How much upper body work is too much?

[MantisKungFu]

Hey all. I'm trying to build up my arms and upper body. To do so, I do pushups one day and then lift some free-weights and do crunches the next day. For 5/6 days a week I also run about 2 and 3/4 miles. So, is doing my pushups one day and then crunches + free-weights the next day too much? Could I do more harm than good? Let me know, thanks!

[respectmankind]

no. hell. i do upper and lower 5 days a week. that includes, pushups, crunches, diamond pushups, streching, bench, incline, curl, tricp exstenion, compound row, decline row, shoulder press, shoulder pull down back and chest, dips. that is only uupper body. you have to change it up a bit, because you get usex dto it. as of right now i am only working with weight i can do 4-5 times, as far as multi joint ones go. i do this 5 days a week, upper body alone and it works just fine and i have no bad side effects aside from one, awhile back. when i first started this routine, as some people might remember, i was getting tendonitus. (sorry about the spelling, i am going fast because i need to leave soon.)

[MantisKungFu]

Ok, thanks for the response. I've also read that you need to vary the routine so your muscles don't get used to the same thing. But... I don't really know how to vary it? I do diamond pushups, wide pushups, and regular. I guess I could vary my pace + # of reps? And how should I vary my free weights? I only have 2 20lbs and 2 10lbs weights, so I don't have too many options. I guess I could try slower/facer reps and again, change number of reps?

Thanks...

[IronFist]

Do not neglect your lower body. If you are training for mass, you will look funny with a huge upper body and skinny legs. You could also become top heavy. This has obvious disadvantages in a fight.

If you're training for maximum strength, it would be weird if you could, say, bench more than you could squat or deadlift.

Don't work out if you the muscles you are going to be using are sore from a previous workout. So if you do pushups one day, and your chest is sore the next day, it would be a bad idea to do bench press then.

Make sense?

IronFist

[respectmankind]

well, that will do good. changed teh spead, the size of your grip. also, change teh ammount of reps you can do (change weight actually, to get different reps) like i have a high wieght now for like flat bench, and do say 4-5, and do about 5 sets

[respectmankind]

i humley disagree about the soar thing but totaly agree about the lower body thing! if your squat isn't atleast 200 pounds above you bench you are retarded. oh, and if you are going to lift a good deal... eat a good deal. as of right now i am downing five steaks. all i have eaten all day. oh, and don't take my advice as far as 5 steaks. i am big but also i have about 18 percent obody fat.. it helps me in what i do, and in fact hinders me in no way, and is about my normal body weight, but if you don't want this don't eat what i do. by teh way, i do run quite often people. for some people, genetcialy i could sopend ten minuts in a gym and gain 70 pounds of muscle but run 9 hours and not lose a pound,. exagerated opfcoarse.

[David Jamieson]

when your head is no longer visible because your upper body is grossly huge... you've done too much.

true story...

peace

[respectmankind]

possible, another question entirely

[IronFist]

Originally posted by respectmankind
i humley disagree about the soar thing

You mean about not working out when the muscles you're going to use are sore?

Well, ok. In some instances it's ok to work out a muscle that is already sore, but for the most part, and especially for the newbie, it's a bad idea to work out a muscle that is still sore from a previous workout. This doesn't mean you can't work out other muscles, just not the sore ones.

It's possible to make progress if you don't let your muscles heal completely, however, in most cases it will be much slower than if you did let them heal. Overtraining and uh, anti-progress can also result.

Please post your reasons for disagreeing with me.

IronFist

[respectmankind]

well, i didn't state it and i suppose it was importnat that i should have. you shouldn't do, say heavy weights that day on that muscle, but do not neglect it. pushups, dips, will always help. and weights, but say if i did 4-5 rep for 5 sets. the next day do something like 10-13 reps, for 2 sets. not so heavy, but i am a believer in that. also, working out everyday, if you are not used to it, or doing 2 hours like someone who has more experience is ****ing stupid. unless you are fit pretty good before you start.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by respectmankind
well, i didn't state it and i suppose it was importnat that i should have. you shouldn't do, say heavy weights that day on that muscle, but do not neglect it. pushups, dips, will always help. and weights, but say if i did 4-5 rep for 5 sets. the next day do something like 10-13 reps, for 2 sets. not so heavy, but i am a believer in that. also, working out everyday, if you are not used to it, or doing 2 hours like someone who has more experience is ****ing stupid. unless you are fit pretty good before you start.

