your stances suck

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

in a debate about using the eye gouge against a take down .. .

merry prankster . . . "If you want to attend your balance first and eye-gouge secondly, great. But if you are planning on pulling this off as you are lifted or bent over backwards, then you are mistaken."

i agree with mp. that's why i really like stances . . . any stace . . . . to be weighted 50/50. i think this gives you the most stability and manuverability once you get used to it.

i have heard a lot of people favor putting most of the weight on the back leg but i think that makes you weak on certain angles.

i am **** poor drunk.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

you can kick fine from a 50/50 weighted stance once you learn to stop dragging your roots with the kick.

[OdderMensch]

my stance sucks thanks.
Of course, thats how I'm stable, ;)

Aren't bipeds always weak from certain angles?


i am **** poor drunk.

i'm just tired.

[Mr Punch]

I like lying down: then nobody can knock me over!

My horse sucks, and I practice that a lot...:(

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

the title was just to get attention. i was wondering what people thought about 50/50 stances vs. rear weighted ones.

i'm actually very shocked my first post made as much sense as it did. i was litterally swaying back and forth in my seat as i wrote it.

[Merryprankster]

No, YOUR stances suck.

[rogue]

Whatever stance works at the time. When backing up I use a front stance and use the rear leg to feel for obstacles behind me. Other than that I move from stance to stance as needed.

[Braden]

GDA - Single-weighted stances can offer remarkable stablity and maneuverability, but they have to be trained specifically and rigorously. Holding stances, circlewalking, and static and dynamic rooting training are excellent tools for this from baguazhang. But in this sense a stance is not something which is held. The single-weight means the first thing that happens is movement. The internal arts make quite an art of fading one side of the body to force while extending the other side simultaneously to attack. This means training single-weighted stances. I've found the effect to be pretty impressive. You should seek out a qualified individual to experience it if you can.

[PaulLin]

In 8 step mantis, the #6, tiggerhead stance is very good for resisting any kind of take down moves, it is either 40/30% weight in front and 60/70% in the back leg.

[TjD]

in my style of wing chun (ip ching), we use the 0/100 weighting, however we "grab" the ground so to speak

so even though all the weight is on your back leg, its extremely similar to a 50/50 stance

the grip allows the back leg to kick with a definate snap (quickly and easily), even though all the weight may be on it; it also adds another level of root

in playing around with this grip, ive found that it allows for quicker movements, more stability, and even adds what seems almost like a whipping power to hand motions done while turning

personally, i think it gives many of the advantages of a 50/50 stance, while retaining the advantages of a single-weighted stance

so i think they both 50/50 and 0/100 have their advantages, but this version is the best ive ever come across, and i like it better than a 50/50 stance; with perhaps the exception of the horse stance, but that isnt a stance i stay in very long while fighting/sparring

in my experiences with someone trying to take me down however, the horse stance is still my best bet, simply because its so low to ground, and so extremely rooted


i think these two stances do a great job in covering all the bases
and at the moment i dont see the need for any more

peace
travis

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i can definatley see more movility in single weighted stances, though i have a hard time understanding how it can actually add more root or stability. i understand that the extra mobility will allow you to remain stable by entering/evading/moving somehow (which should be the case any time your reacting to being off ballanced), but i still think it's structurally more vulnerable to say a blind sided take down attempt.

also do you guys work specific movements to defend against the weak angles for the single weighted stances.

[fa_jing]

We do a 60-40 stance for training, but in application, my Sifu says that sometimes your 100-0, sometimes your 90-10, sometimes your 50-50, etc. Because you're moving. For instance, to take a step forward by pushing off with your back leg, you briefly shift all your weight to the back leg. To take a step backward pushing off with the front leg, you briefly shift all your weight to the front leg. Despite what some people have said on this board, once you lift up one of your legs, 100% of your weight is on the other leg, unless you have momentum jumping up into the air, in which case, 100% of whatever weight you are putting to the ground, is still going through the leg that's making contact with the ground. Hopefully your sober now, so you might understand that. :cool:
This goes for stepping, kicking, whatever. The purpose, as I understand it, of us practicing the 60-40 stance, is for those static positions that you briefy find yourself, blocking, waiting for the opponent to move, etc. Also, so that when you punch, you don't shift so much of the weight into the front leg, like a boxer does. This is like over-extending yourself and exposes your front leg to a kick, the impact of this would be greater. I still end up shifting at least some weight (70%??) into the front leg when I punch, especially with my version of the cross. I'm sure this habit would be exacerbated if we didn't practice this way.

