Punching form/effectiveness

[Kungfu boy]

Hey All,

Personally I have been doing mainly jkd/muay thai but have worked with wing chun guys occassionally. In jkd and wing chun I see the vertical fist alot, while in thai we corkscrew our punches at the end to a horiziontal angle. My question is which do you guys do and which have you found most effective?

Thanks

[dragontounge2]

I find that the wing chun punch is alot more effective I can get the same power from my elbo and body that i can with my shoulder and my body. The wing chun punch is a lot faster by the time you draw back to punch you'll already be hit and a counter on the way.

[Cyborg]

There's already been a major discussion of this, just look it up.

IMO, one will not hit harder than the other. What determines how I hit is where I want my arm to be. I'll use a vertical fist with my lead (jab) and the horizontal with the rear straight (cross). You can also "corksrew" with the lead when angling around the opponent. Example: you have a right lead, as he throws a punch start the lead hand with a vertical fist and while you step forward and right turn it into a horizontal fist while making your left foot swing to the right so you still face your opponent.

It also depends on your target, whether or not you have to punch between his arms or not. Practice with both and use what's applicable.

[SevenStar]

I don't think that drawing back the hand is a factor. you punch one after the other, which is fine. In MT, I will jab, then cross, then hook, then cross, then uppercut... get it? one hand is drawing back, but it's not passive because while it is drawing back, the other is striking. Chain punching offers no advantage in that manner.

[SevenStar]

One advantage a boxing punch offers over that is protection. When a cross or overhand right is thrown, the shoulder guards the chin. also, the drawn back hand is guarding the face. this is not so with chain punching, from what I've seen of it.

[dragontounge2]

You dont punch straight. You pak sao to the right so he cant guard his face and your center line is always protected.:eek:

[yu shan]

Good thread KungfuBoy, we believe in transformation of Fajing energy from the "waist" thru the technique (hands or feet).

[Kungfu boy]

Thanks Yu Shan....

As for the waist to the technique, we put our hips into everything. Makes it a lot more effective for sure. Right now I am working on my boxing mainly, so I'm learning as much as I can.

SevenStar, how long have you trained MT? What you described is exactly what we do in my school. We build up the combos from there. Always the jab/cross/hook start or some variation of it.

Thanks for the replies guys.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i like both but tend to favor the horizontal fist a little.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

not that i know how to punch like a wing chun guy. i just mean using a vertical fist. i think wing chun punches suck and were made as a joke to real martial artists.

[Merryprankster]

GDA--

What's your reasoning? I don't agree or disagree, just curious.

[dragontounge2]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
not that i know how to punch like a wing chun guy. i just mean using a vertical fist. i think wing chun punches suck and were made as a joke to real martial artists.

Well maybe you should learn??? You cant judge something you dont know about.:mad: :rolleyes:

[Cipher]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
not that i know how to punch like a wing chun guy. i just mean using a vertical fist. i think wing chun punches suck and were made as a joke to real martial artists.

GDA = Big fat hary troll

[Cipher]

The horizontal Wing Chun punch is not always chain punching. WC punches can be used in combination with other types of punching. You don't have to be limited to only using one style at a time, mix it up.

WC punches can generate a lot of power, turned into hooking or winging punches easily and can be used with hooks, crosses, uppercuts ect. ect. combo.

WC punch can be used with a quick elbow strike from the same punching hand too, of course you can do it with other punches but the horizontal possition makes it a little quicker I think.

I like both methods depending on what I want to do.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

merry and drag . .. i was just fu ckin around

. ... rolls style

cipher . . .

im little and hairy.

[Cipher]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
merry and drag . .. i was just fu ckin around

. ... rolls style

cipher . . .

im little and hairy.

Ha ha, sorry.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by dragontounge2
You dont punch straight. You pak sao to the right so he cant guard his face and your center line is always protected.:eek:

yes, you do pak sao ato the right. And your centerline is protected, which is when the MT cross becomes an overhand right and goes over it. Everything can counter everything.

