Triads and Freemasonry= BS

[Turiyan]

"The triads are entirely antagonistic to freemasonry" --Deputy provincial Grand master of British freemasonry in China 1855

Source: Notes and querys Page 233

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan

The REAL taichi:
http://www.wfdesign.com/tc/
http://www.wustyle.com/108.html

Chinese military forum:
http://www.anyboard.net/plaboard/

[tnwingtsun]

For turning me on to the Chinese Communist Military's forum.
Oh boy am I going to have fun with these twisted
brainwashed fools that worship a form of goverment
that is responsible for the deaths of countless
MILLIONS in the last century,The numbers make Hitler's rule look like a drive by shooting.

BTW,You just might be shocked if you knew what these wanna be super power mad freaks have in store for the world.

[fiercest tiger]

man, you should be called fiercest tiger! hi buddy package coming soon:) ;)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Eddie]

Well guys, in all respect, I can see you guys have no idea about these things.

You need 5 guys with no moral and ethical values, allot of power lust, and good leadership skill to run a country in this way (Like China, Cuba, etc)

As for the rest of the world trying to over throw them... I salute you if you could! For 45 years my country was ruled by what we call the "Broederbond" - Translated as the Brotherbond/ brother hood - and not really the political goverment. These guys were behind everything, and the goverment was just players in the same game (obviously some of the old presidents were members of the gang). The rest of the world tried for over 45 years to convince these power freaks to give up, but all the pressure they put on the old goverment, just made the goverment stronger. Like China, our country was heavily sanctioned byt the UN. All that did, was force us to rely on internal production. Our economy was much stronger then, and our currency was way more worth in those days. Whats bad for one, is good for the other.

Yeah, as in China, many people died and many were slaughtered, so we are happy its over now. But just as all good things could have bad effects, bad things could have good effects. Im merely saying that unless you live in China, rather stay out of their inhouse political struggles. The facts arent always on the table, and people in other countries dont always see or hear the real truth. As in everything in life, its all a realitive. Its all a matter of opinion to say who is right, and who is wrong.

Politics are so involved, that we should rather keep to what we do best, and worry about our own lives, than those of people we never met before.

Its cruel.. I know, but before we label people incorrectly, rather not lable them at all.

[Eddie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oh boy am I going to have fun with these twisted brainwashed fools that worship a form of goverment that is responsible for the deaths of countless MILLIONS in the last century,The numbers make Hitler's rule look like a drive by shooting. [/quote]

Anyone can turn this quote around and say the same about America going to Vietnam, the bombing of Nagasaki, the boxer rebellion... to name a few

[WuMan]

"worship a form of goverment
that is responsible for the deaths of countless
MILLIONS in the last century,The numbers make Hitler's rule look like a drive by shooting."

I dont get, what do you mean?

[tnwingtsun]

Communisim= Murder,dropping the Atom bomb on Japan
was a horrible but at the time a necessary life saver of Soldiers that were scheduled to invade in
the latter part of 1945.

I take no pleasure in death.


Vietnam,a bad move on my country's part.

The Communist form of goverment is nothing but
a brutal way of opressing the masses.

"The facts arent always on the table, and people in other countries dont always see or hear the real truth."

I've seen the opressed,seen the dead bodies and watched them bloat,they were on the ground,not the table.

My goverments far from perfect,they **** me off often when they go against the ideas that my country was founded on.

Oppresion is just what it is,no matter how you package it.

Please do not confuse Politics with murder.

[Eddie]

Confucius taught us about filial piety. The highest level of this is respect and complete obedience to your government. To use words such as "worshiping" etc, borders on offensive arguments. This is a kung fu forum, and not a forum on politics, but the topic is of this kind that it could relate to many things (even kung fu training). Allow me to disagree with some of you, and I will allow you to disagree with me.

Your opening statement:
“Communisim= Murder,dropping the Atom bomb on Japan
was a horrible but at the time a necessary life saver of Soldiers that were scheduled to invade in the latter part of 1945. I take no pleasure in death. “

You obviously don’t know what you are talking about. I am not a communist, BUT, communism is an ideology that could work in certain instances. Maybe later we could go into a long discussion on the pros and cons of communism, and what it can do for the people, and what it cant.
Communism does NOT equal Death. People do. Even in a so-called Democratic government, there will never be democracy. On the issue of China and communism… well, that’s their problem. It seems to work for the majority, why worry about it?

“dropping the Atom bomb on Japan was a horrible but at the time a necessary life saver of Soldiers that were scheduled to invade in the latter part of 1945”

This is what Im talking about. The bomb was dropped five days after the Emperor of Japan surrendered. If you want, I can quote some historical facts to you. Also, how do you justify killing hundreds of people, just to save a few soldiers?

“ I take no pleasure in death. “

Neither do I. For your information, I’m a vegetarian. Don’t confuse the topic. The issue is not about death and killing, its about politics and perceptions.

“The Communist form of goverment is nothing but a brutal way of opressing the masses.”
That’s your opinion! You don’t live in a communist country do you? Why should you care anyways? If you have to ask the majority of Chinese people where their loyalty would be, you would most probably find them saying to their country. The same government that you critisise. RESPECT that. In a country such as China, to protect the people in this way, is maybe the best possible solution. Sometimes, one have to give, to be able to take. Have you ever read the book called ANIMAL FARM? We might not like it, but oppression in this way, is way better than total anarchi.
“”I've seen the opressed, seen the dead bodies and watched them bloat,they were on the ground,not the table. “”
Correction. You saw reports of the oppressed; you saw reports of the dead bodies. I saw it too. I feel sorry for them. I do pity them. I see and understand your point. But, we don’t always see the whole picture. We see visuals of dead bodies, and starved children. We all feel sorry for these people. What we see is just the effect. And it is not even the whole picture (Its like watching the end of a Action movie first, and see how the ‘hero’ kill the bad guy). What you don’t see, is the senseless killing of innocent farmers, invasions and hostile take overs of property (which was fairly bought and paid for), and RAPE. This, then mostly done or caused by outsiders. Non-citizens from neighboring countries. Don’t you expect your government to protect you from things like this? Every time masses are being slaughtered at once it makes the headlines, but daily, tens of thousands of people are being murdered (individually) who are not even being mentioned. Yeah I do understand why human rights groups act on events such as the slaughter of students at Tsquare, the mass executions in Nigeria, and I do see why the world get so agro, but as I said before, you see it your way, its your opinion.
Eg. The UN and CNN (mostly CNN) want people to think Sadam Hussein is the bad guy. Im not arguing about that, all I’m saying is that everytime the USA bombed and killed innocent people in the gulf war, there were riots in my country amongst angry Moslem fundamentalists against the USA. If they really felt oppressed, why then stand together and fight against the people who are supposable there to rescue them?
Why should governments intervene into the in-house regulations of other governments? Why should you have army aircraft from a distant country doing patrols in an area that does not even pose a threat to their country? Why should one country have to send troupes to Korea to get training is Jungle warfare, when there are no signs of war between these countries??
I live in Africa, and have been to many places in this continent. I honor and respect my people and the people of this place. I want you to look at the situation from a different view. When help is needed, why not give help in the form of support, education, and moral guidance, rather than to protest about something we don’t know much about.
Heck, I come from an ethnic minority group. My people are being threatened daily. We even had to face issues of ethnic ‘cleansing’ at some stage. I can tell you these things, because I am right in the middle of these things.

Politics are Politcs - Unless you can bring positve CHANGE, dont engage in senseless aruments about things you dont know.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Eddie,

To answer these questions, that's because those "rogue countries" are not fit to goven themselves. they don't have a modern political system and their government refuse to acknowledge the United States consitution, freedom of speech, human rights and the American way of life.

The world is a much safer place with the United States patrolling their coastlines. Do you ever consider the sacrifice these young American soldiers are making and the stress from the responsibilities the Presidant of the United States is going through knowing that the sons and daughters of America are risking their lifes to make the world a safer place?

I can tell you that I'm proud of this great nation and proud to be American.

If it was not for our great nation, we probably would not have the luxuary of having this conversation today. Instead, we'll probably be living under the communist oppression of Soviet or Chinese rule. Do you want that? Do you want to see your children and grand children and great grand children loose the most basic right of free speech and not being able to go down to the local K-Mart and buy themselves a pop soda?

You should be thankful for what you've got. god bless America, the fine people and our great President.

Maximus Materialize!

[tnwingtsun]

For once,thank you.

Eddie,you assume too much,I've seen them,not on TV
but up close and personal,have friends and family that have died because of that form of goverment.

My comments were aimed towards that form of goverment,if you choose to defend communism then I have something personal against you.

Get you facts straight,
If the PRC didn't have nukes aimed at me I would not be so concerned.

It was a Navy plane in international waters,
not an Army plane.

Why should one country send troups to Korea when there are no signs of war between these countries??

