anybody know of harry wu sifu of hopga kung fu

[diego]

i have some drills from alexander"kaito"polintain that have elements of what harry"ng"ming taught him in sanfrancisco
in the early seventies

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

turning back the clock to the retro years of the 70's.

No I haven't heard of Henry but you can't miss someone who has an afro and platform shoes.

Maximus Materialize!

[diego]

who are you do you know anything or are you a IDIOT thanx8).....

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

But smart enough to know that you're looking to learn kungfu from a 70's disco freak with an Afro and platform shoes.

You like the track Kung Fu is Fighting? Swing those arms my boy!

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

Diego, ignore him..its rolls/ralek in some form or another................like I posted before, I dont know anythign about sifu henry wu, I onlyk now hop gars history and about my sifu, sifu Ku Chi Wai....

Zvika

"There is a fine line between coincidence and destiny"

[diego]

i could write the hopga aspects of my techniques,and you could point out any similaritys,and some history of the motions;maybe some classical descriptions like the tai chi formulas.

if you could tell me about your sifu and lineage,that would be great.

my e-mail is

todd4@angelfire.com
please leave your forum name and the word hop gar,so i know it isnt a virus.
hope to hear from you soon..... :mad:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

just put the infor on line so that everyone can comment about it. But let me start. Pak Hok is based on about 7 to 8 differnt punches. The first and the most basic is the Jin - long range punch but can be adapted to a short range punch. Quite useless actually. the rest are circular punches and the 8th is the Jow - or claw. also rather useless. The system is based on simultanous attack and defence. That is, you twist your boday and throw a punch at the same time to create a smaller surface area for your opponent to hit. Ok that would work under some situations where the opponent doesn't sidestep. Accordingly, the concept of simulatanous attack and defence is good but the way pak Hok goes about it is quite useless. There's also the soft crane which looks abit like tai chi - and seems to be an "add-on" to the system as it is completely different to the main 6 or so forms. There're self defence applications which are very impractical and so are the circular blocks -totally useless.

A useless style in my opinion but i shall not disclose my instructor's school as we actaully good friends. We just disagree about this aspect of kung fu that's all.

Have fun in your useless quest!

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

Ok Diego
My email is TieFighter15@juno.com
Do the same thing so I know that its nto someone harrasing me or something, ya know these things happen.

Zvika

"There is a fine line between coincidence and destiny"

[HopGar]

Ego, I have no clue why I'm responding but I'm gonna say that you dont know the first thing about Hop Gar. Period. If ya knew anything, you'd realize that what you thing is strange foot work actually is quite useful because we are moving our feet so that our opponent cant catch us and take us down.

Zvika

"There is a fine line between coincidence and destiny"

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kong

But of course you move your feet! Nethertheless, the Jin punch leaves you pretty much exposed with the other arm swung way back behind you.

The circular blocks are totally ineffective. The radius of the circle could be shortened.

The short punch with the elbows up exposes the ribs for no reason that to have them hit by someone's knees.

I haope I've now given you a reason to respond.

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

No use trying to convince a fu@king troll about anything. Ego, get a Hop Gar Sifu who knows what he's doing, study for say 1 year, you might understand thinga bit better. I'm not responding to what might look like inellegence b/c it isn't.

Zvika

"There is a fine line between coincidence and destiny"

[HopGar]

Oh yeah one more thing....watch someone who knows what he's doin fight with Hop Gar and THEN AND ONLY THEN COME BACK AND RANT YOUR STUPIDITY.......................

Zvika

"There is a fine line between coincidence and destiny"

[fiercest tiger]

this is funny, what style do you practise ego?

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kong,

Been there done that. I may be stupid but you can still learn alot from me.

First lesson for you is humility.

Maximus Materialize!

[diego]

Posts: 85
Foot work
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kong
But of course you move your feet! Nethertheless, the Jin punch leaves you pretty much exposed with the other arm swung way back behind you"""""kinda redundant when youve already mashed his temple/stolen tha center then walk in like a gorrila and knock him out"""".