As for him not guarding his face, what do you think his rear hand is doing? If I am throwing a cross, that shoulder will be raised guarding the chin. Even if you pak to the right, my shoulder is still in virtually the same position. also, it's only left out long enough for me to release the next punch. As for my rear hand, it was guarding the MT guy's face from the outset, and your pak on his punching hand had no effect on his rear guarding hand.

[SevenStar]

I started back in 96, but the school I was at closed in 99. I still train it on my own and with a few friends, but started training in longfist when the school closed. Longfist isn't my thing though - I like grappling more and began training in judo and shuai chiao. I'm getting ready to start BJJ, so I'll be doing bjj 4 days a week, judo 2 days a week and CMA 2 days a week. I miss MT and wish I could get back into it *sigh*...

[Shadow Dragon]

Here is another method/split I was taught.

Vertical Fist = good for punching high targets.
Horizontal Fist = good for punching low targets.

Peace.

[dragontounge2]

Originally posted by SevenStar


yes, you do pak sao ato the right. And your centerline is protected, which is when the MT cross becomes an overhand right and goes over it. Everything can counter everything.

As for him not guarding his face, what do you think his rear hand is doing? If I am throwing a cross, that shoulder will be raised guarding the chin. Even if you pak to the right, my shoulder is still in virtually the same position. also, it's only left out long enough for me to release the next punch. As for my rear hand, it was guarding the MT guy's face from the outset, and your pak on his punching hand had no effect on his rear guarding hand.

But the you counter the counter with a lop sao probably breaking or really re adjusting his neck. Then a knee cap snap kick and a leopard fist to the temple. :confused: what you think??

[SevenStar]

hmmm....I think it'd be quite hard to lop sao a good cross. How are you going to break a neck with a lop? If you try to have your other hand do something like a back fist, the MT fighters hand is in still back guarding his face, so you merely hit his hand. The MT fighter would attempt to raise his leg to defend against the snap kick. the stance requires slight bent knees, so the kick may not have too much affect even if it landed. next he'd repay your kick with a roundhouse to the side of your knee, which will hurt whether your knee is bent or not. close the distance with a cross, go into plum and unleash repeated skip knees.

[dragontounge2]

Do you know what a lop sao is? The lop would jam his hands and the sao is a hit with right hand on the neck. THatll mess him up if its done with enoungh force. So he wont really be able to counter unless he leaps for the ground. THe only thing you would have to add to the lop sao is to pak his right hand cross. Then you could kill him with a palm to the adams apple phenoix eye to wind pipe or punch bridge of the nose.

[Cipher]

Tan sou and lop sou are very different. A lop sou could be good defense against a cross, the lop sou is more of a redirecting dodge not really a block. If done right lopping leaves you more to the persons side and makes it easier to choke or strike and hold on to the other persons hand. This done while at the same time working the legs can be very confusing and hard to defend from, it happens to me a lot, it irritates me but I try to learn from it.

A hook or winging punch is a good way to approach some Wing Chuners, at least the ones who only practice the straight on offense and defense. Brake the center line and wack the side of their head or face.

Wing Chun has awsome low level kicks, I always like to add the Muay Thai kicks to my workout also, I am looking into thai classes so it should be a lot of fun.

This is not directed to anyone just a thought.

[SevenStar]

yeah, I know what a lop is. and the strike to the side of the neck may hurt some, but not kill unless you hit like a sledgehammer. And the bridge of the nose thing won't happen either. the nose won't break and stick into your brain if that's what you were thinking and and a broken nose won't kill anybody.

also, A thaiboxer fights with his chin down. unless you have **** good timing, you're not gonna catch one with a strike to the windpipe.

Not only that, but when he felt your lop, he could've paked forward and trapped your hands.