You have never patrolled the DMZ between North and South Korea,you have no clue what you're talking about.

I have, in addition to other places.


The USA Jungle Warfare School is not in Korea.

"dont engage in senseless aruments about things you dont know."

Right back at cha.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[BIU JI]

Down boy , easy fella easy !!
Would a demonstration drop of a nuclear bomb off the coast of Japan have got an ending to the war?

[Eddie]

Ego and Wingtsunstudent,

>Eddie,you assume too much,I've seen them,not on TV
but up close and personal,have friends and family that have died because of that form of goverment.>

Sorry for you. So do I. Lets not start compare war scars… That’s not the issue.

>My comments were aimed towards that form of goverment,if you choose to defend communism then I have something personal against you.>

One of the basic unspoken rules of a democratic society (freedom of speech- as you mention in your post), is freedom of choice and freedom of religion. You condemn the vary thing you stand for. You have personal things against people who defend communism? I don’t get it. Either way, I am no communist, and I don’t at all defend communism as in China and the old USSR. Many of these people quote the great master, Lau Tze. I wonder how many of them realize that there is one chapter in the Tao Deh Ching that covers exactly what we have been chatting about. As I said, and I made reference to the book Animal Farm, communism is an ideology that could very well work in a third world country. You seem to have a lack of understanding about the whole topic of Politics.

>Get you facts straight,
If the PRC didn't have nukes aimed at me I would not be so concerned.>

As I said, there are other ways to solve the problems. The issue with China vs America has been coming a long time. The flame got stronger when the UN bombed a Chinese embassy in Belgrade. I also understand your concerns. It’s a global threat, and not just a threat to the USA.

>It was a Navy plane in international waters,
not an Army plane.>

I use the term Army as a loose description for any form of Military institution. That’s the way we speak.

>You have never patrolled the DMZ between North and South Korea,you have no clue what you're talking about. I have, in addition to other places. >

aaaahhh… so now I see why this argument got so aggressive. One soldier to another. So tell me mr Soldier, what ARE you talking about? Enlighten me why you patrolled the DMZ between North and South Korea? Did the war not end? My Grandfather was in Korea.

>The USA Jungle Warfare School is not in Korea.>

Early last year, your country send troops to Korea to practice Jungle Warfare. It was much publisised, and I have seen reports. Im not going to argue about things such as that.

Now, to answer Ego’s statements,
>To answer these questions, that's because those "rogue countries" are not fit to goven themselves. they don't have a modern political system and their government refuse to acknowledge the United States consitution, freedom of speech, human rights and the American way of life.>

Ø are not fit to goven themselves.>

That’s your opinion. They have done so for the past 5000 years.

Ø they don't have a modern political system and their government refuse to acknowledge the United States consitution, freedom of speech, human rights and the American way of life>

Who is NOW trying to enforce their way on others? Acknowledge the United States constitution???? Why should they? They are not American. America is not trying to take over the world. Are they??

Ø The world is a much safer place with the United States patrolling their coastlines. >

I don’t argue with that.

>Do you ever consider the sacrifice these young American soldiers are making and the stress from the responsibilities the Presidant of the United States is going through knowing that the sons and daughters of America are risking their lifes to make the world a safer place?>

Yeah yeah. What about soldiers from other UN countries? The UN is not just made up by Americans only. I thank and respect any soldier that stand for what he believes in. It’s a code of honor. I think WTStudent can respect that.

Ø I can tell you that I'm proud of this great nation and proud to be American.>

And I’m proud of you being proud of your nation. Lets get on to what we were talking about. I NEVER once argued about the USA being bad and all… Our original discussion was about Wtstudent’s superiority complex. I was just showing him to lay of from accusing other countries from things he is not involved in.

Ø If it was not for our great nation, we probably would not have the luxuary of having this conversation today. Instead, we'll probably be living under the communist oppression of Soviet or Chinese rule. Do you want that? Do you want to see your children and grand children and great grand children loose the most basic right of free speech and not being able to go down to the local K-Mart and buy themselves a pop soda?

That’s just your opinion.

> You should be thankful for what you've got>

so that’s what I’ve been saying all along. NOW, respect others who might feel the same about their own governments. If you have no gain from anything, why get involved in things you don’t REALY care about.

Think of me as you will. You have no idea what I stand for. You don’t know my background (political or social). Don’t base your opinions on silly internet forums.

Please e-mail me privately WTStudent so that we can continue the discussion without taking up bandwidth on this great forum. My e-mail is mail@martialarts.co.za

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

tnwingtsun,

I agree with you. Some nations aren't fit to govenr themselves. That's why we have the United States and the modern weapons to make the world a safer place.

If only rogue nations like China would submit themselves to UN weapons inspection and reform their stance on human rights particuarly in Tibet and do away with ther autocratic govenment, China could one day be a great nation.

But no, the Chinese government continues to cause trouble with Taiwan and even had the audacity to ground one of America's spy plane.

For not following America's lead in political and economic reform China continues to have one of the worst polution records, inefficient production systems and a stiffling buracratic mentality.

Furthermore, China risk being bankrupt by engaging in an arms race with the US.

The best way to respond to US is simple - be an ally of the United States (like what Europe has done) and become a partner in the global police force in making the world a better place.

Maximus Materialize!

[Eddie]

Ego Extrodinaire,
please may I just ask you, How Old Are You?

Wingstun Student,
different topic... do you do WT under grandmaster Leong Ting and Keith Kernsbricht (Spelling might be wrong)? I have met many of the German WT guys, one of my friends was one of Keith's top students.

[Wah]

**** Ego, that is some big ass white talk...sorry to be racist but its sounds like you are being one. China continues...or is the oldest country in the world. And america is what? about 2 and a half centuries old? so wut if america is powerful right now...if the economy keeps goin in the same direction as it is goin now good ol' US of A ain't goin to be that strong long. Look throughout history...great nations wit enormus power lose power later on and become a weak country. This country is still young...so don't be so sure america will be as strong as it is now. Another Black Tuesday or war could put us way down on the list of world super powers. We already have lost alot of power in the UN...wut else is goin to be next. Sure china has bad points...such as autocratic governments...but sometimes its for the better or the worse. Thats mai 2 cents for 2day...if u got a problem wit my post...tell me straight up on this thread. ~peace~

If the river is red, take the muddy path - meeh :eek:

[tnwingtsun]

"aaaahhh… so now I see why this argument got so aggressive. One soldier to another. So tell me mr Soldier, what ARE you talking about? Enlighten me why you patrolled the DMZ between North and South Korea? Did the war not end? My Grandfather was in Korea"

If you do not know why I patrolled then mabe you should concern yourself with debating points you
have knowledge in.

But I'll give you a few facts,The war (1950-53) came to a "Cease Fire",there have been many cross boarder incidents,some bringing us closer to a second Korean War.

The "Official US Army JOTC (Jungle Operations Training Center) is not in South Korea.


"Early last year, your country send troops to Korea to practice Jungle Warfare. It was much publisised, and I have seen reports. Im not going to argue about things such as that."

Where did the reports come from??,do you trust everything you read??

Korea is not a tropical climate,yes it gets hot,but the US has many other schools to train their troops in Jungle Warfare.
There are many other types of training one as an American serviceperson has acess to in Korea.

The American Force Structure and deployment(minus Special ops and during wartime) is easily avalible to those who dig.
No secret there,just be careful on DOD websites and heed their warnings.

Many unit locations have changed since I got out of the fold but I have alot of friends who still serve and one thing that I do know about is the JOTC location.
But I don't see your fixation on this,what is your point??
What if JOTC was in Korea?,so what,
your SADF had many border disputes and many counter-insurgencie operations.

Just what is the issue here?,I stated my personal hatred of communism and their abuse of power,
my expeirence where they are concerned.
My opinion of my goverments survelence of their coasts is a given.

"Wtstudent’s superiority complex"

I feel that a democratic fedral republic is superior to communism,then I guess you're right about me in that way.

And yes,I come from Keith Kerspest and Leung Ting's line,why? are they communist?

;)

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

"**** Ego, that is some big ass white talk...sorry to be racist but its sounds like you are being one."

Woh there cowboy! Who's calling who racist. I was suggesting ways that would benefit the Chinese people. it is about the statement of the current government that shoots it's own university students. Do you represrnt the decrepid old guard that even the Chinese people dispise? What is "white talk". I've heard that there are many specise of sharks, the great white shark is one of many. But let me remind your there is now only one specise of humans!

"China continues...or is the oldest country in the world. And america is what? about 2 and a half centuries old? so wut if america is powerful right now...if the economy keeps goin in the same direction as it is goin now good ol' US of A ain't goin to be that strong long."

Hold your horses cowboy Wah! You must the the greatest economist since Adam Smith to forecast the demise of the US economy so far ahead into the future. Did you take lessons from Karl Marx on economic management that has made China the great nation that is today.