The circular blocks are totally ineffective. The radius of the circle could be shortened"""how do you block heavy attacks in a melee at long range for a two minute fight"""".

The short punch with the elbows up exposes the ribs for no reason that to have them hit by someone's knees.""""have you learnt full application in the timeframe of history with the different footwork changes/ever thought of guard ribs with rear palm works for me""""..
so from your perspective that you seem to be limited to whats your basis and whathafukyou sayn

[Steeeve]

Yep Hello to Diego & Kong
Ego your a curious guy:))) Probably a nice guy but right now a ******* and i'm very humble sorry for my english...now what's your background ????

Hop gar is based on 4 principles...I'm sure everyone know that..destroy,evade,penetrate & intercept...hop gar fighter hate close the range or the in fighting...& if he's closed he employ grappling (throwing )no time too employ hiting at closed range....maybe some trapping can work but in the reality at closed range trapping the hands is good but you have to check head butt ecttttt
so the idea his to strike the opponent with long range swinging punch very powerful this punch....but you have to add a very good footwork that's what hop gar have.....simple if the hands go in straight lines the footwork is circular ...if hands go in circular footwork straight...

about the hands going back in the jin choi...this hands can be a grabbing & unbalanced of the opponent pulling the opponent in the punch...also the punch is employ at long range not a closed range so with the turning action of the body you have the reach to strike the opponent but the opponent can't reach you very powerfully with his fist....so after the impact the opponent go back & my next hit will be a powerful swing strikes of my fist behind me....this punching technique are knouckout punch employing the hips & all the bodyweight.for sure at closed range is not very effective but hop gar is not a closed range arts....but hop gar have a closed range tactic...a lot of shuai jiao( mongolian wrestling)

Just my two cent
By the way I'm not a Hop Gar student...but like this style

[diego]

STEEEVE WHAT YOUR BASICALLY SAYING FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A BAR FIGHT:
you prolly wouldnt want to straight lets say basic??wc it...use arm sweeps and nek pokes and groin toe flicks turn stop dudes bottle slam a palm to cheek knee solar trip turn overhead his buddy about to push you off him........is that what you meant by having to use shuao chio and trapping not very time consuming art when you have who knows how many oppsz in the pub--unless your supreme blindfold'd wooden dummy master.....


peace to all styles yall see that guy he was ninja
you see that guy hes a goof"self quote use it when analyzing ma"".....

[Steeeve]

Diego...That want I mean...Your english is better of mine:))))

All Style are good...the important is training but fit this to yourself depending of your physical.....sure pressure point & all secret stuff...but in a real fight you need power striking & dirtie trick if your opponent have 50 pound or more of you or have 1 feet more of you ...you have too be a good time & you have to hit him hard...I know that I'm small guy & skinny...I try to choke a friend just for fun with 70 pound more of me with the more realistic situation & He stand up & hit the wall with me on his back trying to choke him:)))) I hit the wall....but I don't hit him ....anyway reality......all punch need body weight behind him...some punch like pheonix eyes is good & very painful if you hit too good spot but in real fight is difficult.....anyway that's street fighting & martrial arts is not just for that...But that's bad cause a lot of people have false confidence ...He train in MA but when the reality came is dead...train realistic & adapt your stuff to your own physical & mental way...

philosophical of hop gar....excerpt from the book of hop gar "When facing a tiger you cannot say "look here,tiger,let's talk this over."the tiger will not talk.Whether fighting a rabbit or an elephant he will always exert maximum force to kill" the chon or destroy principle

Have a good day

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Hi Steeeve,

I have a back ground in Pak Hok Pai which is very similar to Hop Gar. And yes we were taught Maongolain wrestling as well. What i would say is that those swinging arm movements are very hard to hit someone at long range because they're so predictable. In general, large movements should be used at short range - check out Ba Gua or Pi Qua (Northern systems) if you haven't already done so.

And in your second post, I agree with you that alot of martial arts techniques are impractical to street fighting. I have illustrarted the ineffectiveness of the pheonix eye fist in another posr because it is aiming for such a small target.