[Former castleva]

Dear Sevenstar,
I am in no way offending but I think he (Dragontongue,excuse me,may I stick into this?) meant that striking bridge of nose is an alternative and not meant to kill,for it wont.
Striking that bone in there (to skull) is not realistic,as you wisely noted.
But that area is one of basic targets and considered a good one,which means it is not one of the strongest parts (but it hurts and may bleed,which can be a mental plus.Also could be used as a set-up,or be used to demonstrate that harming one is no good,without doing too much damage.
May also permanently blind,or cause moist eyes)
Strike to side of neck may cause one to pass away,or even kill with not much trouble (I´m only supposing here,not necessarily correct) I don´t know though,how much power is needed,I only know knifehand would work.
Thanks.

[Cipher]

Thats true, it can be hard to hit some one in the throat, ecspecialy a boxer.

One thing though, WC excels in hand movements and sensitivity so it is really hard to trap them. A lop used with good foot work can set you up at a ockward(how the heck do you spell this) angle for the other person, the movements are so fast and elusive because of the nature of the tech. Foot work is another main issue for anyone I think no matter what type of style you train in.

From what I can tell from the forums you (7*) really know your stuff so I don't want to start a debate or anything like that, I just like general chat about different styles.

[dragontounge2]

There are several pressure points on the neck and also an artery I think With enough force you could really numb some body up. How could a pak tie my hands up? You forgot that I could strike the temple. You could send the nose bone to the brain if you just palm the bottom of it going up. The thai guy couldnt move his hands from the lop anyway so arm strikes are out off the question. After he gets the bridge of his nose poped Ill try to manuver an upper cut and shake him up. Then flip him on his head full force using hane goshi a judo technique which will probably knock em out cold. :p Lets C you get outta that.:)

[Merryprankster]

Anything could beat anything.

Dragon, where are you located?

[dragontounge2]

I live in NOrth CaROlina Why do you ask. And No everything cannot beat every thing.

[SevenStar]

There are several pressure points on the neck and also an artery I think With enough force you could really numb some body up.

Yeah, no doubt, but your sao would be toward my guarding hand - it would have no effect at all, and even if it was open, it's hardly a death blow without a significant impact.


How could a pak tie my hands up?

remember, I can pak straight forward - your hands would be pushed into your chest and trapped.

You forgot that I could strike the temple.

no I didn't. What you forgot is that it is difficult to hit such precise targets on a moving and resisting target.

You could send the nose bone to the brain if you just palm the bottom of it going up.

not gonna happen


The thai guy couldnt move his hands from the lop anyway so arm strikes are out off the question.

ROFL[/b}

After he gets the bridge of his nose poped Ill try to manuver an upper cut and shake him up.

[b]you gotta close the distance to do that. when you close, you are opening yourself up to numerous painful knee and elbow strikes.

Then flip him on his head full force using hane goshi a judo technique which will probably knock em out cold. :p Lets C you get outta that.:)

yeah, it's a good throw. Thank goodness for breakfalls.

[SevenStar]

Yeah, I agree with you totally cipher - footwork is a big issue. And I was just using an example when I said I'd use a pak to trap him. Although it can work, my trapping sucks, so I wouldn't bother :)

[dragontounge2]

Originally posted by SevenStar
There are several pressure points on the neck and also an artery I think With enough force you could really numb some body up.

Yeah, no doubt, but your sao would be toward my guarding hand - it would have no effect at all, and even if it was open, it's hardly a death blow without a significant impact.


How could a pak tie my hands up?

remember, I can pak straight forward - your hands would be pushed into your chest and trapped.

You forgot that I could strike the temple.

no I didn't. What you forgot is that it is difficult to hit such precise targets on a moving and resisting target.

You could send the nose bone to the brain if you just palm the bottom of it going up.

not gonna happen


The thai guy couldnt move his hands from the lop anyway so arm strikes are out off the question.

ROFL[/b}

After he gets the bridge of his nose poped Ill try to manuver an upper cut and shake him up.

