for the mak fai and lee koon hung family

[yik-wah-tik]

hey guys, i have included a photo that has lee koon hung mak fai and shek kin as well as my sifu who is on the far left first row. he is the second one, the one wearing a tank top with tattoos.

i asked my sifu to pull this out of his collection for you.

[yik-wah-tik]

sorry guys, i am having trouble trying to attach this photo. can someone help me? what do i do

[Fu-Pow]

T

[Fu-Pow]

I tried posting a picture but I couldn't get it to work either.

[diego]

I think the admin banned pictures!, you are going to have to create a link such as a geocities.com format, it should take at most 2hours for you to set up!, unless its from a website then just post the url, if you want to just post a picture and not link the whole page!, right click on the pic select properties, around the middle of the page you will see a url, copy&paste that as the link, and we will get a blankpage with just the selected picture!.
This should help cuz thats about all one can do:cool:

[Lice]

If you want to email it to zach@imws.com, I can put it on my web server and link to it from here...

[Fu-Pow]

Frank-

Can you just tell us what the picture is of and why you wanted to post it. No doubt it has something to do with lineage.....yaaaawnnnn!!!:o

[yik-wah-tik]

in the 1970 in san francisco there was a hong kong demo team that performed here is sf and my sifu and si-sook gung perform alongside masters lee koon hung, master mak fai, shek kin, chan pui, y.c. wong and a few others.

it takes to much time to copy and send out, but if you both email me i will email you the photo.

i just wanted to see if you guy wanted a copy of this picture.
thats all.

for fu-pow (maks student) it had all in one photo of his sifu, his sigung, and shek kin who also taught lee koon hung, right?

i just wasn't sure if you had this picure.

frank

[yik-wah-tik]

is your hop gar lineage linked to the hop ga sifu who was shot in san francisco"?

if so, didn't mean to bring up a sore subject.

frank

and thanks for your help

[diego]

I learnt some from someone who in montreal learnt from a Alexander"kaido"Polintain who learnt from the killed HopGar Master Harry Wu/ Ng-Yim-Ming in 1972 san francisco.

I only have abit of skill from his sf class, i would be a ass to cliam Lineage!. However His Lifework is a major source of my treasure hunt to unearth whatever:) about HopGar and Tibetan Lion's Roar hopgas poppa. Do you have any info you would share, or could you ask around, i will post a link after this post.

[diego]

Maybe you heard of kaido in sf in the late 60s early 70s, he set up shop in montreal canada in 72, retired around 1980 and was shot around 86?


For a account of ngmings death read the kfo forum user NORTHERNSHAOLINS POST'S in this link -
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=148356#post148356

THE70S
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roy is one of the four main seniors, he's second from right, in the first pic.

kaito on the left is recieving his 5th degree blackbelt instructor certificate from kajukukenbo founder adriano emperado.

a picture of kaito at a tournament i think he judged or held? in 76?; he's first on the left.


the last pic is hopgar gm harry wu/ng-yim-ming, whose style kaito taught blended with emperados kajukenbo with suppossedly some mantis from a W.C.Wong and internal style from? but im not sure on that yet..http://www.whitecranegungfu.com


http://geocities.com/lingmingwushu/pahhokpai.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/4098/articles.html


http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/9358/tibetan.html

http://www.shaolin.com/wh_crane_martialarts.html


http://www.kungfuonline.com/info/web/lamapai.html


hopgar.com

greencloud.com

tibetangungfu.com

From David chin&Micheal Staples Book: HopGar Kung-Fu. i think now out of print, i didnt post the text so you chumps can't bootleg!!.Basic Hands and all of David Chin's Stance's
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12 LONGFISTS
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[diego]

12Shorthands
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Kick's&Block's


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Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-11-2002 10:30 AM



diego
HopGar GM HarryWu

Registered: Dec 1969
Location: VAN.B.C.
Posts: 1228
cont.
TIBETAN GUNG FU-TRIED AND TRUE

(This site is dedicated to the people of Tibet)


"No... martial arts snobbery exists for any classical ... form. This consideration is true of all genuine combative measures. Mondern-day emphasis on the empty-hand aspects or sporting outlets for Chinese, Korean, or Japanese fighting forms has particularly clouded the issue. Japanese Karate-do or other quasicombatives influenced by that form display the fact that they are not classical combative measures, by their refusal to permit the operator the use of weapons. Japanese Karate-do, a twentieth-century development, completely untested in actual combat, is especially guilty of this combative unreality.

