Do you think Practicing Martial Arts is a spiritual activity?

[danyboy809]

My friend once said that spirituality is a feeling or relationship one has with the universe. It can be based without any religious beliefs. What do you guys think?

Do you guys also think you pick up morals or a sense of duty to society by practicing?

[Shadow Dragon]

Ok, here is my take on it and it might ruffle a few feathers.

Personally, I don't think that MA can give you anything that you haven't got already, it can make certain things better or more apparent.

MA Training is simply a refining/adjustement process of natural skills and abilities you already got.

May it be spiritual or physical, what you put in is what you get out improved.
Just my 2 Cent, spend them any way you wish.

Peace.

[Paul]

No.

[Kaitain(UK)]

I think it can be - I think the constant self-evaluation and assessment that MA requires could be defined as spiritual...

[respectmankind]

it itself i do not believe is a form of spirituality. but i do believe that many things can help in spirituality

[scotty1]

I think it can be, if you want it to be, but it doesn't have to be.

[HongKongPhooey]

I find it very spiritual when I stick my fist into some one elses gob, don't you?

[Kaitain(UK)]

that's fighting - not practicing a martial art. Slight difference.

Some martial arts are more spiritual than others - it's just a word anyway, I think we all have different definitions of it.

[HongKongPhooey]

Is fighting (sparring) not part of marital arts practice?

[monkey man]

Depends what you perceive to be 'spirituality'. I think that (true) martial arts are definately a spiritual endeavour - they are about self improvement, discipline, honesty, integrity and finding a personal sense of calm in a world full of many distractions.

Spirituality, for me, is not about following a dogmatic religion or idolising a deity.

[Kaitain(UK)]

sparring isn't fighting though is it? In a fight there's no room for anything other than surviving - in sparring you have the capacity to think and analyse, safe in the knowledge that it is stoppable and 'safe'.

Having said that - I don't think there's spirituality in sparring either :) - I don't think that spirituality should be in every aspect of martial art and I don't think it's a necessity for most styles. But I do think it's there for some people.

Unfortunately I can't even provide a definition of spirituality so I'm kind of arguing with blanks here :) - I know what I mean and I'm right - ok? :P

[HongKongPhooey]

Well, I know what I mean and I'M right. So there, ner ner ne ner ner. :p

It all depends on how and what you define spirituality as. For me, spiritualty is some thing above the mundane, an emotion gained from something other than the 5 senses. Think I'lll go and hug a tree for a while. :)

[prana]

even doing a dump is a spiritual act if you know how to make it that way. No pun intended.

Chinese Martial Arts has much to do with using mind (yi) to move. Perfection of body becomes perfection of mind and vice versa, Chinese MA does both.

So I am a (singular) minority on this thread, so now we can all go take a dump and be all spiritual about it :cool:

[Chang Style Novice]

Put me in the "anything can be spiritual" camp. My shifu has told me he uses sweeping the floor as an opportunity to meditate, and that most people meditate without even knowing it.

Haven't you ever heard of the Tao of washing dishes?

[Chang Style Novice]

Just because you're a murderous lunatic doesn't mean you aren't spiritual. Unfortunately.

[scotty1]

You're weird Stumblefist. BTW I'm on an EF course and I'll be joining you in the Middle Earth in October! Aiiieeee!

Thanks for your help.:)

[Chinwoo-er]

It depends if you see martial arts as a set of principle which exist pior to human existance and what we are doing is "discovering" them in the truest form. Or if they are theories which are made up by humans and have no relations to truth. Only how they are assessed by humans.

[The Willow Sword]

i have always believed that the spirituality and philosophy associated with martial arts was designed to sane oneself in combat and to also provide a means of "justification" to the brutal killing of another. warriors that have survived extremely violent conflicts have been enlightened to the peaceful aspects of life and then they transform to become gentle people, for example Master Ueshiba Morehei(founder of Ki-Aikido) this was a man who fought in the korean war, killed many people, and then repented all of this to lead a totally spiritual life, becomes enlightened and creates a martial system based on nonviolece and peace.

then there is the association of brutal acts of killing and fighting
combined that with a religious tone. for example( Al Qieda)
martial arts is about fighting yes, thats the surface and many do not go beyond that. what lies beneath all of the violence and conflict lies a realm that far precedes the forms and ways taught to harm another person.
put that in your pipe and smoke it.

MAny Respects, The Willow Sword

[Daredevil]

At the risk of being repetative with most everyone else, anything can be spiritual, certainly. I think stuff like tea ceremony is an excellent demonstration of that.

As such, martial arts is an excellent vehicle for spirituality, but as most things it's merely a door towards it. Spirituality is found within yourself. I think many internal arts especially are strong in this department, though certainly any style can be spiritual.