My opinon is that if an art is not designed for street fighting it is a waste of time. This means most Southern sytles including hop gar are useless.

You've mentioned that you're a small person, I don't think Hop Gar is suitable for you. Try a northern sytem you'll probably find them a lot more adaptable and practical to street fighting.

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

Attention:EVERYONE IGNORE ANYTHING EGO SAYS.

Ego, all I gotta say to you is that my sifu is about 5 feet even -gonna tell me that a long arm style doesnt work with short people?!?!?!?!? Steeve, you coulda passed for a Hop Gar Student - you sounded like one of our instructors...very nicely put.

Ok Diego, now that I actually have a chance to read these posts from the last few days....here goes (BTW - Check your email in two days or so):

Kong
But of course you move your feet! Nethertheless, the Jin punch leaves you pretty much exposed with the other arm swung way back behind you"""""kinda redundant when youve already mashed his temple/stolen tha center then walk in like a gorrila and knock him out"""".

Yeah - thats about right.

The circular blocks are totally ineffective. The radius of the circle could be shortened"""how do you block heavy attacks in a melee at long range for a two minute fight"""".

Ego, well of course you'd shorten it unless you were fightin multiple opponents in which case your blocks would turn into a round of churn wai kurn (however you spell that) would knock them all off their feet!!!!!!! Understand this: we use alot of our blocking to lead into a much more powerful attack that quickly follows it.

The short punch with the elbows up exposes the ribs for no reason that to have them hit by someone's knees.""""have you learnt full application in the timeframe of history with the different footwork changes/ever thought of guard ribs with rear palm works for me""""..
so from your perspective that you seem to be limited to whats your basis and whathafukyou sayn

Ok, so I admit that I havea bout 8-9 months experience at most - From what I have seen, if you are refering to a chin choy -y you might havea point- but then again we side step our opponent most of the time. Chai Sen - wrong. If ya knew what the hell was goin on while you were studying Hop Gar, might have realized that there is a block right before you throw the punch. Be the way, the way you train isn't necessariy the way you fight. for eaxample, i have friend who studies hung gar...you think he fights in horse stance? of course not! he fights in a kick boxers stance..........I think I've spoken my piece and you all can relax because this rant is over......

Zvika

"There is a fine line between coincidence and destiny"

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kong,

1) So let me get this straight. Your friend trains Hung Gar and fights like a kick boxer. Why doesn't he just learn kick boxing? Why doesn't he use the horse riding stance when he fights or doesn't he know how to use it? Do you fight like a kick boxer with kick boxing gloves, kick boxing rules and in a kick boxing ring?

2)Why is it you would shorten the radius for one opponent when you claim to be able to throw multiple opponenet with a large radius? Can't you do the same with one opponenet? If so, I ask you again, why shorten the radius?

3)So the second arm is redundant because you have "smashed the temple with your jin". Put it this way, Jin's can be spotted a mile away. You'll be lucky to hit the head let alone the temple, let alone smashing it.

3) Ah won't it be more efficient to tuck in your elbows instead of having to guard your ribs with the other hand. 2 sides of your body have ribs you know. I reckon something's going to get hit!

4) Yes you're probably right, I don't know very much but you probably can still learn alot from me anyway.

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

Fu@king moron! How stupid can you be?!?!?!!?!??!

1) So let me get this straight. Your friend trains Hung Gar and fights like a kick boxer. Why doesn't he just learn kick boxing? Why doesn't he use the horse riding stance when he fights or doesn't he know how to use it? Do you fight like a kick boxer with kick boxing gloves, kick boxing rules and in a kick boxing ring?

For practical purposes his school does this - dont ask me why, and nevertheless, its still TCMA.

2)Why is it you would shorten the radius for one opponent when you claim to be able to throw multiple opponenet with a large radius? Can't you do the same with one opponenet? If so, I ask you again, why shorten the radius?

Why? I'll ya why **** it! So you can move in and then do something else!!!

3)So the second arm is redundant because you have "smashed the temple with your jin". Put it this way, Jin's can be spotted a mile away. You'll be lucky to hit the head let alone the temple, let alone smashing it.