Donn Draeger The Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia pg. 34. (footnote)

In the world of martial arts, there are three divisions of training. There are martial arts devoted to the development of healing. The various types of Chi Gung, Ching Gung, and Tai Chi. The second type of training is that of the aesthetic arts such as the Bejing Opera arts, Tai dancing, etc. The third and most difficult type of training is in the functional, combative martial arts. This type of training is invariably dangerous, grueling, yet extremely rewarding for the individual willing to submit to it.

While there are many legendary stories of martal artists engaging each other in singular duels, there are very few martial arts in the world that have actually been tested in warfare. Tibetan martial arts is one of them.

In 1904 a British army officer named Sir Francis Younghusband headed a British invasion of Tibet. The politics leading up to the invasion involved Russia, India, Bhutan, Sikkim, and Nepal. India, Bhutan, Sikkim, and Nepal were already under British colonial control and Nepal provided Britian with their famed Ghurkha Regiments. These regiments accompanied Younghusband on his mission to invade Tibet.

The catalyst for the invasion revolved around Tsarist Russia's increasing political interest in Tibet. Realizing that Tibet could very well evolve into the political hub of Eurasia, the British were quite alarmed when the Russian mystic, Aharamba Agyan Dorjeff became the first "Tsamit Hamba" to the Thirteenth Dali Lama of Tibet. The Dali Lama gave Dorjeff the title of Tse-Nyi-Ken-Po, Abbot of Metaphysics. A chronology of what transpired is as follows:

[diego]

1904- British Invasion of Tibet The Dali Lama flees to the Mongolian allie.
1909- Dali Lama returns to Tibet via Peking.
1910-Chinese invade Tibet. Storm Lhasa. Dali Lama flees to India.
1911- Chinese ran out of Tibet.
1912- Dali Lama returns to Lhasa.
Several important battles occurred during the British invasion that proved the effectivness of Tibetan martial arts. The Tibetan warriors, however, never having seen a Gatling Gun, eventually succumbed to its destructive power. Much to the shame of the British, when the Tibetan warriors turned their backs, lowered their heads, and walked away in defeat, the British kept firing, mowing down hundreds of Tibetans with their rain of death.
When it came to close quarter combat, however, the British learned very quickly how formidable the Tibetan warriors could be. On May 5, 1904 at Chang Lo village south of Gyantse Fortress, Tibetan warriors killed or wounded 56 British troops when the British conducted sortes against their buildings. Twenty percent of the British troops available were instantly diminished. At Palla Village 1100 yards away, there continued 6 more hours of desperate fighting, much of it hand to hand, in a bloody hide and seek that cost 350 Tibetan warriors their lives.

Then, on June 4, 1904 at Kongma, 300 Tibetan warriors stormed the stronghold in which Younghusband was staying. Fighting rifles with bare hands, they scaled walls, grabbing rifle muzzels and fighting at close quarters.

On July 5, 1904, Gyantse finally fell into the hands of the British. At the same time they assaulted Shigatse on the Tsang Po River. This gave the the British the triangulation they needed to wedge their invasion towards Lhasa, the capital of Tibet located south of Shigagtse on the Tsang Po river. At Shigatse, the Ghurkas had their day and engaged the Tibetan warriors in bloody close quarters combat that required literal inch by inch crawling into Tibetan lairs.

