Q. for the BJJ Guys.

[Shadow Dragon]

Hi.

How does BJJ compare to Kosen Judo or Fusen Ryu??

Peace

[LiteBlu]

Kodokan Judo is mainly standing up grappling (throws, etc.)

Kosen Judo is mainly newaza (groundwork).

Kosen Judo is what Maeda taught the Gracies down in Brazil.

In 1905 the Kodokan Team lost to the Fusen Ryu. The Fusen Ryu was the first ever newaza oriented ryu. Dr. Kano then decided to incorporate, learn and teach the fusen ryu at the kodokan, because their newaza was superior.

Please refer to Kosen Judo by: Faxia Roxa for more information.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Gym/2115/faxia1.html

Today Kosen (Newaza) Judo is practiced at Japanese Universities and more popularly incarnated around the world as BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU.

[Shadow Dragon]

Thanks LiteBlue.

Now another question:
Are there differences between modern Kosen Judo & modern BJJ in the way they are trained or use specific techniques?

With the times and distance between those 2 related styles I would assume that some differences have occurred.

Also which one could be considered closer to the original art.

Thanks, in advance.

Peace

[LiteBlu]

Kosen Judo is the original art.

And as the Kodokan sent their emissaries all around the world to teach the ways of Judo (many of them performed in pro wrestling to supplement their income), Maeda eventually his way to Brasil and taught Carlos Gracie. The Gracies then made changes to the Kosen Judo to be more effective in one on one streetfighting and in the vale-tudo ring.

In Japanese Universities today, Kosen Judo is practiced a lot like BJJ is practiced at clubs in Brasil. Keep in mind that Jigaro Kano made these Kosen Judo clubs in Japan exempt from international Judo rules (the 1925 Kodokan rule change signifiying that "ippon" or "perfect throw" is an automatic win). What Jigaro Kano wanted was that Kosen Judo students would specialise in newaza and encourage its development, thus creation of the Seven Universities Tournament in Japan (Judo submission tournament. Scoring "ippon" does not mean automatic win), very much like a BJJ tournament.



The complete art of Judo can be split into two parts:


Pre 1925: Before the Kodokan rule change Judo practised stand up and ground grappling.


Post 1925: After the Kodokan rule change Judo became:

Kodokan Judo (stand up grappling): International Judo as seen in the Olympics. When people say "Judo", they usually mean this kind.

Kosen Judo (ground grappling): Practiced in the Japanese Universities and Police Departments.

Brasilian Jiu Jitsu (ground grappling): Made popular by the Gracies the world over.

Sambo: I honestly have no idea about Sambo.


Interesting note: Masahiko Kimura himself was pro wrestling in Brasil when challenged by Helio Gracie. Kimura only accepted the challenge because people weren't going to the pro wrestling show anymore because Helio defeated one of Kimura's Judo partners.

Opinion: I do not like the way international Judo is going. Too many restrictive rules and regulations. That is why I like BJJ better because it keeps the original spirit and flavour of Japanese Judo pre 1925.

[Shadow Dragon]

Hi.

Thanks, for all the Info.

Answered all the questions I had.

Peace.

[LiteBlu]

Pre-1925 Judo produced the greatest grappler ever to walk the planet, Masahiko Kimura. Equally skilled in stand up and ground grappling, he was renowned for his fearful throws that could knockout an opponent and for breaking Helio Gracie's arm twice.

Most people today specialise in either stand up (Kodokan) or ground grappling (BJJ).

Unless you fight in MMA of course.


For more information please refer to:

http://www.judoinfo.com


http://www.bstkd.com/JudoHistory/HistoryNine.htm

[Nichiren]

ttt

Good info!:D