[b]you gotta close the distance to do that. when you close, you are opening yourself up to numerous painful knee and elbow strikes.

Then flip him on his head full force using hane goshi a judo technique which will probably knock em out cold. :p Lets C you get outta that.:)

yeah, it's a good throw. Thank goodness for breakfalls.


Dude you would already be trapped & hit how could you pak? And I still have my main hand to block your pak even if you could.

The distance would already be closed and ill bear some minor knee hits to the leg since you could get a range of motion to hit me hard enough. When you pak sao you are right on top of the other person.

How could you break your fall?

[Merryprankster]

Dragon, what area of NC?

[dragontounge2]

WHY?

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by dragontounge2
WHY?

Inquiring minds want to know

[Kungfu boy]

Okay 1st off I disagree with you Merry Prankster...I'm pretty sure my thai could beat Ashida and Iron Kim, at the same time, blindfolded and stoned silly.

SevenStar has some valid points. We(thai fighters) do fight chin down, though sometimes we do falter in this, it is rare. As for the trapping, its someting I like as well, but not very efficant in as of yet. I would probably avoid it all together. If I could I'd just shuffle back and shake loose. Not to say this will work for sure but its worth a try. As for the shot to the knee, those really hurt man, I've ben on the recieving end. And the skipping knees are killer if they hit but are easy enough to block by just controlling the hips. But its easier said then done, right Sevenstar?

Cipher, you will love thai. Its a blast to do. Well it is after your used to the shin bruises hahaha.

Dragontoungue2, I must admit a good wing chun guy gave me a run for my money once. When you get caught up in their trapping, your kinda screwed. But that was about 8 months ago, so the story might be different now....or not, who knows. Sure wouldn't want to go fight Ip Ching to find out either hahaha!

My defense to trapping is simple, get the HELL out of dodge! When in doubt back up, then come back in and hit'em with my best shot. If their still standing, I'll have to use my super secret technique passed on to me through the generations....the dreaded.....NIKE FU!

Later Guys

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

dragon ... i think merry wants to beat you up.

or at least show you that not everything is as realistic as you think by at least having an i do this/i do that debate face to face. a meeting of minds and techniques with optional sparring.

[Merryprankster]

No, not really, unless HE would like that.

I'm more probably going to suggest that he go visit some thai boxing gyms in the area.

Heck, call me crazy, but if you want to know how something works, you go play with it.

I don't ever recall saying anything about your thaiboxing KungFu Boy...so...confused.....

[Merryprankster]

dragontounge2,

Since you live around Cary, NC, I'll suggest that you try the following gym on for size. It's in Garner, which is about 30 minutes away.

Garner Muay Thai (http://yp.bellsouth.com/sites/martialarts/index.html)

[dragontounge2]

How did you know? Why did you give me a link to a thai gym?
Garner is kinda far though. not interested in kick boxing violates alot of WC.

[Merryprankster]

I'm psychic.


Garner isn't that far away from you--it's not a bike ride, but it's not that far. You should be able to get there, no problem.

I gave you a link to a thai gym because what seven has been talking about has been thai style stuff for the most part. If you're curious about how you match up, go to the thai boxing gym and find out. Just walk in and say you've heard of, but never experienced thai boxing before, you have some training of your own, and you'd like to spar against it before making a training decision.

You will probably have to wear headgear, gloves, and shin pads, however--it is, after all, sparring, not a death match.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by dragontounge2



Dude you would already be trapped & hit how could you pak? And I still have my main hand to block your pak even if you could.

The distance would already be closed and ill bear some minor knee hits to the leg since you could get a range of motion to hit me hard enough. When you pak sao you are right on top of the other person.

How could you break your fall?