By July 16, the British had arrived at Kharo La, half way between Gyantse and Lhasa and on July 24, they crossed the Tsang Po on two barges and in skin boats, moving 3500 men, 3500 animals, and 350 tons of supplies in the process. By August 2, 1910, they waited just seven miles outside of Lhasa until the Chinese Amban (ambassador) arrived in Lhasa. By August 9, the British had entered the city prepared to negotiate a treaty.

When the British entered Lhasa, they were not prepared for what they encountered. There were no hordes to fight, no peasants mocking them in the streets, and no one to greet them. The Tibetans simply ignored them. The British stewed in their own boredom as the treaty stalled, progressed, then stalled again under the seeming complacence of the Tibetan government.

Among the salient features of the treaty were agreements not to send English missionaries to Tibet and most importantly, that Great Britian was to have Suzerain Power over Tibet. Suzerain is a term which means that one nation has paramount control over a locally autonomous state. All of the surrounding countries including China agreed to British Suzerain Power in Tibet (An agreement that was blatantly ignored by the Communist Chinese when they invaded Tibet in 1949).

The Tibetan Warrior
In order to understand the ferocity with which Tibetan warriors fought against overwhelming firepower, we have to explore the society which the Tibetan warrior came from and the environment which shaped their lives.
Classical Tibet (before the Chinese Communist invasion in 1949) was a theocracy for centuries. The institutional religion of Tibet was Mahayana Buddhism, a religion that was propagated in "the ten thousand monastaries" (Now there is just one left and it is used as a tourist trap).

The head of this monastic system was (and still is, in exile) the Dali Lama. The Dali Lama is considered the head of the state, head of the church, and the final court of approval in all the land. Under the Dali Lama are two councils which act as prime ministers- the Ecclesiastical Council and the Council of Ministers.

The Ecclesiastical Council consists of four monks who represent the Inmost One, the Dali Lama, in the administration of all the lamasaries and nuneries of Tibet. The Council of Ministers consists of four members also- three lay and one cleric, who act as go-betweens in the intergration of church and state. Under these two prime ministers is a national assembly of the fifty families of Tibet and representatives from each lamasary.

A typical monastery contains three colleges called Tratsang. Within each Tratsang are a varying number of sub-colleges called Khamtsen which control the religious services and are each run by an abbot. In each Khamtsen is at least one incarnate lama with his own establishment, called a Labrang. The Labrang contain a number of clubs, similiar to fraternities called kyidu. An average number of about thirty-six warrior monks known as Dub-Dub belonged to each kyidu.

The kyidu was a shared cooperative of novices, initiates, and seasoned Dub-Dub monks who would share all in common- feast and famine, happy times and sad times. The Dub-Dub were found only in the great monastaries of Drepung, Sera, And Ganden.

At the top of the heirarchy in the monastary were the Pe-Cha-Wa, the "bookmen". These were the learned monks who could afford a good education. At twelve to twenty thousand feet above sea level life is very difficult, to say the least, and a full belly and a warm fire are precious commodities. Many of the people who came to the monastaries were not necessarily religious. The term monk literally means a man at a monastary.

Many monks were servants- builders, laborers, or scavengers. If a monk entered the priesthood, he became a Chela, a novice which is an acolyte boy pupil. The average monk, called a Trappa, was the most numerous at the temple. These were monks who had taken vows but could not afford a bookman's education. The Lamas, or Gurus, were the teachers of the monastary.

The Lamas were in line to possibly become abbots of their own Labrang, especially if they were incarnate, or born once again into the monastic system from some past life. There was, however, no class distinction in the Lamasary. Everyone worked together and talked together, the idea being that "the only enemy is the man you do not know."

The Dub-Dub warriors were at the bottom of this heirarchial ladder as they usually came from the peasantry and could not afford an education. Their religious training was non-systematic and called Tolenpa which means "fill their bellies". This is a term which signifies those who would come to the Khamtsen temple services solely in order to receive a portion of Tsampa and butter-tea. Young boys who were novice monks and were the favorite attendants of the Lamas were called Chense, the "light of the eye". They would receive special favors and better food.