-FJ
-FJ

[dragontounge2]

The best stances in my opinion are:

Ma Bo- Its 50-50 stance Thighs parallel and toes to the front and body turned half way.

Lau Ma- the twisting horse 60-40 stance the front foot flat on the ground and back heel raised very quick moving stance and sturdy with practice.

Tu ma- a 0-100 stance you stand on one leg its used for leg sweeps and quick kicks.

& chung sik.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

fa-jing ... right .. i hear ya. i didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't be using whatever the situation demanded. i have 60/40 stances and some 90/10 that i use frequently as well, but i was wondering what some people's reasons were for favoring one over the other. after moving i find myself naturally in a 50/50 stance more often than not. .. thus i obviously favor this weight distribution. just tryin to see the other side of the fence.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

dragon . .. i use the first stance you mentioned allot. slightly differant variations, but pretty much the same thing.

could you describe the second a little more though? specifically how are your feet positioned.

[dragontounge2]

The feet are positioned like a curtsey, a womens bow. And the arms are by your side like a horse stance.
Just stand up cross your left leg over your right. Then lift the heel of the right leg off the ground so you stand on your toes.

[Braden]

GDA - Stability comes from two things: moving with the force and maintaining a strong ground path. Both of these are easier on one leg with practice. Asking about weak angles just doesn't make any sense. The angle and weightedness of your stance is given to you by what your opponent does. This isn't footwork to dance around your opponent, this is footwork for engaging your opponent. Short of your opponent teleporting, you're ok. And even then, since the movement is rotating around a single point - what is the weak angle of force on a revolving door or a spinning top?

[PaulLin]

As Fa-jing has said, I think the 50-50 in compare with 60-40 is the mobility. In 50-50, you will most likely find your self to be stuck or tangle up with your opponent. So in that case, if the original move didn't work well, it can end up in a mess.

60-40 constanly giving room for redirecting forces if needed, and it is also as firm as 50-50.

In Taichi, it says to avoid the double weighted situations when confronting an attack form opponent. That is the 50-50 situation.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"Asking about weak angles just doesn't make any sense"

yes it does.

"since the movement is rotating around a single point - what is the weak angle of force on a revolving door or a spinning top?"

and so does that.

my question makes sense because footwork will not always work if you're game isn't on ... . or if his is a little better he'll find the angles as you are moving. if my question didn't make sense there would be far less unbalancing techniques in all martial arts. however you did answer my question as vaguely as it was asked.

[Braden]

Heh. Well, obviously it's a matter of who's skill is higher. :)

I guess the discussion IS pretty vague. But the answer is there - the movement itself is the training to get out of the bad angles. You're trying to be good at that. The other guy is trying to be good at stopping you.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"Stability comes from two things: moving with the force and maintaining a strong ground path. Both of these are easier on one leg with practice."

agreed i see your point. the same can be done with weight evenly distributed but you must be able to shift more weight in the same amount of time. i'm slowly getting the hang of it. again, im not saying that i don't like back weighted stances, just that i personally favor evenly weighted ones. what you said about a spinning top makes a lot of sence, it was a good analogy, but humans aren't tops and there are leverage points that can be moved into even if they are rotating around a single point. i understand the goal is to always flow with the force, but mistakes happen and at this point in my training i feel more secure evenly weighted.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

nevermind . .. da mn your quick.

[PaulLin]

Just to share, I have learned that alway to quote others words if you are responding to it. They can modify their words after your respond.

The spinning top need a super good stepping training and very tough feet-legs-hips-waist strengh.