WTF ARE YOU SAYING DUMB@SS!!!!!!!!!?!!??!?!? Now you've just proved that you don't know jack about Hop Gar. If you knew anything about our footwork, you woulda realized that that the sidestepping hides that back arm so you opponent can't see it and thus you can throw a "jin punch" (btw, dont ever use this term again - its ****in me off - call it a chin-choi or a straight punch, got that **** it?!)

3) Ah won't it be more efficient to tuck in your elbows instead of having to guard your ribs with the other hand. 2 sides of your body have ribs you know. I reckon something's going to get hit!

No sherlock! Of course both sides of your body have ribs! Again - FOOTWORK IS THE KEY HERE!!! I'M NOT GETTING INTO IT.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[diego]

IM SIC RIGHT NOW SO ILL TYPE
YOU WOULD NOT WALK DOWN THE STREET IN A HORSE STANCE OR A LEAN BACK SMALL FRONT OR 50/50 TRIANGLE STANCE OR ETC
MOST HUMANS STAND UPRIGHT FEET GENERALL IN CLOSE
TOES SLIGHTLY OUT OR TO THE FRONT
SO TWO HUMANS SAY HELLO B STRIKES A
THEY WERE BOTH IN NATURAL HUMAN WALKING UPRIGHT TYPE OF A PATERN FOR U OTHERDIMENSIONALZZZ
A SIDE BOW OR A ONE LEG OR A ETC IS A TRICK UNTO ITSELF,to make an opponent attack openings in the human frame from certian levels that dictate that frame........that is why
humans donot formulate bodily positions for further momentum type dispositionzzz
initially because the human was not made aware of attack

toy u use style arguments based on a crane and a mantis mixed with your little cult faith otherdimensional view of this atmosphere

udonot look at styles based on the history and the individuals PLUS THE SOCIOLOGICAL THOUGHTS in relation to all styles around the realllzzz
DIMENSION IN WICH THEY WERE MADE

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MATHEMATICALLY ARGUE A REALTIME EVENT WITHOUT BASING ON NIEGHBOURING CIRCUMSTANCES


OKAY SO THAT EXPLIANED YOU HAVE ABSOLUTLY NO EXPIERIANCE AND YOUR !1 WAS LAME ....EXCLAMATION 3 IS LAME TWO read above

2)Why is it you would shorten the radius for one opponent when you claim to be able to throw multiple opponenet with a large radius? Can't you do the same with one opponenet? If so, I ask you again, why shorten the radius?""""IM NOT SURE WHAT THAT WAS DIRECTED AT CUZ U DINT HAVE GOOD POINTS YOU JUST LIKE TO TALK,BUT ONE THING I HEARD NEVER BIN IN A MELEE WHILE HAVING AN IDEA TO PUNCH-----THE SAFEST BET IS TO KEEP MOVING AND THROWING STRIKES TO SHOCK &OR STUN UNTIL YOU CAN FLEE......I GUESS IT WOULD BE NICER TO A SINGLE OPPONENT TO KICK HIM IN THE NUTS AND RUN

BUT AGIAN ITS CIRCUMSTANTIAL

3)So the second arm is redundant because you have "smashed the temple with your jin". Put it this way, Jin's can be spotted""how when you sidestepd his exertion and hes finishing exhale by the time your ready to counter"""""""meaning he punched"""""""" a mile away. You'll be lucky to hit the head let alone the temple, let alone smashing it.

[HopGar]

Nicely put Diego

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Diego,

I'm sorry, I don't think I follow your argument. But from what I gather, yes you're right we don't walk around in kung fu stance. But then again, we also don't walk around in kick boxing stance either. I just don't see your point.

Kong,

You want to hide a hand. Come on man, how many arms do you have. It pretty obvious with an over extended arm from your first Jin, your opponent would know that it's your opposite arm and leg that's coming.

Again you're assuming that opponnet would complete their punch in the air as you side step for your Jin. that's a very unrealistic assumption you're making. Or are you saying that you side setp after your opponenet has punched? equally unrealistic.