"Look throughout history...great nations wit enormus power lose power later on and become a weak country. This country is still young...so don't be so sure america will be as strong as it is now. Another Black Tuesday or war could put us way down on the list of world super powers."

Rein your horse there Wah! Now you're the politician with the good eye on the future. US has had many wars since the civil war and it doesn't seem it's satus of being a super power has decreased. Successful operation since the Persian Gulf in Kosovo. Do you get your news from state controled media?

"Sure china has bad points...such as autocratic governments...but sometimes its for the better or the worse."

Let us hear the good points there. Would you like to start with human rights on its own people, leading on to those in Tibet?

"Thats mai 2 cents for 2day...if u got a problem wit my post...tell me straight up on this thread."

You'll make a cowboy someday. If you want to shoot from the hips like we yanks do, try to shoot straight.

Maximus Materialize!

[Wah]

First off Ego, learn how to correctly spell words…maybe you should go back to school and take a few lessons on English and US history.

“Woh there cowboy! Who's calling who racist. I was suggesting ways that would benefit the Chinese people. it is about the statement of the current government that shoots it's own university students. Do you represrnt the decrepid old guard that even the Chinese people dispise? What is "white talk". I've heard that there are many specise of sharks, the great white shark is one of many. But let me remind your there is now only one specise of humans!”

Cowboy???!!!! Does it look like I’m some **** white boy? Anyway, yea rite now china is bad, but that’s because its communist. The university guys trying to get rid of that system of government. I’ll admit that china is doin pretty bad rite now and I hate communist. But we can’t do jack, its not like wutever u rite on here is goin to make a fricken difference. And by white talk…I meant white trash talking, not great white sharks u idiot.

“Hold your horses cowboy Wah! You must the the greatest economist since Adam Smith to forecast the demise of the US economy so far ahead into the future. Did you take lessons from Karl Marx on economic management that has made China the great nation that is today.”


Hey, if you took history lessons, if u actually went to school then you’ll realize that many great nations have fallen over time. Things are always in constant motion, one moment u have something, the next you don’t. and are u implying that I’m a f**king communist? Huh u little piece of white trash? I can jus tell by looking at wut the **** news paper is reporting to us. Raise in oil and gas prices, job layoffs all over the nation at high rates. Stock market dropping drastically, the USA losing many many seats and its power in the UN. Oh yea, they lost there power in the Human rights section of the UN…wtf would u say bout that? Jus look at wut the **** newspapers are forecasting. If stocks hit rock bottom, Great Depression 2. Times are already hard as it is, work is not easy too find and pay is usually not that great.

“Rein your horse there Wah! Now you're the politician with the good eye on the future. US has had many wars since the civil war and it doesn't seem it's satus of being a super power has decreased. Successful operation since the Persian Gulf in Kosovo. Do you get your news from state controled media?”

Ok, I’ll rein my horse, so I can get off to shove my foot up ur ass. Look at this, during both WWI and II, the US always stayed sidelined till near the end. During that time if created items for use during the war to sell to other countries. It made money because of this, and because they entered the war near the end, when all the other countries were running out of funds, soldiers, and weapons, foods, etc. The US was fresh because it wasn’t involved. And look when they tried to start a war in ‘Nam, wtf happened…they got their asses whooped. And ‘Nam is a **** poor ass third world country. Sad. And the Persian gulf, and kosovo gee…all they did was fly over the **** countries and jus drop bombs. I’m not trying to bad mouth the US that much but still ur making it hard for me not too.

“You'll make a cowboy someday. If you want to shoot from the hips like we yanks do, try to shoot straight.”

Cowboy? Hah…sorry it jus wouldn’t be meeh. I don’t use guns…unlike u…fist are my weapons and that’s that.

If the river is red, take the muddy path - meeh :eek:

[dubj]

I wouldn't want to live in a communist country, but America hasn't always treated it's citizens the most humanely. Both China and the US have shot their own students. I think things like that have more to do with the bad side of human nature when things get out of hand, like when martial law is declared. But I thought this topic was about the triads and freemasons?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

"Cowboy???!!!! Does it look like I’m some **** white boy?"

Can't non-whites be cowboys. Or are you too racist to consider that idea?

"And by white talk…I meant white trash talking... Huh u little piece of white trash?",

More racist slurs from Wah!

"job layoffs all over the nation at high rates. Stock market dropping drastically, the USA losing many many seats and its power in the UN. Oh yea, they lost there power in the Human rights section of the UN…wtf would u say bout that? Jus look at wut the **** newspapers are forecasting. If stocks hit rock bottom"

Yeah so, that's economics for you. some good times some bad times. Under a totalatarian Chinese oppression - all the masses remain poor from high level corruption!

"Great Depression 2. Times are already hard as it is, work is not easy too find and pay is usually not that great."

I would imagine that it is difficult for a racist to find work.

"..so I can get off to shove my foot up ur ass."

And you can shoot the students at Tinemmman square (again) when you become the next ruler of China. So much for your respect of free speech.

"I don’t use guns…unlike u…fist are my weapons and that’s that."

Just like the heros during the boxer rebellion. They got slaughtered by the Western powers. Are you saying you wish to be one of them?

Woh Woh Woh. Rein in your racist talk or someone might ban you from this forum. You can do it cowboy!

Maximus Materialize!

[Eddie]

>If you do not know why I patrolled then mabe you should concern yourself with debating points you have knowledge in.>

Whatever… you don’t seem to get me here. You sound like a five year old with this statement. I suspect we are not on the same frequency here.

>Where did the reports come from??,do you trust everything you read??>

I got this information from a reliable source. You seem to hammer on senseless arguments that have no real relevance to the topic or discussion at hand. What difference does it make whether the school is in Korea, Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia or India for that matter. That’s not the issue. What I asked is, what are the USA doing there? Are you planning on invading the rest of the world??

>What if JOTC was in Korea?,so what, your SADF had many border disputes and many counter-insurgencie operations.>

The SANDF only patrolled border lines that caused a direct threat to our nation. Eg. We controlled the border between Angola and the old South West Africa (Namibia) during the early 80’s. At that stage, Namibia was still depended on our government, and it was seen as an extra “province” of our country. We also patrolled lines between Botswana, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, as these countries pose a direct threat to our nation. Vietnam, does not pose a threat to your nation. The Middle East does not pose a threat to your nation. Korea, does not pose a threat to your nation and China does not pose a direct threat to your nation. The issue between China and Taiwan is their own concern. I’m sorry to be so cruel (my best friend is Taiwanese and served in the Taiwan army), but it is not our problem.

>I feel that a democratic fedral republic is superior to communism,then I guess you're right about me in that way.>

That’s were you are wrong. Maybe because of your lack of experience in this matter. Go to your local University that covers political studies, and have a little chat to the PS professor. You will realize that despite of what the UN want you to think, Communism, Socialism, Democracy and all the other ‘management ways’ all have their benefits and one could be better in some instances as other. Kersprech and Master Ting would argue that WT is the ULTIMATE for self defense (as you will read in Blitzdefence), Rickson Gracy would tell you Brazilian Jiu Jutsu is the Ultimate. These are all your opinion. Different strokes for different folks. Democracy works for your great nation – and we envy you. Don’t for one moment think we have not all thought about moving to the States at one point or another. Communism might work for China. That’s why (if you watched CNN this week), the majority of Chinese still support the communist government. I don’t go to your house and interfere with the way your parents raise you.
Remember, people are different. People are influenced and controlled by their cultural, religious, philosophical and historical believes. Different cultures have different ways. For an example, a week or so back, we saw some guy in the USA being convicted and imprisoned for having 5 wives. Your cultural and religious support base dictates a one-partner relationship (as a matter of opinion, so do I). Other cultures and religions do not support this idea. If, in Africa, if they had to convict and imprison all those with two or more spouses, they might as well build a cage over the whole continent (removing the obvious minority people from European decent of course) it would be much easier. You will clearly see that your ideas and views are not supported by the people (although everyone likes the glamour of being American). Hitler had some ideas and plans for the world, did you agree with his ideas?

>And yes,I come from Keith Kerspest and Leung Ting's line,why? are they communist? >

Not communists, more like a German supremist (all respect). Speak to Keith and his students, and you will realize that WT is no longer a Chinese Martial Art. They consider it an European Self Defense system. They claim to teach so many of the Eastern Block Countries’ armies (Hungary, Bulgaria, Armenia, Turkey, Romania etc.), and they took the Chinese, out of WT. That’s why, if you ask the WT guys about the origin of their style, they will tell you that it is based on European fighting principles. Read On Single Combat and Blitzdefense. Have a little chat to them (Emin, Kersprecht, etc), and ask them how they feel about Hitler.

