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scotty1
05-24-2002, 06:53 AM
In Taiji, is there a guard position for the hands?

scotty1
05-24-2002, 08:02 AM
What I mean is, a fighting stance.

Walter Joyce
05-24-2002, 08:32 AM
My reaction after thinking about this is, no, probably not. As I understand it, tai chi is a counter-fighting style, relying on the first move of your opponent, then sticking/adhering/redirecting/countering. I may be wrong. Although I study Yang style, and have studied Wu, it never came up. Any one else?

Daredevil
05-24-2002, 08:58 AM
Okay, so my taiji experience is thin (though getting fatter each day), I thought I'd comment, since I have had a few thoughts on the subject. I have not (yet, at least) been told about any particular guard position by my teacher, but often when my teacher demonstrates taiji fighting he favors a certain hand position, which might be characterized as a guard.

Hands before you at chest height, not too stretched, indeed very much like the "hugging tree posture", though usually with the hands touching in the middle. Works as a shield and a sensor, and makes for some very unpredictable issuing of force (well, I think that could be said about all actual taiji masters).

Walter Joyce
05-24-2002, 09:08 AM
Could you describe the way the hands are touching, what you are describing sounds like the basic ward off posture.

Mojo
05-24-2002, 09:12 AM
I think that the 'Playing the pipa' hand posture would be the closest thing to a guard position.
One hand in front at about chin level, with the other hand at its elbow. Both elbows down.

Water Dragon
05-24-2002, 09:16 AM
I was taught to use the tree hugging posture as well, although our hands do not touch.

Mojo
05-24-2002, 09:28 AM
The problem with using the tree hugging posture is that it leaves your face open to a fast attack, especially from someone taller than you. Your better off having one hand higher than the other.

Kumkuat
05-24-2002, 09:53 AM
You calmly put your arms by your side like a bad a$$ and wait for the attack so you can easily neutralize it and blast your opponent away. But seriously, Yan Gao Fei uses one arm up and one arm down stance. The arm that is up is to defend against high attacks, and the arm down is to defend agains low attacks. Some people use the Xingyi santi stance.

Walter Joyce
05-24-2002, 09:57 AM
I always thought of playing the lute as a trap, or some other dynamic move, not a static guard. While the form is done slowly clearly exhibiting the postures, the principle of unbroken movements implies that all of the postures are dynamic, one flowing to the next in linked movement, not poses. Not to say that they aren't open to a myriad of interpretations, but that these interpretations should conform to the principle of unbroken movement.
I also agree that the san ti posture might be classified as a basic guard posture for all three of the major IMAs with variations based on which you practice.

wufupaul
05-24-2002, 10:00 AM
The stance I learned in Wu tai chi is a modified tree-hugging stance, just not as expanded, you have to have some room to expand when you strike. It would take way too long to get into the many details of the stance, but the normal internal stance work applies; chin slightly tucked, pelvis tucked, chest rounded, loose and relaxed.

Daredevil
05-24-2002, 12:04 PM
To these comments:


Could you describe the way the hands are touching, what you are describing sounds like the basic ward off posture.

and


I was taught to use the tree hugging posture as well, although our hands do not touch.

and


The problem with using the tree hugging posture is that it leaves your face open to a fast attack, especially from someone taller than you. Your better off having one hand higher than the other.

Well, when my teacher does it he's very alive with movement, so of course depending on circumstances he's adapting. That's why I said it's sort of like a guard. The hands don't touch always, not necessarily even commonly now that I think about it, but come together sometimes to issue force. Ahh, if I had the terms for them .. don't know about ward off (don't think so, aren't the hands kept separate in ward off? I may have my terms confused: that's what you get for learning martial arts in three different languages)...

And well, personally I think every guard position has its potential weaknesses. It's not about assuming a static stance, but about keeping the mind open and adapting : changing to strike, changing when the opponent chases, changing constantly.

miscjinx
05-24-2002, 12:38 PM
'Playing the pipa' is my preferred all around stance that I take in sparring. It is versatile and well defended (and protects the center line).

Someone mentioned remember it being dynamic...it is. There is a series of applications for playing the pipa and it does not take much to go to roll back and other techniques.

But for a fighting stance I put my hands up along the center line...one hand high and one lower...and I end up posing very closely to playing the pipa. I know several in tai chi and other martial arts that use similar fightining stances...it seems to be a favorite.

Once contact is made this all changes and becomes dynamic.

~ Eric

Liokault
05-24-2002, 01:05 PM
In Taiji, is there a guard position for the hands?

I was always taught that seven stars stance was the starting gaurd position (in Wudang Tai Chi anyway) It has all the weight on the bent back leg with an almost straight front legnearly directly infront. The arm on the weighted side is at almost full stretch between your face and your oponents. The other hand is held infront of your face near the chin with the elbow down.

I still use a stance very close to this when i spar....but more middle weighted as I may need to move backwards in sparring.

Mojo
05-24-2002, 02:06 PM
Walter
I concur that 'playing the pipa' is a dynamic move. I was using the end posture of it as a visual aid as to the placement of the hands for an 'on guard' posture.
To use 'san ti' as a guard your back hand should be raised to the opposite elbow. Don't keep your back hand as low as you do when you hold 'san ti'.