About your footwork, all things being equal, you're better off having your elbows tucked to protect your ribs.

From your last post, it looks like you got a foot stuck in your mouth. And correction, you probably can't learn anything from me, or anything for that matter. Keept practicing your Jins. Your Jins will make you strong

Maximus Materialize!

[diego]

but i really dont see any points to you continuosly posting


as far as i know isnt a kickboxing stance just a basic upright horse or a side position if you froze certian spaces of time
during a confrontational atmosphere

what is it with you and the side on guard stance
hip hurt or somthing.....its almost as if your implying continuosly be close kneed and elbowed
i guess you would really hate to do like a fall onto your side and extend your leg quickly snapping the bottom heel to a spot that could disrupt an attack

as far as i know there is like 4 onguards for hopga that straight punch arm back i can think of grabl n punchr sidestep stop hit like bruce lee and what i read is the most advanced application of motions real continuos offense and defense one punch same block

ego read all posts and it will make sence
delete any personel attacks on you and it will make sense

oh wait how could clarity form in a crakt mirror
look at that its smoky only cuz u suk
exhale youll be aiight :p

[HopGar]

Your a moron...I'm not..this conversation is officially over.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[HopGar]

One more thing......ego, you have succeeded in annoying me and refusing to listen to the point that I'm not going to bother with your posts.............obviously you have psychological porblems of some kind if all you can do is point out how a style doesnt work.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kong,

You claim that you're not a fool, but you've been a great pretender up to this point. Here's an example why. You said that your friend learned Hung Gar when he was actually doing kick boxing. So I followed up with a few basic questions. And here's your response " ....dont ask me why, and nevertheless, its still TCMA."

This is just so funny, that you brought up a scenario that you didn't know the fully story behind it. The best of all is that you accept that it is TCMA when it is clearly kick boxing. What exactly are you learning at your Hop Gar school? From the way you describe, it is totally impractical for fighting purposes.

Diago

You mentioned that there are 4 on guard positions for Hop Gar. Why dod you need an "on-gar" position anyway. Why 4, is it for different levels of readyness?

If you don't know you could probably refer the question to Kong who would probably be hunched over and drooling from the side of his mouth when he is not on-gar to do hop gar!

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

Let me put it this way......for my friend, yeah I should have shut up and not said anything. But as for myself..do you have any chue how hard it is to explain how tecyhniwues work over the net?! I don't appreciate your insults and you my friend should just go back to your wheelchair and keep dreaming of doing kung fu whihc is something you'll never be able to do.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kong,

Life is not meant to be easy.That's something you'll learn to appreciate if you ever end up in a wheelchair.

But i wan't refering to your kungfu technique, but rather commenting on the fact that you brough up an example that you didn't know much about as a means ofjustifying what you're saying. I thought that was a rather foolish thing to do. In restrospect, don't you agree that I'm correct?

In terms of Hop Gar techniques, i think we have established that it is a matter of swinging one's arms. Have you ever tried doing something like Ba Gua or Pi Qua, so that at least you'll be able to hit something?

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

Sorry Ego, but the fact that I couldn't come up with a way that a chin-choi works DOES NOT in ANY WAY POSSIBLE mean that all Hop Gar is is swinging arms. I'm sorry you didn't learn the pracicalities of what you think is "swinging arms." Just because you managed to get into a massive accident while you were taking Choy Lay Fut doesnt automatically make southern styles/ tibetan styles evil or something. Hope you have realized your utter stupidity......

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kong,

Did someone hit you with a Hop Gar punch? I know that is very unlikely but what you said makes even less sense compared with the previous dribble you've posted. I've never said that Hop Gar or Southern Styles were evil. They had nothing to do with my accident. How did you come up with the causual link between the events? The same as throwing a Jin and hitting someone I suppoese.......