Conclusion
In your defense wingtsunstudent, you make a good opponent . You seem to be a person with strong principles and good code of ethics. You stand by your convictions, and I respect that. We don’t see that kind of personality to much anymore.

Ego Extraordinaire

>For not following America's lead in political and economic reform China continues to have one of the worst pollution records, inefficient production systems and a stiffling buracratic mentality. >

> inefficient production>

C’mon! You did not say, « inefficient production” did you? If this was then the case, why does China have a contract with your government to supply them with Berets for military use? Give me a break. What Asian countries forgot about productivity, the western world must still learn.

[DarkKnight]

The Atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima on
August 6, 1945.
The Japanese did not surrender until September 12, 1945. That was exactly 37 days later.
Read a book.

[Eddie]

>The bomb was dropped five days after the Emperor of Japan surrendered.>

Darkknight, go read the line again. Emperor Hirohito retreated (surrendered) before the bomb was dropped. The USA already knew they won the war, and they were already aware of the retention of the Emperor's position.

Dwight Eisenhower said of the atomic bombings of Japan, "it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing." (Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63, pg. 108).

I do suggest you go read the book called "The Day Man Lost" by the Pacific War Research Society. Also read "Japan's Longest Day". It has a detailed account of the bombing of hiroshima.

[DarkKnight]

Quote any book you like. The FACT is that the bomb was dropped in August. The Surrender didn't come until SEPTEMBER.
Here this may help http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/japsurr.html
DarkKnight-

[Watchman]

>>>Emperor Hirohito retreated (surrendered) before the bomb was dropped. The USA already knew they won the war, and they were already aware of the retention of the Emperor's position.<<<

The Emperor wasn't in authority to make a surrender. The Japanese military ruled the country, as it has in one form or another since the first Shogunate. The emperor has been nothing more than a figurehead for a long long time. A little critical thinking should go along with your history study.

Watchman&reg;

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

The allies were winning the war before the bomb was dropped but the Japs still occupied many of the islands in Asia. Exrtracting them from these islands have resulkted in heavy allied casualties - remeber Okinawa. It is costly difficult to launch amphibious assaults against well dug in enemy lines. That's why the US dropped the bombs!

Maximus Materialize!

[Stumblefist]

Well a few months ago i was talking to an American ex-marine in HK. HE was waiting on an boat for the order to invade Japan when thay dropped the big one. They knew they were going to have to take japan rock by rock and droppping the bomb saved many american lives. Is that a disappointment to you eddie?
There was a great JOY throughout asia when they levelled H and N and ended the war. Especailly in HK and china where the japs still were still mistreating and executing prisoners and the locals. That spoil your fun eddie?
I live in communist china. I guarantee that it is a dark world here maintained by lies and illusions. China uses America as an enemy for 2 reasons. First they are afraid the people will discover what freedom really meansin every way even to quality of life and economic struture. As a foreigner i am not allowed to talk about "economic secrets" as well as discuss current events. ie. they don't want people to know how businees could be run nor do they want them to know about or the truth about any news. A girl was murdered down the street. It's not good for the public image so it's not reported, and the murderer is not caught. They always have their proiorities.
Second reason. They need an enemy to deflect attention from the real problem which is the corrupt government and corrupt because it's power is absolute. If they didn't have america they'd go after some other country. The world DOES have something to fear from this kind of governmernt. They have internal forces which push they to aggress against other countries. And their fear of the freedom of other countries makes them want to destroy those countries to eliminate the threat.
Chinese business? The army owns many businesses, people get sentenced to life imprisonment in army factories to make jackets sold in other countries.
If someone in the government needs a heart transplant, you'd beeter not get arrested in Qinghai for littering, they just might be short of livers or hearts that day.
Chinese weopons are sold to terrorist orgs. I think the world has some reason to fear china.

[tnwingtsun]

Thank you,well said.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

The oppressive tyrany of the Chinese communist regime must end for the sake of humanity, freedom and the American way of life.

god bless america

Maximus Materialize!

[Eddie]

stumblefist-
Thanx, you went back to the original topic. I do not appreciate your sarcasm, but I do feel the tone in your post.

Let me just clear some issues. I am not against the USA in any way. If my posts made you think this, I apologise. I have some good friends in the States. My original points were only against Military intervention (from the USA) into countries such as China etc. I have this specific concern, because I, and most people around me, can feel the change of living in a society, which was almost on the brink of civil war. If politics went into a different direction, we would have all ended up killing ourselves. Thank God for Mr. Mandela.

It didn’t work in Vietnam, it only turned brother against brother, and made enemies of friends. It is not the way to reconcile and unite a nation. Almost 30 years later, Vietnam has still not recovered completely. I am also involved in countries such as Angola and the DRC. You mention you live in China, but your profile says you are from Calif USA. I gather you are not a native Chinese, and therefore your opinion of life in China is somewhat objective and limited to your experience as a resident in that country (influenced by your memories of your homeland). You are obviously not a voter. After your work is done in China, you will return to your country – I suppose. I ask you again, why do so many people support that government, if they do not feel satisfied with the ruling way?

I do realize that with my viewpoint, I stand against most people on this forum. As I said before, I appologise if it seems like I am against the USA or its people. I am for liberation, but unless liberation comes from the people involved, it will never really work. As I said before, I experience this, every single day of my life. Unless you have experienced what I am talking about, I guess you would not know.

Stumblefist and tswingtsun, just because I don’t agree with you on some points, does not mean I am against you (or your nation). Remember, its my democratic right to disagree.

[Stumblefist]

eddie
i used to do a lot of wargaming, which are not just games but realistic simulations. The "invasion japan" had no partial scenario, no take half the island, it would have been a fight for every rock.
now no games: - the historical record - 70,000 and 40,000 fried at Nag and hiroshima. The offical estimate made to Truman of estimated American war casualties to invade Japan was 193,000 American servicemen casualties including 40,000 dead. Truman decided against bombing Tokyo, for resons of political analysis, not humanitarianism. Simply that if Tokyo was bombed Japan would be utterly destroyed and there was real fear the survivors would become COMMUNISTS. The idea was to NOT destroy the japanese goverment.
The point eddie? If you don't care about the deaths of americans or like to see us dead you ARE against our nation. And its all the worse if your thinking is so far from reality you don't see the consequences of your statements.
The ending of the war was not worth one american death. It was a japanese war of aggression... "Pearl Harbour" ring a bell? nice new movie and now that there is some distance from the event the film is even more realistic. It's no time to foreget the past. The same forces are at work in asia.
That american vet survived 3 island invasions and was still alive in HK last year. He has no doubt as to the worth of frying 110,000 of an aggressor nation and neither do I.
You are also quoting the wrong general, Douglas Mcarthur not Eisenhower was in charge of the pacific campaign.
And about those peaceful communists who don't interfere etc.etc. ..mao poured his troops across the border into Korea.
When they can they will.

[Stumblefist]

Thats a goverment feature column., trutha and rumours, i always find it so funny, the masters of truth telling the people what are just rumors.
Well, eddie again...
about those people who support their government over here, i think i have the task to describe an elephant to a blind man.
Let me quote the chinese predsident's recent statements to the Hong Kong press:
"you are sooo naive"
"you are tooo simple" "tai jiandan"
I think he was talking to you eddie too. Actually he was telling the press was hk was in store for in a few years time, that they would have no more freedom to embarass him with questions. Another humorous or not so humorous point: those remarks were never reported in the mainland Chinese news.
Also your ideas about me are a little too simple, but i can tell you an outsider here can understand a lot more than a native observer.
What happens in China, eddie, is not a natural human process, this is the world of newspeak, doublespeak, history revision, the gulag camps for dissenters, information control. You as an outsider couldn't begin to understand what you see here. Oh yes, nationalism is fomented and the people are vey simple about it. The terible thing is how effective it all is. Terrible how human beings can be so easily conrolled like puppets.People live all there lives knowing nothing about their own country or other countries, and believe totally what they are fed.
The reponses you are looking at are programmed or the results of manipulation of pride etc. They do not last very long, which is why the HK people call mainland people the 5 second people. They burn down macdonalds one day for a government response and the next day they are blank again. If you look deep at "old one hundred names" thoughts on the government you will find hatred of corruption, fear of complaining and mostly a puzzled blankness. They truely are puzzled, they can't figure it out. They often come to me not beliving this or believing that but just puzzled at the news either from their own or from outside. The government fears that blankness, which is why there are thousnads of military magazines published with proud men marching with bayonets and planes soaring and pictures on Chinese national magazines of US presidents with Hitler mustaches. if you lived here you might occasionally think there was a war on from the barrage of propaganda.
There is no communism, thats the real horror of it, they purged all the intellectuals a long time ago, the only thing that is let is the machine. The intellectuals that they purged are "model heros". Nothing is as it seems. Everyone here knows that. Everyone learns to lie from the moment they are cradled. The real truth here is silence.

