oh yea, most styles that have been around a little while are pretty good aren't they?

[DelicateSound]

Pick a random British beer - it'll be nice.

I agree on the can thing, especially ones with widgets. They're just awful.

Bass on tap is just sublime. Or even better, a pint of Bombardier :)




How you Yanks drinks that cat-p!ss like Lone Star I'll never know...

[Merryprankster]

Me neither DS.

I miss Strongbow myself--and Bass, of course. Anyway, all the ciders here taste like apple juice.

[DelicateSound]

I wasn't legal to drink in the US [only just here!] but I used to drink at night in most hotels and Jesus, some of your beer is just awful. Lone Star was by far the worst beer I have ever had the misfortune to drink.

Do you guys have much UK beer over there. I found Newcastle Brown Ale in Denver and in LA, and Bass in Salt Lake City.

Man was I happy when I found that :)