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

Ok so screw everything I've said up untill now and just forget about it. Start over and clarify what the hell you are talking about so I can at least try to answer you semi-decently. One more thing, I believe I did ask you to not refer to that punch as a jin punch........dont ignore me. At least do me this much if nothin else.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kong,

Whatever, call it Chin Chow Choy for all I care. Either way, it ain't going to hit nothin! it is just so d@mn predictable that Hop Gar stuff. I can tell you this because I've gotta background in Pak Hok and I know the footwork you're talking about. However, I've had the opportunity to lean Ba Gua and Pi Qua - from that point on I never once looked back at Pak Hok.

I encourage you to do the same. Give these Northern systems a go and you see the fallacy in the theories of Hop Gar.

I did think like you at once stage that Pak Hok was the best thing since slice bread.

Maximus Materialize!

[diego]

hey wasnt the royal gaurds who studied pakua/taichi/hsing yi also practitioners of the tibetan arts

isnt hopgar somewhat of a north/suoth chuanfa
it started on rugged mountians then moved to the city i think...could be wrong

but i swear there is elements of pakua in hopga just with the finger strikes....could just be similarity???

[HopGar]

Hate to say it ego, but last time I checked, at some point in Chinese History - Hop Gar was an undefeated style, as well at the martial that the guards at the palace in Beijing used.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[lkfmdc]

I'll throw my two cents into this conversation at this point I suppose. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are clearly more valid than others. So, Ego, or Mr. Ego, or whatever you'd like to be called, can I ask you a few questions?

1. Who did you study Pak Hok with?

2. How long did you study it?

3. Did you learn Chat Sing Bouh or Jih Wu Bouh?

4. What level did you achieve in Pak Hok?

5. If you know so much about Pak Hok, can you please explain the following and arrange it in the proper order?

Neih Lahk Sau
Fei Hok Sau
Dou Lo Sau
Lau Sing Kuen

Your answers will give us a better appreciation of your credentials and the depth of your understanding on the subjects you are discussing

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Diago,

Yup you sure opened up a can of worms here. It's so difficult to trace the true origins of a style. Possibly, it came from the ruggered mountains and quite possibly taught to the palace guards.

My suspicion is that the applications / way it was being taught in those days were similar to Ba Qua etc.. which is well known for it's fighting ability. Why I suspect that is because if you look at the renouned fighting styles they share very similar theories. One of them is the use of large movements for close range to throw combined with comprehensive stance work for leg trapping.

Now I look back at Pak Hok Pai and I feel that the style would work so much better if applied along these concepts.

I also suspect that over the course of time the applications might have been lost / misinterpreted in some way. I'm not slagging pak hok in any way, but this is apparent across many stlyes - Northern onces or Karate.

Just to side track a little, Karate was never meant to be that "hard" and Tae Kwon Do never emphasised this much on high kicks. But then the rules of sports changed things. Even in Western martial arts, boxing is very different under the Queens Rules.

This is why I was suggesting to Kong to have a look at those Northern Styles which may provide a different level of understanding to Pak Hok.

Does this makes sense

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

Just a quick question ego: Since when does Pak Hok = Hop Gar? They might be similar but they are very different....................thus, don't talk about Hop Gar b/c it isn't Pak Hok.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[diego]

i liked how you toned it down

but when dude was like name the order of the sao's

uno buddy GOTYOU :mad: ;) :confused:

[HopGar]

Diego

I lost everything you sent me through email and now I have to print it out and go through it again........it'll be sometime before I send another email.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[diego]

todd4@angelfire.com

is your emial the same

[HopGar]

yup, still Tiefighter15@juno.com

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

IKFMDC

In response to your following questions

1. Who did you study Pak Hok with?
I do not make any associations expressed or implied with any martial arts school on this forum. It is not my policy to diclose the instructors or schools I have trained in.

2. How long did you study it?
A number of years arond 3 (I think)

3. Did you learn Chat Sing Bouh or Jih Wu Bouh?
Both.

4. What level did you achieve in Pak Hok?
I've done up to the soft crane form as well as the short stick and long staff. I don't know the chinese translation - it's been a number of years. Suffice to say that when i realized that Pak Hok techniques weren't as practical as the Northern Styles (after much research and training) I kind of stopped thinking much about Pak Hok.