[Stumblefist]

There was a comment that both commies and American governments have shot students (see the difference? China = 1 party, therefore say commies not chinese governments).
The difference is that in America we know where the bodies are buried.
China has had more than one Tiananmen. Surprise. surprise. And more than one place where they have suppressed protests and uprisings. Don't feel so bad about not knowing, even the chinese don't know. That's the point of burning the bodies.
Burning the bodies? Yes the troops at the last tiananmen burned the dead bodies on site and/or carted they off places unknown. After the incident, there was a heap of unclaimed bicyles dumped for the scrap collectors.All over Beijing were notices pasted by anxious mothers and fathers: "Have you seen my son? my daughter?".
No bodies, they even disappeared from the hospitals.
So that's the freedom difference.

[tnwingtsun]

Which reminds me of an apology to China.


We apologize to the People's Republic of China for allowing our reconnaissance plane to be hit by your poorly trained,hot-dogging fighter pilot while our plane was flying in international airspace.
Also we're extremely sorry we have to conduct suveillance missions to monitor your country simply because you have nuclear missiles pointed at the United States of America.
You could up your standerds by instructing your pilots in methods of international fighter intercept.Despite your shortcomings,we regret that he didn't realize that our EP-3E aircraft was prop-driven and flew his aircraft through our propeller arc,which downed his F-8 and nearly killed 24 American crewmen and women.
We apologize for our unarmed plane chewing up your state-of-the-art aircraft,particulary when our aircraft was set on auto-pilot and traveling on a straight heading.
(Look ,Wei,no hands!)
We're tremendously sorry that Wang Wei's survival training and equipment was so inadequate that he couldn't survive until your poorly trained and equipped navy could locate him and doubly sorry that you turned down the American offer for search and rescue assistance.
We're saddened that you violated international law and arrested the crew of an aircraft that leagally diverted to your Hainan airfeild under emergency conditions caused your pilots actions.
We're sorry that you violated international law and boarded a state aircraft.
And we sincerely regret your international loss of face since the entire planet now sees you for the enemy of freedom,truth and justice that you truly are.
Your Tiananmen Square mindset remains.We are sorry that you consider yourself a world superpower when you in actuality a Third World national in which your workers earns less than 10 cents a day.
We're sorry that you were able to steal nuclear secrets from us and that Bill Clinton couldn't seek a thrid term(a minor constraint called the U.S. Constitution,you know).
But we heartily thank you for the soft money your nation contributed to his two election campains.
We solemnly regret that you haven't grasped the lesson of the collaspe
of the Soviet Union and the commercial success of tiny Taiwan that rogue nations are hardly the wave of the future.
BUT MOST OF ALL WE'RE SORRY FOR THE CHINESE PEOPLE WHO SUFFER THROUGH THEIR LEADERS INCOMETENCE AND BRUTALITY.


:mad:

[tnwingtsun]

Pearl Harbor was,among other things the first mass martyrdom of what we've come to know as the Greastest generation: 2,403 people died there-with awful suddeness.The first thing to understand is that this was just a drop in the cauldron that was WW11,which globally,cost at least 50 million lives.We americans lost more in our victories-more than6,000 at Iwo Jima,for example 12,000 at Okinawa-than we did in defeat.
408,439 service members gave their lifes in the war.
You survived however you could and that need tended to drive out noble sentiments.
This is a theme Paul Fussell,takes up brutally
in his essay "Thank God For The Atom Bomb".
His argument is simple:better them than us-them being the Japanese civilians at Hiroshima and Nagasaki,us being American troops (Fussell among them) poised to invade the Japanese homeland in 1945.
Citing Former Marine E.B. Sledge's eyewitness account of Pacific combat,Fussell writes of Marines "sliding under fire down a shell pocked ridge,slimy with mud and liquid dysentery....into the maggoty Japanese and U.S.M.C. corpses at the bottom,vomitimg as the maggots burrowed into their own foul clothing."
The fury and frenzy of the Pacific war-the Japanese always fought to the death,avoiding shameful surrender-are not much remarked.
Japanese war crimes-the 250,000 dead at Nanking,the 100,000 civilian deaths when they torched Manila-are largely elided in our popular histories.So is the fact that our Marines boiled Japanese skulls clean and carried then around as souvenirs.But this fact is undeniable:the war blanched all moral niceties from everyones consciousness.Naturally our troops sobbed with relief when they heard the bomb had been dropped.
It was for the men ****her behind the lines to debate the morality of the bomb.

They were,surly,the unluckiest generation,emerging from depression into total war without a break.They were,equally,the most dutiful generation.They may have lacked any sophisticated understanding why they fought.But they stood when they were told to,advanced when they were ordered to and died because,at the time they were at the right age for the killing fields.
They were basically democracy's profoundly human champions and,yes,victims.
As a beneficiary of their exertions,I'd somehow rather remember them in their imperfection than as the subjects of a fatuous slogan.
Lets not cheapen what they accomplished Eddie.

[Eddie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Lets not cheapen what they accomplished Eddie.
[/quote]
I wont ;)

off the topic tnwingtsun.
My friend told me that Keith R. Kernspecht might be coming here soon, and I will have the oppertunity to meet the guy.

[Stumblefist]

tnwingtsun: I like your "apology". One should note the anti-americanism in China is NOT a support of the chinese government. It is just an attempt to deflect the people's attention from the true problem which is the government itself. It actuality, in their hearts, once the knee-jerk pre-programmed reactions are over you can see practically everybody here worships america and its' economic sucess ("prosperity" is literally one of the chinese gods)and they want to go there. Many of the educated are always listening to VOA or BBC and are truly puzzled by the contradictions they hear. They really can't understand it because their basic foundation of knowledge has been limited and programmed their whole lifes.
One bitter person i met said "they didn't even tell us that humans had walked on the moon until 20 years later."
The government controls the population information intake from cradle to grave. The people are like lab rats in one gigantic newspeak pych lab.
That system might be breaking down.
They had all the primary school kids at the department store the other day, signing a big poster to honor the "hero".
What hero? i asked?
Why the pilot who crashed his plane to destroy the american spy plane, they answered.
"And they never apologized" said another.
...teaching kids to hate.
The next week the chinese newspaper said china was demanding compensation for the plane which the americans crashed into.
No, no one would say that's a contradiction. This is china, everything can make sense.
They do need need a little spying on. They're ruining HK. I hope they never get their mitts on Taiwan.
........................
You are wasting your energy on eddie. Logic and intellectual searching means nothing to him. This is a common attitude where some one just wants to "get" America.
American is every kind of people, chinese included. People who hate countries instead of political systems are in the wrong century.
You deserve every bit of my sarcasm eddie. BTW, "Americans are the best critics of America" - thornstein veblen. You really can't outdo america's own critics eddie. They are much more powerful and effective than you, and have made america strong. I guess America does everything best, you will just have to settle for being a second-rate sour grapes critic.
Also, america won the cold war, eddie. Welcome to a world without the threat of a communist USSR. You are safe now.
Let's see.. america withdraws from vietnam, the kymer rouge exterminates over one third of it's own population....Yes, i can see why the communists love their governments. Makes sense to me...NOT.
Let's see. i'm straining my brain, couldn't the americans have given South Africa to Tojo in return for a peaceful surrender? Then they could have set up a Camp 731 in J-Burg and by now Eddie could have had some keen insights into the refinements of Jap. WW 2 peaceful sentimentality.
I still can't understand why the jap. high command didn't commit hara-kiri en masse when they lost according to their own philosophy. When guys surrendered in WW 2 they would just shoot one or two in sheer disgust that they were so unmanly to surrender. See "knights of the Bushido" Lord Russel of liverpool for much much more.

[This message was edited by stumblefist on 06-15-01 at 10:27 AM.]

[tnwingtsun]

Keith R. Kernspecht might be coming here soon.
You'll be lucky to train with him,he's only been to the States once,he went to LA,I missed that one.

Which system do you practice?
Back to MAs,I would like to know your impressions
on Keith Kernspecht.

I have never asked "them" on their veiws concerning Hitler.
Maybe you can fill me in.


Stumblefist,
"Americans are the best critics of America" - thornstein veblen. You really can't outdo america's own critics eddie."

And thank god for that,I am one of her biggest critics,that is my right,just as my right to embrace her and change her shortcomings from within.
BTW,after only three posts I was booed and banned off the Chinese Military Board. :D

[Stumblefist]

Hi Eddie,
You didn't answer my question about dead americans, but i guess i know the answer. Does it give you a special thrill deep inside? A special tingle? A special happiness? A sense of victory?
Would you have rathered the japs nuked LA?
Did you live near a sheep farm when you were young? Do you hear the lambs? Did you sneak out to watch? How do you feel about their screaming eddie?
The screaming of the lambs?
Do you still hear them?