Something about being confronted with death, learning to deal with it, etc, is intimately connected to spirituality. Not that we do that much these days (hence the McDojos and watered down systems abound), but the root of MA is still there. That and all the self study and constant learning.

Martial arts is, among many other things, a somewhat spiritual (though I do not like the term "spiritual", it implies something that is impractical and merely mumbojumbo) thing for me, anyway.

But it doesn't have to be, as I think someone pointed out in another thread on the subject.

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Put me in the "anything can be spiritual" camp.

I will consider myself in that camp too. I would give my thoughts and reasons.

First, I think of is the meaning of life existance itself. Life--means the force that encouraged and controlling the pattern of how matter changes into energy and energy changes back to matter cycles. Existance--the one that has boundry, reject at lest 50% of all other exixtances, and it is limitted.

Martial Art--in Chinese, Martial--Wu--to stop/prevent fight. Art-Yi-is a expressional bridge amoung all lifes that can be effectively used for harmonization.

Of course, all activaties we do has to do with how our Qi--the way we converted energy into matter and matter into energy--and break beyound our limitted boundry, harmonize with all other existances--as win over the heart, not just kill the body--until there is no boundry and limitation--by human def, this is death too. A person can die with reject more or harmonized more, but they will result different. Just like you can leave a class with a passing grade or you can fail the class, both will make you leave the class.

From that, I would say all things can be spiritial. Spirit has no limit. Any thing working toward that direction is spiritial.

So I would say caring about killing or beating others more than avoiding fight is not qualified to be Martial Art, Martial skill or techniques that may be. The correct way to using how badly you can kill/defeat others is to avoid fights.

In another aspect, there are parallel of different dimentions. If you have the mind of destroying any things in the human world, your mind will automatically act to destroy the parallel parts in your own body. Many sickness are caused by such mind. I would say that the correct way is the kill the Evil only, not the Evil people. Protect the goods if you can and only Evil people kill themselves, you just protecting and do your normal job. To act and kill Evil people rather than remove the Evil in people is used by the Evil yourself, tricked by the Evil. Evil want to counter the harmony, kill others, or at lest kill the one that hosted on.

To be real, a fight don't make any winner, it only prevent one form a total looser.

Will write more when have time, there are so much about this issue.

[Liokault]

"Just because you're a murderous lunatic doesn't mean you aren't spiritual."
Absolutely!!! Did i show you my petunias?


Stumblefist do you own a gun?

I belive martial arts are very spiritual as you need to push your self hard when you want to stop and put your self in dangerouse potentialy painfull situations repitedly and strive constantly at forms for years. This i belive makes you think about your motives and goals and why the hell you bother.

[respectmankind]

anything someone has a passion for can help in terms of spirituality. always exceptions.

[diego]

Do you think Practicing Martial Arts is a spiritual activity?"

OfCourse, my main focus i practise so those who want to **** with me can be of spirit.

[nospam]

Interesting...

Spirit - what is spirit? It is defined as the immaterial part of man- the soul.

Spiritual is defined as having to do with the spirit as distinct from the body or material things.

The way I read the above is that to be 'spiritual', one is developing, or has developed, a belief structure (secular or religious) that allows for personal identification. This identification is not so much concerned with our physical selves (although it could lead to principles or precepts, which govern our bodily or physical relations); rather, it is a path of awareness and growth through questioning and defining of our consciousness. We are expanding what we know or have previously believed or simply taught. The act of being spiritual –spirituality- then becomes a tool. It is a function of our cognition used to create paths to universal and personal understanding.

Perception of identity. Our ability to perceive to achieve becomes our spirituality. Spirit is a conscious matter of our essence- who and what we are as individuals and as a species. It is distinctive, and when sought out, provides a well source of faith, for it is shaped into our focus of intent. It develops our consciousness. It broadens our viewpoints and allows the journey of self-discovery to occur.

I am spiritual simply means I have asked of myself beyond myself. If we do not ask or seek to question, our ability to perceive is limited. So, is practicing martial arts a spiritual activity? I believe that through guided & diligent training in martial arts, one can foster their ability to seek first to understand, then be understood. To successfully increase our ability to realize our intent, discipline is needed. What better way to build upon our mental discipline than through strengthening our physical ability? We are of both Body and Mind. The link is our consciousness. It is a standard precept: strengthen the Body to strengthen the Mind.

When our Body and Mind are attuned, through this balance can we truly begin to explore. I believe the beginning stages of understanding are through the connection of Body~Mind~Spirit. It is during these stages that martial arts can be used to foster one’s spiritualism in the same way one might incorporate the use of systemic religious practices. It is but one means...

nospam.
:cool:

[prana]

for me

more spiritual = less scattered mind pattern (in a small way).