5. If you know so much about Pak Hok, can you please explain the following and arrange it in the proper order?

These are forms in pak hok. and arranged in alphabatical order.
Dou Lo Sau
Fei Hok Sau
Lau Sing Kuen
Neih Lahk Sau

KONG

"Hate to say it ego, but last time I checked, at some point in Chinese History - Hop Gar was an undefeated style, as well at the martial that the guards at the palace in Beijing used."

OK lets look at what you've said from a logical perspective. A superior style would put the odds in your favour in combat so that you should have a higher probability of winning against your opponent of an inferior style. Agreed?

If that's there case, there is no certainty of victory. Agreed?

Now, a superior style can only be developed through actual combat, which would weed out the poor techniques and enhance the practical techniques. agreed?

If that's the case, then the style MUST have gone through many many rounds of combat over time. The law of large numbers would dictate that at some point in time, practitoners of that style would have been defeated. (even if it is just by chance)

Therefore, coming back to your statement that "Hop Gar is an undefeated style" means that it must not have seen ANY combat or limited combat where just by chance it wasn't defeated.

Or put it another way, if it was a strong style it would have been used extensively in combat, say you have 1000 palace guards going out to war, you would expect some casualties (ie defeats) Agreed?

Given that Hop Gar has not been defeated, you must ask the question why it wasn't used for combat which raises the question as to the practicality of the style!

This would further suggest that the palace guards used Hop Gar not for fighting but for exercise such as losing up the joints and preventing muscle strains from the arm swing ing exercise. It is those dumb ole Southerners who thought that it was a fighting art.

The palace guards reserved good styles like Pi Qua, Baji, Northern Mantis, Ba Gua, Hsing I, Tai Chi and Tong Bei for fighting!

"Just a quick question ego: Since when does Pak Hok = Hop Gar? They might be similar but they are very different....................thus, don't talk about Hop Gar b/c it isn't Pak Hok."

Pak Hok doesn't work. It is possible to infer from YOUR statemenet that Hop Gar doesn't work. You say Pak Hok is similar to Hop Gar how can you contradict yourself by saying they are very different.

I think logic supports what I say Kong you f@cken Goose!

Maximus Materialize!

[diego]

your basic premise of deduction is totoally & incompletly wich almost mirrors utter idiocy
built almost ripped thruogh the mud thruogh consistent and complete lowstress drugework of toil basing unknown circumstances and topics of analyzation in public cutitcles of enjoyment the processes anyway so its like your teacher prolly thought you as a punk so your awareness during method = didnt come close to finishing anyrace or latenight spanky
great tension was formed after views of a reccenter taichi auxillary stretch forct conclusions of inadequcy from the past relation...

abc does not imply alphabet we are interested in the proper course of instruction well documented in general acceptance of the proper discourse of the pakhok course -slash program to mathematically build a referance or a framework of preferance to apply the preferential groundworks for the foundation wich could be viewed by an outside party.
now with logik 3 would deduce
however we are in the manipulation during similes of tense lips exasperated in exhale exactly put5th to qi
this is not mathematics this is individuals and history hamster peni$

[HopGar]

I NEVER said that it was undefeated - I said at one period of time in history, you moron. goto www.hopgar.com (http://www.hopgar.com) - read our history and then come back and ask your questions. I dunno where the hell you came from but you once again have showed your utter sptupidity.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Diego,

Your post doesn't make sense. Try to write in short sentences which would help express your line of argument more clearly. Also, personal inuslts an argument does not make!

Kong

Of course being undefeated is in reference to a time horizon. From what you mposted earlier on, Hop Gar was probably undefeated during the period when the palance guards used it as sort of a warming up exercise.

Defeats occurred when the dumb-ass Southern peasants used it for fighting!

From what you said in another post, Hop Gar people do not spar. This would harldy lead to a development of a practical fighting art.

Who's the theoritician now? come on out with it! Swing those arms and beat the air with FULL FORCE. Swing it boy!!!

Maximus Materialize!

[HopGar]

YAWN!

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch