Lamar Davis and Vunak "Two of a kind"

[williamsremo]

I couldn't believe my eyes! I visited Paul Vunak's web site as well as Lamar Davis's and there it was! I could become an instructor of JKD or Jun Fan in only a TWO DAY session! WOW! Now I too can be a bad a#% JKD instructor and lure new students to my school by advertizing that I am a teacher of the system developed by the King of Kung Fu, Bruce Lee. and with only a two day investment plus quite a bit of MONEY! No wonder there are soooo many JKD instructors out there. This is a disgrace!

[rogue]

I think there's more to it than that. I don't know about Lamars course and can speak for himself here, but you can contact Ryu on the main forum as he is certified under Vunak.

[Demi @ CSPT]

Nope, that's it!

[rogue]

Demi, do you mean no prior training under a PFS instructor?:confused:

[Ryu]

Hi guys. I had prior training in PFS before my IPTP with Vunak. In fact I had a lot, a couple years worth. I recieved a phase 1 instructorship on june 6th, 1998. Paul's teaching method is very unique, and in my mind pretty realistic, but I do believe he doesn't just hand actual teaching certificates out to people who don't deserve them. The apprentice instructorship (of which I thought I was going to get at the time) does NOT certify someone to be a "JKD" instructor. At least that's what was going on at the time. I don't know how things have changed. However, I've always known Paul to be a straightforward and respectable individual. I don't know if I'd advertise like he does.. :) but he's definitely someone worth training under.

For the record, I don't claim to be a "JKD Instructor", although I'm thinking of possibly writing a book or two on the subject in the near future. I don't "coach" anyone except close friends who request it. I'd much rather keep training myself then get mixed up too much in the politics that unfortunately IS JKD ......

Ryu

[jmdrake]

Hello Williamsremo,

Have you been trying out for a part on the TV show "clueless"? ;) I don't know what "Lamar Davis" site you went to, but the one I read says nothing about becoming an instructor in 2 days. It does say you can become an instructor trainee off the bat. Instructor trainees are just that. Think of it as a "pre-med" student. Anyway to become an instructor at any level you have to pass a test.

http://www.hardcorejkd.com/jkd/academy/rank.php

Regards,

John M. Drake

[williamsremo]

Hey, JMDRAKE,
try www.jfaa.8m.com/hit.htm
Below is a direct quote! Next time, know what you are talking about before shooting your mouth off!

"At the completion of your H.I.T. session, you will receive a certificate which reflects the results of your training! If you come prepared and work hard, it is possible to achieve Apprentice Instructor Level I status after a two day session! "

-Remo

[williamsremo]

You may also try the following link on the site you posted, read carefully!

http://www.hardcorejkd.com/jkd/academy/hit.php

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by williamsremo
Hey, JMDRAKE,
try www.jfaa.8m.com/hit.htm
Below is a direct quote! Next time, know what you are talking about before shooting your mouth off!

"At the completion of your H.I.T. session, you will receive a certificate which reflects the results of your training! If you come prepared and work hard, it is possible to achieve Apprentice Instructor Level I status after a two day session! "

-Remo

Hey Einstein, that link that you gave is not accessable! Besides, your quote is taken out of context. Apprentice Level I requires passing a test. You may or may not be able to pass the test after a two day hit session.

[williamsremo]

How about this link "Lamar Breath"
http://www.hardcorejkd.com/jkd/academy/hit.php

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by williamsremo
How about this link "Lamar Breath"
http://www.hardcorejkd.com/jkd/academy/hit.php

Good job grasshopper! Now since you were able to follow the link that I gave you would you also like me to send you a quote from the student manual on how to become an instructor? You have to take a test. The H.I.T. session can prepare you for the test. But the certificate for the H.I.T. session is not the same thing as an Apprentice Level I certificate.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[jmdrake]

Hello williamremo,

While reading the HardCoreJKD site you apparently missed this part.

http://www.hardcorejkd.com/jkd/academy/rank.php

Here is a quote:

APPRENTICE INSTRUCTOR LEVEL I -
This is someone who has passed the Apprentice Instructor test, is familiar with the basic Beginning Student Level material and is qualified to teach it to others. This status allows the individual to start a class and teach the Beginning Level material.

Have a nice day!

Regards,

John M. Drake

[williamsremo]

Two questions Mr. Drake.
Did it not say that "it is possible to achieve Apprentice Instructor Level I status after a two day session! " ?
And Is that not what my original post stated.

Nuff said!

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by williamsremo
Two questions Mr. Drake.
Did it not say that "it is possible to achieve Apprentice Instructor Level I status after a two day session! " ?
And Is that not what my original post stated.

Nuff said!

Hello williamsremo,

Sometimes a half truth is the worst kind of lie.

Enough said!

[SifuLMDII]

Hello Everyone!

The H.I.T. Program is something that is usually taken by someone who has previous training! Of course, if you have no previous training, it would not be possible to achieve Apprentice Instructor Level I with just a two day H.I.T. session. That is too much material to cover with someone in two days expecting them to fully comprehend and retain the knowledge! I don't "give" away anything! It has to be earned! It's just that simple! As far as the price, my time is very valuable to me, and if I am going to set aside that much time to train one person, I have to be well compensated for it! If you could spend a week in my shoes you would know what I am talking about!

[LEGEND]

If I had the money I would pay to train with both Lamar and Paul...both of these guys have good teaching rep...and can back it up!

[williamsremo]

My original post was aimed at the way these two men advertize their programs. I have seen both men by way of video and have read with intrest what both men have written. For what it is worth, I think Paul Vunak is pathetic. He is very sloppy and has no structure to his movements. My opinion of Lamar Davis leans in the opposite direction. He looks to be very talented. His movements are crisp, well structured and his writings show that he is very knowledgable. I just have a major problem with the way both men HYPE their programs. Mr. Davis may very well have very strict standards, but the "TWO DAY" comment may lead people to think otherwise.

Peace
-Remo:D

[LEGEND]

Well William photos of VUNAK in action certainly does look sloppy! But keep in mind PHOTOs are half truth. I have never trained with either but have trained a student of VUNAK and I can tell you they are devastating! Vunak favors some of the kali methods over the STRICT structure of wing chun/jun fan...so it looks hella sloppy. But the truth is VUNAK is a PSYCHO PATH! In a real fight...he's as dirty and as street oriented as you come.

[williamsremo]

Well Legend, I said I had seen VIDEO of Vunak, not just photos. And you can tell quite a bit from video. Being dirty and being dirty and good are two different things. His videos advertise him demonstrating "Full Contact" against boxers, karate, kung fu and street fighters. But when you watch his video, the guys he is "SPARRING" against are his own students, and are not very good representatives of the systems they are fighting with, ie. Boxing, Karate, .... .... ..... Plus the fact they are not going as hard on him as he is on them. I was very interested in seeing this guy Vunak, I may have been expecting too much since I had seen him in so many Mag's. But I was very unimpressed. Just one mans opinion!

[Ryu]

I've sparred with the man himself, both standing and on the ground. He's a good fighter. He's now very skilled in BJJ as are most of his students. When someone actually gears up and fights (or spars against resistence) it tends to look somewhat sloppy. That's the nature of fighting. A demonstration that looks crisp and good is one thing.... but doing it in application against a resistent man is another.
You could say the same thing about mount. Anybody can look "good" in the mount. They might even be able to move into an armbar with a crisp look to it. However, things get a bit hairy when you're putting 100% resistence behind it. The person who is really "good" at the mount will know how to keep it, not get bucked off, etc.

This isn't meant to imply Mr. Davis doesn't spar. I'm certain that he does, and I'm certain he's very good too. Just pointing out that demo and live fighting are too way different things.

Ryu

[rogue]

I've poked fun at some of Vunaks marketing, but I'll never criticize him about being sloppy. Loose yes, but not sloppy. Having only seen him on video I'd say he has a more relaxed style than some others. But since Ryu worked with him he's the best to critique the mans skills.

If you think Vunak is sloppy you must hate the Systema guys.

[LEGEND]

LOL...I figured as much! Vunak is a badass from my knowledge of him in the SEAL dayz. And I have known peeps that have trained with him. So if u don't think he's good...spar him and find out! Some peeps think BRUCE LEE tech suck...ahhhhhhhh video tape.

[NorthernMantis]

Hey are there any online video's on this Vunak guy? This thread got me interested in seeingwhat he is like.

[LEGEND]

U know Panthervideo had him doing some stuff but they have all taken down all the clips since CENTURY/MA is marketing them. I have seen some of his stuff...and it's not solid cause he flows from JKD to KALI to others. From what I hear...he's well verse in several martial art systems but prefers JKD/MUY THAI/KALI standup fighting.

[Ryu]

There's some clips of him here.

http://www.pfsvideo.com/

[fgxpanzerz]

Anyone ever heard of this? People like to think that if they join the armed forces they will become superhuman fighters/supersmart, whatever. AND if someone is a member of the "dreaded" marine corps or is a "Navy SEAl" then they have even more super powers. Let's be realistic here. If someone is a bad a$$, they would've been no matter what training they had. The military doesnt do anything super for u. Some marines I've talked to said they learned a lot of fighting stuff and others have said they didnt learn d!ck in the marines.