Ouch. Don't neglect training a sore muscle? Uh, 99% of the time that's a bad idea. Light, light work on a sore muscle can be beneficial as it promotes blood flow and stuff, but I would never advise anyone to do sets of many pushups if their pecs were sore from benching the day before.

As for working out every day, it depends on your goals. You will never see a successful bodybuilder training the same muscle more than once every 5 days (some even go 10-14 days between workouts).

But other workouts are fine every day. I deadlift every day, but it's only 2 sets of 5 reps (Pavel style) so any trauma I cause is always minimal enough that it's healed within 24 hours (most of the time). But if my legs or lower back were sore, I wouldn't deadlift the next day, especially if I'm peaking.

IronFist

[SevenStar]

Listen to Iron - he knows what he's talkin bout

[diego]

I havent read this thread yet, but here is a caution on upperbody training, you know how bruce lee had pretty good lats for his size!, his doctor mentioned in a article, bruce broke two of his ribs doing a roundhouse kick in the air; he had to much muscle around his ribs and he did a hard kick and snap!.

[JWTAYLOR]

You guys may be talking about two different things.

If you are training with heavy weights, fairly low reps, (less than 12) to complete failure, then you will be very, very sore. Your white muscle fiber will be tearing up muslce something fierce. Acid builds up and it really effects those muscles, tendons and joins. Everything associated with those muscles will contract. As soon as your body gets some rest and fuel, it will start building back those muscles. Your body knows that it has been stressed and builds those mucles/tendons/joints up stronger and larger than before so that it can handle future stress.

If you don't give your body fuel and rest, your body will not be able to completely rebuild those muscle fibers, significantly slowing your progress. Lactic acid will still be built up, that sore feeling means your still "torn up" in there and that your rebuild isn't finished.

So, in that case, don't train when your sore. Let your body rest and rebuild, you'll get allot stronger, allot faster.



However, if you are training bodyweight exercises, doing lots of reps and relatively low weight, you will not hit that deep muscle fiber the same way. Your body doesn't need nearly the same amount of rest to repair. You'll still be sore, but not the same kind of sore. Those of you who've done really heavy lifting and then went to bodyweight exercieses (like me) definatley know what I'm talking about.

For instance, let's say I do 100 pushups. Half an hour later, I can get back down to the floor and rap out another 50. Now, that's a b!tch, but I can do it. Compare that with when I used to lift weights. Let's say I benched 180bs (remember I'm only 160lbs) three times. Half and hour later I get back on that bench, unrack it, and I'll be shot in the face and pi$$ed on if I can do one rep. The next day I'll be sore if I've done the pushups, but it's a whole different type of sore than when I've sone the heavy lifting. The next day, I'll still be able to do the 100 pushups, but there is no way in hell I can still do the 180lbs 3 times.

You don't need the same kind of rest when you are doing bodyweight exercises than when you are heavy lifting.

JWT

[fa_jing]

I basically agree with Mr. JWT, for instance, you can practice your horse stance about 5 days a week. I no longer weight train.

But, interestingly enough, I made my best gains lifting weights when I was squatting about 5 days a week, and bench pressing on 2 consecutive days. Seemed like I was kick-starting the whole building process. Later, I backed of from this, only working each body part 2-3 times a week, and continued to make gains.
Once your body adjusts to the heavy weight lifting, I think it is possible to take it to a higher level of intensity, then of course you need to back off on the frequency.

-FJ

[IronFist]

Originally posted by JWTAYLOR
You guys may be talking about two different things.

If you are training with heavy weights, fairly low reps, (less than 12) to complete failure,

When I first read that, I was like, "eh? 12 reps is low?" But then I read your other point about 100 pushups so I guess 12 reps is comparatively low.

However, with weights, I would consider 12 reps a lot. Obviously, there's no distinct cutoff that says "this is high reps, this is low reps." I would only consider 12 a lot because there's really no reason ever to do more than 12 reps in a set (for the most part).

With bodyweight stuff, 12 can be a lot, too! How many people can do 12 one handed handstand pushups? If someone told me they did 12 of those I'd be like "Whoa! That's high reps!"

I'm quitting now before this post gets any more off topic.

:D

IronFist