[Eddie]

Stumblefist,
I ignored some of your previous posts, because of a few reasons.
1- I did not want the post to turn into one of those aggressive, pointless, arguments that takes up more bandwidth than anything (but so be it)
2- Your political views are naïve and very immature, and you don’t seem to understand the issue at hand,
3- You don’t seem to respect the very thing your nation is build upon, that is freedom of speech and opinion, and mutual respect to that right,
4- You seem to have misread, or misinterpreted my points,
5- Your sarcasm and lack of respect for fellow contributors are starting to annoy and irritate made.
6- You made up your mind, and formed an opinion of me, based on your own scale, and it seems hopeless to try to make you see the reality.
7- Logic and common sense, coupled with history and human nature studies seem to slip you. You seem to have no understanding of these issues and how it affects politics.
8- I don’t want to keep defending my views, if you make no effort to try to understand my views, and where I’m coming from. You have no respect for me, and you have no respect for my views, why should I bother.

I have no agenda or ill feelings against the USA or its people. I don’t know where you read that, or how on earth you actually came to this conclusion. Let me explain myself once again, and summarize my points. Maybe then you might understand. Simply put, my arguments were only against military intervention (from the USA or any other country for that matter) into internal foreign government affairs. I am all for liberation, but liberation must come from within the country or government itself. If not, there is no chance that this kind of forced liberty will work. We saw this over and over again. Politics and philosophies are dictated by personal cultures and traditions. What works for one nation, does not work for another. What works for your Nation, might never work for China, Africa or any other nation for that matter. Once you understand that culture, religion, Philosophy, Social and economical backgrounds of people are different, you might understand that these issues dictate certain values and believes. RESPECT that People are different. VERY MUCH different. Your views are different to mine, and vice versa. That’s what makes us human. I might not understand certain cultural rituals done by my neighbour, but I respect that. Back to the issue – I’ll use examples.

With June 16 passed this weekend, I can use this example to illustrate my points. On this day, in 1976, the black students in Sowetho (a township that was formally only for Black people), marched against certain issues the government wanted to force upon them. The Police (yes the White Police and White government) opened fire on these youths and many were injured, and some got killed. For the first time, the world witnessed the brutality of our previous government. Although many lost their lives, the cause was not hopeless. Twenty five years later, these youths are reaping the results of their struggle, and they DESERVE it. They got through the whole deal themselves, and they know all about liberation. They tasted it, the experienced it, they lived it. Little intervention from abroad).

Twenty five years later, our nation is reconciling and rebuilding itself. We have one of the world’s most liberal constitutions, and we are an upcoming nation with many prospects. YES, we do have allot of problems in this, but this is understandable as we are building an entire nation from the ruins. And yes, many times we wished we could live in the USA, and the US lifestyle as one member had put it, but we are much better off than Vietnam and many other nations that took a different approach to the one our leaders took. We realized what we need each other. Whites (lets be blunt) needs Blacks, needs Asian etc. We all have a role to play in shaping this nation. If liberation did not come from within, and if liberation was forced upon our land (By military actions from other countries ) things might have not looked as rosy as now. Let me tell you honestly, if things went differently, and we went to war (Civil War), we would have turned against ourselves (just like Vietnam). The majority of white people in SA are from mixed German, Dutch and English decent. Many of us comes from strong families with a great military history (my family tree is entirely made up from soldiers and worriers- its in our blood). Same as with the Native African people in this land. Sadly to say, despite of my political objections, I would have stood for my country (our old government) and my people, just as I will stand for my country now. I would have done it, to save my people. Just as you will do, if you would have gone to Vietnam for eg.. An enemy of your nation, is a threat to you. It becomes a threat to everyone, even innocent people. This, in actual fact, divides nations. No one accomplishes anything, instead, it sets precedence for the future, and that loophole will always be there, no matter what other government may rule the nation.

By making enemies with China, the USA stand the threat to not just the people of China, but also the Chinese Americans, and other nations who ally with China. Too many people will suffer from the consequences of war. Don’t you think your government knows that? Don’t you think there are people in your government with higher intellect than the average Military Captain? Instead of giving military support, why not give economical support? Try find common grounds for every one involved, and create a platform for these people to reconcile and work out their own differences. It WORKED in our case, it can in China. The difference between SA and China was, that SA was to small for the USA to really care about. We stood no real threat to the US government in any way (military or economically), and thus the people were not really important for your leaders. This same thing is happening to other countries across the world and Africa. We are considered the leaders in Africa, and our president is considered a leader for the continent. He does not get involved in the politics of dark Africa (DRC, Zimbabwe, Mozambique) because he knows that this is not the right way.

Yes, there are Red Cross organizations, Human Rights Commissions, and other relief organizations that tries to get involved in rescuing people. I do support these gestures, but one must try to define “Victim” in this case. Very often the so-called “Victims” are not the ones we see on CNN and Sky News. The real victims are not those people with flies flying around their mouths, with no food or water. It goes much deeper than that.

Remember, the coin always has two sides. Politics are very involved. Where people are involved, it is very difficult to pinpoint who exactly are the victims and who are the ‘criminals’. Instead of getting wrapped up in senseless arguments about who’s right and who’s wrong, rather focus on what am I going to do to make a POSITIVE change to the World. Military intervention and KILLING, is not a positive change. Maybe your government should consult with (arguably the world’s BEST leader thus far) Mr. Nelson Mandela about these issues. He knew that this kind of intervention we spoke about in this post, would NOT liberate or reconcile a nation.

I wish to withdraw from this discussion. We are wasting way too much time, energy and bandwidth with arguing about issues such as these. I also know that whatever I say, you will try to belittle and challenge me. I’m not interested in going into a fight over an internet discussion forum. You wont reach anything, neither will I. Lets sit back, observe, and let history repeat itself. I hope you will then be satisfied. Until then, Back off with your sarcastic remarks and innuendos. You don’t know me!

[Eddie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Did you live near a sheep farm when you were young? Do you hear the lambs? Did you sneak out to watch? How do you feel about their screaming eddie?
The screaming of the lambs?
Do you still hear them? [/quote]

Your point?

Although your reference to movie themes is an interesting one indeed, I find it hard pressed to make the connection with the topic. Once again, your sarcasm slips me.

[Eddie]

Tnwingtsun,

I will let you know what I think about Kernsprecht. I must say, if he is anything like his students, I will have no problem with the guy.

My wife is a 2nd Generation German. We all relate to one another in some way.
Ask “them” about their views on Hitler?
Although most Germans feel that Hitler was a good leader, I don’t think they all supported his ideas. Germans are people too, just like us J.

[Stumblefist]

Eddie said:
"Until then, Back off with your sarcastic remarks and innuendos. You don’t know me!"
....................
Well, i'm sorry to say i am forced, yes forced to use sarcasm.
The first reason is that it is my constitutional right in the guarantee of free speech. Now since we are on an international board i am compelled to demonstrate the freedom of my country. Truly, sarcasm has maded America great. Now eddie if you are from one of those countries where sarcasm is forbidden, i truly commisserate. Perhaps we can send the sarcasm peace corp to help youse.
The second reason is that after i got my degree in psych i went on to take postgraduate studies at the Sacremento Institute of Avacodo Sarcasm. I owe it to muy mentors to utilize fully what i've been taught.
The third reason is (and here i have consulted my CMA book of ettiquete and it says that under orders and threats i am supposed to defend my "face" to the maximum. But gee, I really don't believe this ego junk, well who cares, the point is my mother says i can be sarcastic if i wanna be. And if you don't like it eddie you can just try dealing with her, i know i can't.
Look eddie sarcasm intolerance is a serious weakness in your peace strategy to save the world and destroy america. Couldn't you write to Nelson Mandela for some help?

[This message was edited by stumblefist on 06-20-01 at 09:24 AM.]

[Stumblefist]

This discussion is relavant to CMA and The art of war and the 36 strategisms. Whether we consider how we deal with nations or individuals the processes is the same.
Eddie said: "You don’t know me!"
Gee did i get it wrong? Aren't you the anti-american who sees america as evil because they destroyed (interfered with the internal afffairs of) the Nazis, the Jap Bushido Empire, The USSR, the North Koreans and even as far back as the Boxers in 1900. Did i miss something? Oh yes the clandestine American Agitprop Bureau of Sarcasm seeding the defenceless world with insidious sarcasm.
Well eddie, i could send you the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, and the Kuder Interest Test. Just check off the boxes , post back to me and i'll know you better. I promise not to post the results on "Gonzo Links" nor will i pass them on to the "CIA".
But i'm sorry to say i'm not running psychotherapy groups and i can't help you too much. You have such a long list of armoured defences it is EXACTLY like dealing with a neurotic patient. I know i am obligated to answer you in order to "help" you. Yes, i must expose the illogic and irrationality step by step until we break therough find the REAL emotions, what they are about, deal with them and get you back into dealing with the real world. It is such a long and difficult process and you are not even paying me! So i'm glad you decided to retreat into your armour and withdraw.
However, let me do a little and point out a few contracticions in your behaviour:
You say others do not allow you free speech, but the use of it by others leads you to aggressive (and seems physically aggressive) behaviour with threats and suggestions of violence (your comment about wanting to fight over an internet discussion). I really see behind your "supposed" desire for a peaceful world a likely world of frustration and anger. Now eddie, what does Nelson say about solving your interpersonal problems with violence. Are you a some kind of a bully or something like a wife-beater eddie?
Does the "world" want to meddle with your internal affairs, eddie? Is that what you see when you look out into the world?
I have a suggestion. Why not take up a whole body martial art as a hobby. I hear it is very therapeutic,.. In 10 or 15 years you should feel just fine.