[diego]

--
There were always two levels of martial arts training in the Tibetan monastaries- training reserved for Lamas and training reserved for the Dub-Dubs. The higher the rank of the monk, the more severe and brutal the training of the monk, in order to instill morality and humility.

High level monks such as Lamas would study archery, horsemanship, the pole vault (for agility), stilt walking (for balance), and kite flying (for strategy). The lesser monks, the Dub-Dubs, would train out-of-doors, taking cold showers under glacial waterfalls. They would run naked in the sand, practice carrying and throwing heavy stones, and practice long jumping.

Novice Dub-Dubs did participate in the exercises but did not participate in the long jump from raised ramps until they became full monks. Dub-Dub novices would strip naked, laying out their clothes neatly, in the perscribed order, then run with sand in their boots, or throw stones as directed by the jump master who always carried a spade handle with which to mark jumping distances and to keep the monks in order with.

There were two martial arts that the Tibetan warriors studied. One was a grappling art called Sung-Thru Kyom-Pa Tu De-Po Le-La- Po. The technical name for this art was Amaree. The lower system that was known by most people, including the Dub-Dubs, consisted of a system of holds, locks, throws, breakfalls, and self-control.

The higher system of this martial art was reserved for the medical Lamas of the Chakpori Medical Monastary in Lhasa. This higher system was taught only to those Lamas who could pass the most stringent tests of character. The method taught self control and how to create unconsciousness for medical purposes such as the setting of broken bones, extraction of teeth, and other surgeries. Resucitation was also taught.

Some of the elite Dub-Dubs were police monks. Seven feet tall, with padded shoulders, faces blackened, and carrying long staves, they were certainly a formidable sight. The Dub-Dubs were distinguished for their physical strength and courage yet they were also very meticulous in their dress and bearing. The would wear russet robes of fine wool, voluminous and tied tightly at the waist so that the upper portion could form a purse in which they could carry all of their earthly possessions-tsampa bowl, cup, knife, amulets, rosary, bag of roasted barley, and a supply of tsampa.

The Dub-Dubs wore their skirts longer than was usual for a monk to do. They would kilt the skirt up higher than usual to expose their well trained thighs to all. This created a bulky look to which they would add a swagger. Though monks were suppose to remain shaved, the Dub-Dubs would sport a long, well-trained curl round the left ear and down the cheek. If a Dub-Dub was required to shave his curl to participate in a religious ceremony at the Potala Palace in Lhasa, he would then paint a curl on the left side of his head, flowing down his cheek.

The Dub-Dub always wore a red silk scarf above the elbow of the bear right arm. From his girdle, he would hang a huge iron key on a cord which could be used to flail or gouge an opponent with in a fight. The Dub-Dubs were not allowed to, but they all carried pocket knives which they were more than willing to pull out and use during an engagment with an opponent.

The Dub-Dubs were permitted to hire themselves out as bodyguards and convoy escorts, which allowed them to make some money. They also policed the religious ceremonies and fined anyone who hung bells from their animals or wore pretty ribbons during holy days. The Dub-Dubs were not corrupt, per se. If a person was in need, a Dub-Dub would go out of their way to assist that person. If a person had money, however, then the Dub-Dub felt that it was their duty to figure out how to receive a pittance of it.

At the religious services of the Khamsten, it was the Dub-Dubs job to tend the huge vats which make the butter tea, to carry the huge teapots on the slippery floors of the prayer halls, and to pour butter- tea for the monks. It was also their job to play the musical instruments of the procession, particularly the Gyaling, which is a Tibetan oboe. Novice Dub-Dubs would spend hours each day learning to play the Gyaling without inhaling! This also taught them to control their breath in a fight.

The second martial art of Tibet was called Senga Ngwa, the Lion's Roar (See the Six Strengths article). The higher form of this art consisted of Eight Ways of Entering or eight "antics" which were types of tantric meditation that were reserved only for higher Lamas of the monastary. The lesser form of this art consisted of four fist strikes-the straight punch, the uppercut, the overhand, and the fisthook. These fists were practiced millions of times by the Dub- Dubs to the point where they were totally reflexive responses.

