Tai chi practitioner wins mixed martial arts tournament

[NorthernMantis]

Name Style Weight Height
Jeremiah Cram Tai Chi 191 6'

(When there is more than one weight listed, the first weight is for the first fight...)

Jeremiah fought Jason Sagal and Won (Split Decision) at Roadhouse Rumble V on 23-Feb-02.


To all the non beleivers I say ha! Especially you Ralek! Out of all the kung fu styles it was the one that probably gets made fun of the most that won.

It can be viewed in the following links

http://www.mixedmartialarts.ca

http://www.mixedmartialarts.ca/HTML/Rumble5/09JeremiahJason.htm

I know it was already posted but the title cactes more attention.


Let's see how many we have so far

Tai chi 1

8step mantis 3:

Joel Sutton 2 I believe (soemone please correct me on this)

Some kid from the old 8 step site 1

That's a total of 4

Oh and yes this is an obvious troll post. I calculate that Ralek will be posting in here within at least 32 hours or at least read it.

:D

[NorthernMantis]

TTT

Well looks like I was proved wrong. Ralek has more control than I thought or maybe he's scared to show his face now that I proved him wrong.:D

[beautifulvaley]

while your at the site enter in the caption contest
at ucc western explosion[july 20th in calgary] there will be 3 fighters entering form northern lights tai chi
Jeremiah Cram
Aaron Kravchyk[spelling ?]
Greg Marshall
everyone should order it on ppv
"tai chi, one of the oldest forms of mma"

[Archangel]

Actually Jerimiah,

Pankration pre dates Tai Chi, It's definately older.

[Braden]

bv - Good luck to you and your teammates at the upcoming fights. Sorry that that last one got cancelled.

[Le nOObi]

Originally posted by Archangel
Actually Jerimiah,

Pankration pre dates Tai Chi, It's definately older.

He said one of the oldest not the oldest!

[beautifulvaley]

i edited my mistake out

[Le nOObi]

oh i feel dumb!

[Rolling Elbow]

There is no such thing as JKD, Tai Chi, Hop Gar, Ninjutsu, Boxing etc.... only a winner and a loser! Martial artists are like two dogs fighting..they clash, go down, and then someone wins with better technique or luck....no style involved because good technique is generic! Booya!

[diego]

RollingElbow Exactly its all tricks and strategem's borrowed from the old folks, sad thing is...it was always brotherhoods, plus the whole red gaurd fiasco for the last 60 years sort of revolutionizing the culture?, Most who learnt good kf in the past and were not really known as fighters, were scholars who enjoyed the fantasy of the classics oppossed to thier day to day lessons on Confusion:p studies, and the other type who was simcere in thier practise but didnt really become a strong fighter, were sons of the masters who really only got exercise out of the forced workouts in his youth!.

2me if you strip down good kungfu its resemblance is gracefull streetfighting, wheras jujitsu has a history of chessboxing in that the cliche description one could fit to a hardcore practitioner is to set your opponnent up for submissions - obviously kf has this, what i am saying the general and overall attitude behind kf technique is to strike **** hard and ruthlessly, such as what kind of nice gestures could one do within the usage of a tiger claw a spear hand or a index-fist.= Not Many

jj tech is made to be nice, comparable how royce is a small guy but he was in the spotlight with respect tyson had in his day!, so its a david vs goliath attitude to thier techniques and strategems.

So, its my understanding the attitude behind the usage of kf's techniques, is akin to a lion vs a sick kill wheras jj has the attitude of the strategems behind a boas Constriction then swallow you whole, wheras kf is all about roll up on you swarm you then rip your throat & Gut you. This is the attitude in my hopgar techniques, and from the kajukenbo wich is part jap jj, some of the attitude i get from the tech' strat's remind me of the cool behind a boa cooking BBQ:)

**** i didnt want to write all this-

k so the problem is and the point behind this expose- styles were closed through brotherhoods, so if you were known for true kffighting skill, that was because you grew up with your brothers and you lived it. Now, today Good KF is still highly closeddoor, plus the fact back in the day with my bro.org true skill referance, thier was somewhat government support behind kf's military skills, so thier was a scientific approach within Legendary kf era's, wheras now we all know the prc isnt really doing anything with the masses to highly evolve chinas kf traditions, then we have this whole thing about guns, and all the guys who learnt somekind of workout then describing true fight skill in thier resume wich calculates as charlatan.

Thier isnt much to work with for the masses with all the secerecy unless you learnt from someone who has some kind of true indoor experiance, thier is not many clubs you can goto and just working with the boys and hanging out, the way most lessons are set up many don't recieve the right attidue to do the technique, A perfect example is HungGar Jon the kfo forum user, what he wrote a few weeks ago about his sifu saying you have good skill, but i have concerns about your ability to issue force.
Unfortunatly with lawsuits and secerecy thier is not much of the coolness behind the old masters who made reps out of wartime, its mostly schools that can only show you how to dance like Him, Wich leads to the modern defense of it is the practitioner not the dance.

Wheras if thier was no secerecy it would be taught within the masses as a science, or a trade such as blacksmith, wheras all the damage
done to kfs rep since the commies took over that is all many really can show, doto secerecy
the gun & basically nothing really stimulating the need for many to create proper focus, all many present orgs really have the option to teach is a religion and not a Trade!.

this is my understaning and feelings on this thread...? well the point i made in this thread; Obviously these are my thoughts and feelings in this thread actual:p





























:rolleyes:

[Shooter]

J's win had nothing to do with luck. The only "technique" was his ability to not focus on techniques and apply Tai Chi's 5 Steps and basic 8 Gates.

[Stacey]

can you please explain that further?

[Shooter]

who are you asking?

[Stacey]

you, shooter, can you explain the 5 steps positional strategy?

I thought it was forward, back, left, right and center. Am I off here? Please enlighten me.

[Shooter]

Stacey, yes. Those are the 5 Steps. We apply their strategies to ring-fighting which don't differ greatly from having them apply to the real.

[KungFuGuy!]

Ha! The kickboxer even had height, weight, and probably experience on the Tai Chi guy. Cool :D

[PaulLin]

From the pictures, one doesn't look like having any kickboxer's move at all. The other one don't have Taichi postures and moves eighther. Plus, he is only 18, it is very difficult to understand Taichi at that age that will support him to make Taichi working for fight.

If you say the 5 steps are applying here, which will give his root and balance in preventing falling, then I did saw him stood on feet in all 6 pictures, but I have not seen the whole fight.

[Kumkuat]

This is like saying Gary Goodridge actually used arm wrestling to beat his opponent. Of course, I too have not seen the fight, but I doubt that guy actually used taijiquan to beat his opponent.

[Royal Dragon]

Is once it becomes your primary art, now matter what you do, it becomes Taji'afied. Every thing from the way you stand to shifting your wieght, to the way you hold your shouldes and hips is all done the Taji way.

Someone who has only done the Long form for heath would not be able to see it in the ring, but someone who actually practices it for combat would look at two ring fighter's, and definately see the Taji in the moves and manerisums of the Taji guy fighting.

[Braden]

How is "He didn't use taiji to win the fight" even a logically consistent statement?

[PaulLin]

Taichi is internal. It will have to be better to feel it rather than look at it. Unless it is too far off.

[dre]

I have the same experience ,not with Tai Chi, but with fencing. Once you learn fencing, everything westernizes to a point. You're footwrok wil always echo fencing movement. You'll borrow the method of movment from fencing.

This may be only trueor me (I studied fencing since being a young child) but I think that sometimes, someone can be so strong in one martial art, as for that arts' influence to carry elsewhere.

[Nexus]

Style is unimportant if you are not constricted by your own fears. Style is what people will label what you did, and often those labels occur to support the 'styles' that those people who label them participate in.

If his movements do not look like the movements of taiji one is familiar seeing, this does not make them taiji movements nor does this NOT make them taiji movements.

If an acclaimed tai chi master were to have fought, and lost, would you say that he too was not doing taiji?

[KungFuGuy!]

How can you be so sure that he was not using tai chi to fight his opponent? A few still pictures? Please :rolleyes:

Dre, it's not so much being "strong" in a martial art that causes you to echo that style in other arts you study, it's that if it's the first thing you studied for a decent amount of time, elements of that art tend to incorporate themselves into your style with other arts. I experience pretty much the same thing as you, only with taekwondo.

[PaulLin]

As I have seen many now, a lot of MArtists are doing a style-free way of training. In wich they will incorperate other styles moves and place them under other style's name.

I think the style issue has to do with the mental/motive. (some one in another thread has said it is cultural related) We should be here to express how each of us has practiced and trained ourselves, not to tell who should follow certain way to be correct, that was in the past.

If there is a certain way that must be achieved by loyaling to a style like in the old days, it should be brought up in a suggesting way, not like setting any standard or rules.

That is what I meant to do.

[dre]

Originally posted by KungFuGuy!

Dre, it's not so much being "strong" in a martial art that causes you to echo that style in other arts you study, it's that if it's the first thing you studied for a decent amount of time, elements of that art tend to incorporate themselves into your style with other arts. I experience pretty much the same thing as you, only with taekwondo.

How long were you in TKD? I've been a Fencer since about 10 years old.

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

PualLin how old do you think it takes to be to understand tai chi?

[KungFuGuy!]

That's cool, dre.
I did tkd from when I was 9 up to about 11 months ago, for a total of 9 years.

[fa_jing]

EEWW! Those pictures definitely convinced me I don't want to fight MMA. I might enter a Tough Man comp, though, someday.
I train to improve, and for fun - I'm not that competitive, though.

-FJ

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by FistOfTheNorthSide
PualLin how old do you think it takes to be to understand tai chi?

I think it has to do with the person's family/cultural background, personality, and personal/life experiences. The years can't really determind this. But you don't expect a pre-adult to understand this since there is not adult experience. Then again, there may be miricle existed.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by KungFuGuy!

Dre, it's not so much being "strong" in a martial art that causes you to echo that style in other arts you study, it's that if it's the first thing you studied for a decent amount of time, elements of that art tend to incorporate themselves into your style with other arts. I experience pretty much the same thing as you, only with taekwondo.

Yeah, I know this thread is a few days older than dirt, but I disagree with this. muay thai wasn't my first style or the first I studied for a decent amount of time, but it's what comes out most, because that's what I was strongest at.

[Shooter]

When the only things a guy has trained in preparation for his MMA includes Chi Kung, 5 Steps, and 8 Gates, what system is he's using?

It's not everyday that a Tai Chi player beats a Team Quest fighter from Couture's gym. Maybe all the idiots who posted on this thread trying to tear down and dismiss J's Tai Chi skillz were just suffering from shell-shock. :p ...ah the memories...

[Merryprankster]

It's not everyday that a Tai Chi player beats a Team Quest fighter from Couture's gym.

A tad disingenuous, but true, in and of itself. :D

[Shooter]

Disingenuous? Not intentionally. I'm just giving props to J. :)

He and his teamates have already done more to proof their TCC in the public arena than most every 'teacher' or fellow player on this continent ever will.

[Merryprankster]

Amen to that.

I have already promised myself I am going to come play up there sometime. I hope you don't mind :D

[Shooter]

Merryprankster, that'd be hellakewl. :D *cracking knuckles*