[rubthebuddha]

sadly, little these days has been spiritual for me. i believe an art, if you internalize it, is spiritual, but if you leave it superficial, it's little more than a series of moves.

one thing: i differentiate between an internal style and internalizing a style. even the hardest, most external style can be internalized.

my problem is that everything is staying just on the surface. things are getting into muscle memory as far as my chi sau and chi gerk goes, but nothing is sinking deeper than muscles. i don't feel it in me heart or mind.

my sisok once broke down three stages of martial growth:
1. activity (i believe)
2. passion
3. expression

technically, my abilities are getting better, but i think i've actually backslid away from being passionate enough. :(

[Nexus]

Spirituality is a part of every art and is an individual process. It is especially apparent in music.

Often you hear a song that sounds good, but doesn't especially touch you. Other times you hear a song filled with so much 'soul' as the expression goes, that you can't help but feel uplifted.

If you put the 'soul music' into your martial arts, it becomes obviously spiritual.

[rubthebuddha]

about my rant back there -- i'm kinda stuck on the outside looking in, and i don't like it.

who all has been in this stage, and how did you find your way out of it?

[LiteBlu]

You guys might find it spiritual!


There is nothing spiritual about me rolling around the wrestling mat trying to hook and submit big, hairy, smelly men trying to
smash the life out of me! LMFAO!


To me martial arts is for making friends, fitness, growing nice muscles (as is often the case in BJJ and Wrestling) and beating people up legally and in the nicest possible way. Nothing spiritual.

[scotty1]

Who's tempted? :D

[rubthebuddha]

scotty: you're in the uk. weren't aussie's nothing more than the criminals you didn't want anymore?

i think this one is yours, scotty. :cool:

[LiteBlu]

I'm in Australia. But I'm not Australian.


Is that true? Are all Aussies really descendants of English convicts?

[scotty1]

Dude I've only been up for an hour and I don't feel sharp enough.
:(

Liteblu - it is a well known fact that the deadly South American art of dry humping has little spiritual value. May I prescribe some Taiji? ;)

Rubthebuddha - good chat up line. "Yeah baby, the little bald headed fella. Rubthebuddha, Rubthebuddha, Rubthebuddha, Rubthebuddha! Rubthebuddha! Rubthebuddha! RUBTHEBUDDHA!"

On the subject of you being outside looking in, I've never experienced that. Maybe take a break?

BTW, yes I've only been up an hour and already I've posted 3 times, but I am at work.

[Liokault]

scotty: you're in the uk. weren't aussie's nothing more than the criminals you didn't want anymore?

If that were strictly true then all australians would have scotish surnames!!!!

[LiteBlu]

I definately agree that The Art of South American Dry Humping has little spiritual value.

I also agree that it is extremely deadly. :D

[scotty1]

:D Which just goes to show that people get different things from their MA practice, and it doesn't have to be one way or the other.

Where are you from then if you're not an Aussie Liteblu?

And yeah, I think it is pretty much true about the convicts, although you'd have to ask Jon or someone really.

[dezhen2001]

Hey! R U trying to say all SCOTS are criminal? :D hmmm.... actually i know a few ppl who would aree with u there :D

But as far as i remember from history, Oz started off as a Penal Colony (if i'm correct?).. Then it opened up to anyone.

david (100% Scot)

[David Jamieson]

Practice of Kung Fu is personally spiritual in nature. The connection of the mind and the body involves the spirit as the binder.

Much as people may percieve "spirituality" as this or that, Kung Fu that is practiced without the spirit is only fighting.

For me, spirituality and religion are two entirely different things.

religion being doctrine and dogma, spirituality being who you are, how you feel, how you project outwards and how you give of yourself for others. Amongst other qualities of course. :)

peace

[rubthebuddha]

territorially speaking, england used to ship their unwanted convicts of to oz. when that stopped, and how that fit in to when oz became its own show, i dunno.

and yeah, i think i do need a break. working 8-5, then teaching or taking classes until 9:30 m/w and 8:30 t/th pretty much means death. come weekend, all i want to do is slack and rest and slack some more.

[PaulLin]

Without spiritual element, kungfu is dead. Why did I think that way? Spiritual gives kungfu a meaning, a direction to grow. Although it seems not much to do with the physical body we have now, but form existing to believing, to knowing, to improving, to mastering, and at last to being is a very long journey. If you don't have a spiritual mind, you will noly stay in the existing stage and not going forward. That is not just true in Martial Arts but in all the subjects in life.

Exist--you just need to be alive.
Believe--to have a focus, a goal, have a heart to be better.
Know--able to tell which direction to go, compare what is better in that direction, what is effective and how to acheive.

Improve--if you know it, just do it. Repeat untill it is a satisfactory.
Master--able to do it when you need it.
Being--You are it. Total harmonized. Needless to think specially to achieve.

These stages are in the journey one will have to go throgh in the spiritial path.