In this way of training, the Tibetan Dub-Dub warriors were able to train in a martial system of both grappling and hitting that would protect the god-king, the Dali Lama, because there were no second chances. In 1910, when the thirteenth Dali Lama was fleeing to India as the Chinese invaded Lhasa, Dub-Dub warriors engaged and killed fifty-three Chinese soldiers while themselves only incurring two losses.

The context of Tibetan martial arts, which were forged on the Razor's Edge at the Rooftop of the World, is this: Hit hard. Do the most amount of damage with the least amount of energy. If you must fight, be absolutely cruel and ruthless. Because of this context, training today in the Tibetan White Crane martial art carries the same grueling consistency that the monks of Tibet endured, albeit for the danger. We fight with protective gear now and under strict supervision of the teacher, yet the lessons are still effectively learned. We learn a functional martial art deeply embedded with the flavor and values of the Dub-Dub warriors of Tibet. In respect of their memory, we owe them no less.


http://giant.genesis.uark.edu/~gumgong/khambawarrior.gif

References:
The Third Eye; by T. Lobsang Rampa; 1956, 1958; Brandt &Brandt.
Adventures of a Tibetan Fighting Monk; by Hugh Richardson; Tamarland Press, Bangkok, 1986; (out ofprint).
Bayonets to Lhasa; by Peter Fleming; Harper & Brothers, N.Y.; 1961.
Additonal Reading:
Tibet; by Norbu & Turnbull; Simon & Schuster, N.Y.; 1970.
Revolt in Tibet; by Frank Moraes; Mc Millian Company, N.Y.; 1960.
Born In Tibet; Chogyam Trungpa; Harcourt, Brace, & World; 1966.
Seven Years in Tibet; by Heinrich Harrer; E.P. Dutton & Co., N.Y.;1954.

[Fu-Pow]

Frank-

I'd like to have the picture. You can email me at fu_pow@hotmail.com. I'll show it to my Sifu, he'll get a kick out of it. I asked my Sifu about your Sifu. All he said was "Dino is my friend." That's quite a compliment coming from my Sifu. He is not one who freely gives out praise.

Yau Sam

[yik-wah-tik]

i'll email it to you. pls let me know what your sifu has said after seeing it.


i told you a long time ago that your sifu and my sifu knew each other and that my sifu spoke highly of only 2 clf masters. that was lee koon hung and mak kin fai. my sifu totally respects your sifu.


frank

[Fu-Pow]

I just checked my email. Did you send it yet?

Thanks

[yik-wah-tik]

forgive me, i am at a comp without a visible harddrive. no where to put in a disk i will go to kinkos in 30 mins. i will send it to you soon.

pls be patient.

frank

[Fu-Pow]

Fire dragons are very impatient......hehehe

[Serpent]

Wow. Frank and Fu-Pow are more or less getting along here!

:eek:

OK, what have you done with the real Frank McCarthy?

[Fu-Pow]

You got me all excited Frank....

Now where be the picture??????

:p

[Fu-Pow]

Ahhh...my ol' buddy wujidude. Never seen you on the Southern Forums before.

Keep it internal man.

Yau Sam

[Fu-Pow]

Yes it's very stinky over here....and its all bull****....all of it...because no one has a purer lineage than me. Afterall I am Damo...or rather Damo reincarnated. Staring at that wall for 9 years really sucked, I hope you guys appreciate it!!!

[anton]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Yes it's very stinky over here....and its all bull****....all of it...because no one has a purer lineage than me. Afterall I am Damo...or rather Damo reincarnated. Staring at that wall for 9 years really sucked, I hope you guys appreciate it!!!

So tell me Damo, what does Dashifu look like from the inside? :D

[Fu-Pow]

Frank-

Where is my picture??????????????

tic..toc...tic...toc...tic....(insert theme to gameshow jeopardy)