[Colin]

stumblefist. Didn't America sell planes and ships to the Argies to use against the British?

All. The US keep Sadam Hussein in power because they can control him. They know if he'e taken out Iraq will become a closed Islamic state like Iran.

But my main point is that many people here in the UK are quite concerned that Bush won your highly organised election, because he is going to undo so much of the good work and damage so many of the international relations that Clinton helped forge.
That plus distroy the enviroment, dig up Alaska, burn more fossil fuel etc.
Why oh why did you let the idiot into power?
The whole world ( and I mean whole) laughed out loud at the US election fiasco.

To eddie, chill man I know where you're coming from.

Note: this is my only comment on this thread.


regards
Colin............

[Stumblefist]

Eddie said:
------------------
"Your point?
Although your reference to movie themes is an interesting one indeed, I find it hard pressed to make the connection with the topic. Once again, your sarcasm slips me."
-----------------------------------------------
Eddie, i have just recently received word from the Klingon Empire the this involves something which the human beings call "Humor". I have 4 CRAY supercomputers working on this secret code right now and as soon as i crack it we'll deliver the secret to the Chairman and save the World together. Don't worry!
Please give my best regards to "Data" and "Spock".
.....
Captain Kirk, please ask Scottie to beam me up, my work is all finished now, and the base is overrun with Aliens.
.........................................

[Stumblefist]

The above quote is an inscription on a Brit grave in HK, died Xmas day 1941 fighting the Japs.
.............................................
Well colin, looks like youse guys are sore losers, we kicked youse out in 1776, I'm not surprised you don't like our presidents. But by all means criticize away, that's what we are here for, to listen and grow correct our mistakes and become stronger. Thanks for your help. I hope you can help Zhang Zemin the same way.
Just don't ask us to save Europe again, we're getting pretty tired of that.
There are 2 good things about Bush:
1. He's keeping the reds out of Taiwan
2. He has a good hat.

[Celestial Amiboshi]

I've read that the Republican party in the United States is more rightist than the right wing parties in your country. Is this true?

"Apres Moi; le deluge."

[tnwingtsun]

The US keep Sadam Hussein in power because they can control him. They know if he'e taken out Iraq will become a closed Islamic state like Iran.

GOOD!!,do you have a better idea??

"Didn't America sell planes and ships to the Argies to use against the British?"

Yes we did,way before the Falklands conflict,they were outdated A-4 Skyhawks,what did ALOT more damage to british Warships were the French built
Air-To-Surface missles

Now go Beoch to the Frogs.

Al Gore and Bill Clinton should have been on the table with Tim McVeigh for treason.

They are still guilty.

Celestial Amiboshi,you don't even have a dog in this hunt.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Celestial Amiboshi]

I really have no intention of getting involved in your discussion. It was an honest question.

"Apres Moi; le deluge."

[tnwingtsun]

No it was not,why would you ask someone from Briton a question about the US Republican party??

Do you collect Jane Fonda movies? :rolleyes: :eek:

[Celestial Amiboshi]

No, I asked him how rightist the UK's conservative parties when compared to the US Republicans. So I asked him about his own parties.

The reason I asked was because I wanted to see if what I had heard was true. Anyway, you're going to have to explain that Jane Fonda comment to me. I'm not very familiar with her work.

"Apres Moi; le deluge."

[Eddie]

Stumblefist
> The second reason is that after i got my degree in psych i went on to take >postgraduate

Give me a break! Tell me you did not just lay the old “I have a degree in psychology” on me. I must have over estimated your intelligence. I thought you to be much more intellectually matured than that. Hiding behind your varsity degree must make you feel like the Ubbermesch. And what did you think? Must we feel intellectually inferior to you now? What are you going to do, psycho analyse me?? Give me a break!

> Look eddie sarcasm intolerance is a serious weakness in your peace strategy to >save the world and destroy america.

Sarcasm can be tolerated, but your sarcastic remarks were little to personal. As a post grad in psyc you must know that people take offence in certain circumstances. It has nothing to do with personality weaknesses. It has to do with opinions and cultural background. Isn’t Sociology a pre-requisite for psyc degrees in the states?

>Aren't you the anti-american who sees america as evil because they destroyed >(interfered with the internal afffairs of) the Nazis, the Jap Bushido Empire, The >USSR, the North Koreans and even as far back as the Boxers in 1900. Did i miss >something?

Golly jeepers!! Anti American? You make me sound like one of those hardcore
Nazi fascists. Obviously you missed the whole point again. I wont explain further. You obviously don’t have the mental capacity to comprehend the simple issues of politics.

>You have such a long list of armoured defences it is EXACTLY like dealing with a >neurotic patient. I know i am obligated to answer you in order to "help" you.

Goodness me, here we go. Cyber psycho therapy. Another first. Exactly who is retreating into his “armoured defenses” now?? Hiding behind your so called knowledge on human behavior. Gmf.

> you to aggressive (and seems physically aggressive) behaviour with threats and >suggestions of violence (your comment about wanting to fight over an internet >discussion).

Again, your assumptions are incorrect. Some kind of psychologist. I said, I’m not interested in going into a fight OVER an internet discussion forum. Fight, refereeing to argumentative discussion or confrontation over the issue. I don’t know exactly how you got to the conclusion that I’m “physically aggressive”. Some kind of psychologist. I suggest you demand a refund on your university fees.

> Eddie, i have just recently received word from the Klingon Empire the this involves >something which the human beings call "Humor".

Humor? Interlaced with Sarcasm? Mmmmmm. Again, as a post grad in psychology, you must have missed the chapter that dealt with the complications of sarcastic humor. Don’t you know that sarcastic humor is almost never humorous to both parties? Besides, your comments (the lambs issue) were nothing short of immature, childish trash. It wasn’t funny at all. Jerry Seinfelt is funny. Bill Cosby is funny. Heck, even Monty Python was funny. Stumblefist (the post grad in psyc) is not funny.

Now instead of spending your time with Adams and Pratchet books, why not go back and study your old varsity textbooks again. You seemed to have missed certain important issues.

In your defense, you remind me allot of my younger brother.

[tnwingtsun]

Why are you so concerned with sucking band??

[meltdawn]

...and why do you spell so poorly?

"Waiting is bad." - Musashi

[tnwingtsun]

Myself or Eddie??,
Its a know fact that my spelling sux :D :D

[Stumblefist]

I don't know about Meltdawn, but I got eddie covered here. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sf.html#Issues
Eddie! you are right! I looked it up in Eichmann's definitive book of Humor and Stumblefist is listed as: "Seriously NOT Funny."
Well, thank you for overestimating my intelligence, it's a nice compliment.
I'm sorry you did not fall for the old bogus "i've got a psych degree", how about maxwell smart's "three nuns in a rowboat with a bottle of scotch"? How about mentorship by the graduates of Belsen and Treblinka? I didn't really learn just from books...
Oh, you caught me psychologically analyzing you, you are the clever fellow, didn't have you fooled there either!
If what you post here is personal then why post it? I only respond to your public posts, i haven't even met your battered wife. (Did you order me to "back off" about that also , hmm,sorry i forget).
I admit sarcam is rather deadly if you are not wearing a cup and your internal affairs are rather messy.
So you are NOT anti-american!!! Lordy this world is so confusing! We have American voices of dissent in our current political strategies, but very few americans are protesting our role in the boxer rebellion. Maybe you can spearhead a new movement eddie with your "voice of..." whatever-it-is.

[This message was edited by stumblefist on 06-24-01 at 11:22 AM.]

[Eddie]

Stumblefist,
FINALLY!! I see that you finally caught up to the tone of my posts (unless, once again I’m over estimating your intelligence) :).

>Eddie! you are right! I looked it up in Eichmann's definitive book of Humor and >Stumblefist is listed as: "Seriously NOT Funny."

Geeslike. Seems like this will never end. The more I read your post, the more I realize that maybe I was WRONG. You are indeed Hilarious. Possibly caused by the hours you spend with your silly books (I must admit though, kind of esoteric reading, if you know what I mean).

>i haven't even met your battered wife.

Battered?? Ok, I’ll make you a deal. I will show her this reply, and you then try to explain your definition of Battered to her. You thought I was aggressive? You have obviously never met my wife :). Poor stumblefist. Do you at least have Life insurance? My wife’s English is not that good, so I do suggest consult a Dutch or German, dictionary before trying to take her on (oh yes, before I forget, did I ever tell you her grandfather is the illegitimate son of a Nazi Soldier and a Polish prisoner? Guess that makes me related to a Nazi/Jewish half-breed). Strange!

>Well, thank you for overestimating my intelligence, it's a nice compliment.

Mmmmmm, compliment? Ok, well, just that ONE. No More!

>I'm sorry you did not fall for the old bogus "i've got a psych degree"

Doesn’t one of the members of Wutang Clan (or is it Cyprus Hill) have a degree in Psych? No offence dude, but you and I both know that it is easier these days to get a degree in psych, than it is to get a white house intern to…, (well this is an open discussion, I will rather abstain from these kind of remarks). I think you get the point.

>I admit sarcam is rather deadly if you are not wearing a cup and your internal >affairs are rather messy.

Speak for your self, messy internal affairs? Oh wait!! I’m the Anti American, which Nostradamus predicted that will eventually take over the world. Sorry, No comment.

>Maybe you can spearhead a new movement eddie with your "voice of..." whatever->it-is.

You think??

Maybe I should!

It would be an honour!
Leading the World Super power into the new millennium.
Imagine That!!!!!

Tnwingtsun,
>Eddie
>Why are you so concerned with sucking band??

Huh?? Sucking band? Is that some kind of slang? Please explain. I’m slow sometimes. I'm also not that up to date with street talk.

Meltdawn,

>...and why do you spell so poorly?

Spell poorly? I copied and paste the text into a msword document, and looked for spelling errors. Besides a few words like Armoured, behaviour, and analyse, I couldn’t really find many other spelling errors. We follow the British way of writing, therefore some of the words are being spelled in a different manner than the American way. Eg. Color becomes colour, Armored becomes armoured, Analyze becomes analyse etc. English is not my first language either. Besides, WHO REALLY CARES!!

[Stumblefist]

Eddie said:
"You've English is not my first language either. Besides, WHO REALLY CARES!! "
-------------------------------------
You've stopped caring have you eddie? Do you feel like things are falling apart, everything is cracking?
So you don't beat your wife. She beats you ? And what's the payoff there? what do you get out of it? And you wish she would beat me up? Now you are using her to threaten me? A deflection of energy, and perhaps a desperation?
So here's the reason for this thing with Herrs Himmler and Eichmann et al. Yes, the Nazi's did a heavy job on them, into the second and third generations onwards. Then i guess your wife knows where Belsen and Treblinka are, Does she share your ostrich attitute or does she prefer the Israeli approach? Perhaps opposites attract?
I really don't get the point, I don't understand your proccupation with psych degrees, but psych is fairly easy: memorize the 36 stages of "baby learns to walk", read Walden 2, learn the Kuder COLOR personality test and you can pick up any chick anywhere. Do you fear the shrinks, eddie? Are they always meddling about with their dirty inferences? And my silly books? Which books are these? What is it you think i'm reading? I don't remember quoting any books? Shrink books? "I'm ok, you're ok" that kind of stuff? ...hours reading silly books!!!...so books can't solve it, it goes on and on and those silly books don't solve anything, so there's no point looking up any real facts like about WW2 and etc? All that book learnin' gets us nowhere?
The American Way of spelling bothers you so much you make sure to expurgate it? But why can't you understand internet jargon? Are you blocking that out too? Do you want it to end? But it just won't stop will it? The band plays on.

[Anarcho]

I know I'm coming into this late, but I just saw this: "Have you ever read the book called ANIMAL FARM? We might not like it, but oppression in this way, is way better than total anarchi."

This is absolutely hilarious, given that the guy who wrote Animal Farm and 1984, George Orwell, was extremely sympathetic to the anarchist cause and also wrote an account of his experiences with the Anarchists in the Spanish civil war in Homage to Catalonia.

Soup is good food.

[tnwingtsun]

"Tnwingtsun,
>Eddie
>Why are you so concerned with sucking band??"

"I did not want the post to turn into one of those aggressive, pointless, arguments that takes up more bandwidth than anything"


Why worry about bandwidth???


Strange.

[Stumblefist]

anarcho: I'll add to your comment.
Here are the realities from 3 writers each of whom has lived on an "animal farm":
Cuba: Against All Hope - Armando Valladaras
Russia: A day in the life of Ivan Denisovich - Alexander Solzhenitzen.
China: "Bitter Winds"
"Laogai, the Chinese Gulag" - Harry Wu
.................
So who wants to pack up and move to the farm? -No more worries about your future! Any takers? ...Eddie?
OOH, maybe i got it, are these the silly books you were talking about?...

[This message was edited by stumblefist on 06-26-01 at 03:08 AM.]

[Anarcho]

Solzhenitsin's good, although he did turn out to be a bit of a whinger (I heard that he returned enthusiastically to the "New Russia", decided it was still a sh*t-hole and left again)...

Haven't read the others, but I'll check 'em out, especially the Cuban one. Nothing like a nice bit of Trot-bashing. (No offence to any resident Trots). ;)

Soup is good food.

[Stumblefist]

Read the cuban after i visited cuba. They didn't stamp my passport. Met lots of Americans there and been there long long time!!! Sets the imagination agog doesn't it? James Bond move over. When i was there there were Russian ships in Havana Harbour. Two things are indelible in my memory.
1. On the tour of old Havana we looked up at the most prominent fortress on a hill across some water. Behind that very wall is a depression (from an old moat) with stakes set in the ground. Political prisoners were/are shot tied to the stakes with the wall to catch the bullets.
Ironic ... get it? having it shown off to clandestine American tourists as a World Historic Site.
2. I decided to really treat myself in a wild nightclub and order the more expensive drink called a "Havana".
... turned out to be rum and coke... well that's my drink anyway.....

[This message was edited by stumblefist on 06-26-01 at 10:51 AM.]

[Stumblefist]

I got this in my e-box and i take it it must be a reaction to this thread from the idea expressed. The comment isn't much but it makes a premise. I'll give my opinion later.
.................................
From: NORTHWINDOX@aol.com
Subject: Funny....
To: stumblefist@mailcity.com

Funny how you "martial artists" criticize people who have their their "heart"
in something....Hmmmm...perhaps "analysis paralysis?"
..............................................

[Stumblefist]

I responded with this post to northwindox from my e-box. When people try to "get me" alone in my e-box, my policy is to throw it back on the thread.
-------------------------------
Eddie!
Eddie's wife!
Eddie's sympathizer?
troll?
Too afraid to post in oublic? Bullies always want to get their intended
victim alone, so no one will enter into their "internal affairs"
Passion vs analysis . Totally wrong!
Passion requires analysis, those who avoid inspection avoid life.
I learned my technique from some survivors of Treblinka, Dresden and the Black Forest. You could call it confrontative analysis.
Techniques which assist not only survival but recovery and life affirmation. There is no sustained emotional contact without pain and sustained contact requires analysis. Confrontative analysis is active not passive, it leads to emotional contact. Those who choose the darkness flee from the contact.
whoever you are, you feel hurt, i am not to blame for that. If your heart fears analysis you must look into your personal past. There is nothing on that thread that could be responsible for hurting anyone because there is nothing that can invade anyone's life. I sugggest you restore your ego boundaries and assign the proper blame on the person who can change your hurt - which is you.
If you are eddie's wife, i'm sorry my mentor is dead. You could look to the Israelis if you seek completion for your experiences.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:46:44
NORTHWINDOX wrote:
>Funny how you "martial artists" criticize people who have their their "heart"
>in something....Hmmmm...perhaps "analysis paralysis?"
>

[Stumblefist]

Hello NORTHWINDOX,
I do confess you have me somewhat at a loss as to what you are on about. Perhaps you can be a little more specfic as to what is bugging you? Perhaps you are just trolling?
Anyway, as my stumblefist id is set up only in relevance to kungfuonline i have thrown all your messages back on the kungfuonline thread. I can tell from your reference to "analysis" that you are responding to the thread on the southern fist. Other than that i have no idea what you are on about unless my original guess was correct and now you are just blowing a smokescreen. Please post your future missives on the thread in public where they belong. I have now blocked you from my mailbox.

Have a nice day (if you can).
regards
Mr. Stumblefist

--

On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:23:28
NORTHWINDOX wrote:
>Bullies? I thought Bullies also had a lot of help from their friends, but
>when faced alone, they cower. Confrontational Analysis?
>Sounds like B.S. to me. Its a Good Day to die-and that comes from my Native
>American Brothers...After all, now you do have my email, don't you?
>