That's just laughable.....have you ever felt a muay thai knee? and you know a knee is a CLOSE RANGE technique, right? It's done from in close. same goes for elbows, headbutts, hook punches, shovel punches and the like. and I wouldn't be trapped and hit, as from the lop sao you described, all you would have hit is my guarding hand - unless the hit was so powerful that it broke my hand, penetrated, impacted my neck and mad me pass out.... :rolleyes:

[SevenStar]

Merry is right on... go visit a gym. Who cares if MT violates WC - you're only going there for experience, not to train. As an MA, you should be getting experience with as many styles as you can. Knowing how other styles operate will help you to know your own better. I don't train WC, nor do I care to, but I have friends that train it and have sparred with them. Consequently I've picked up on a number of things from it. Am I a trapping expert? he11 no, but I've experienced it and no what to expect from it. I've also learned that pak sao is a pretty handy technique. Also, through the different experiences, you'll break through all of the myths and mysticisms, like breaking your nose an pushing the bone up into your brain...

[Merryprankster]

Seven--a little OT--

Since I'm a grappler, I find that guys who are only MT trained have a very week clinch by comparison. Do you usually find this to be the case? That former grapplers tend to outdo the "regular" guys in the clinch? My kicks suck though, so I'm not claiming anything special.

Secondly, to move in, I find myself a little slow using the push kick to jam the hip to prevent the round kick. It's a technique that is successful for my friend, but I think my deeper boxing stance makes "block and advance while throwing leather" a better strategy. What do you think?

[SevenStar]

Definitely. I'm still fairly new to judo, and I get manhandled when I clinch with some of them. I think that's mainly because of athe nature of MT clinching - I'm controlling your head, but all I want to off balance you some and set you up for knee shots. The clinch is a grappler's zone - I wonder how judo fares against bjj as far as clinching goes

I use a deeper stance also, which throws the timing on my jams, not to mention my aim is usually off. If I try for the hip, I will almost always miss, so I aim for the stomach area and can pull it off then. I too prefer to just block and enter though.

[Merryprankster]

That's kind of what I was figuring about blocking and entering-- thanks.

What I meant was that my "MT clinch," seems to be better than the "MT clinch," of the regular MT guys. I was just curious.

Judo *****es BJJ in the clinch, IME.

[Kungfu boy]

Merry Prankster....it was a joke refering to anything can beat anything post.

As for crosstraining in different styles, I think its really benefical. I personally would like to try some WC but there isn't really a good school in the area. I think WC and Thai would be a good mix though. Or thai and silat etc.

Sevenstar is right on the ball with the clinching. Thai fighters just want to knee you to death. My school also does BJJ but I don't really care for ground fighting, I know I need to learn it(and I will at some point) but ya know, its just not my bag.

I'm working on my trapping a bit. I find if you can do some decent trapping then its easier to use the elbows etc. as they are executed from up close. So I guess a WC student may have an advantage here.

[Water Dragon]

At this point I would like to point out that Sevenstar kicks like a friggin' mule.

[SevenStar]

Your MT clinch is better than the MT guys' own clinches that you know? that's interesting.....I guess it makes sense though - skills transfer to other things, and as a grappler you know how to clinch anyway. You're used to driving through things also. I've noticed that a lot of non grapplers have a tendency to freeze when they meet resistance in a grappling situation. A grappler - a judo player in particular - will either drive through the resistance or simply change direction.

[dragontounge2]

Originally posted by SevenStar


That's just laughable.....have you ever felt a muay thai knee? and you know a knee is a CLOSE RANGE technique, right? It's done from in close. same goes for elbows, headbutts, hook punches, shovel punches and the like. and I wouldn't be trapped and hit, as from the lop sao you described, all you would have hit is my guarding hand - unless the hit was so powerful that it broke my hand, penetrated, impacted my neck and mad me pass out.... :rolleyes:

Ok, first thing is that lop sao you get BOTH of the hands down into your stomach chest area by using my elbo and my right arm just chops into your neck And my left is providing extra support. So I wouldnt have to brake through your arm. I would be right on top of your knee if you try to move back Ill move closer making you more off balance.

I think its a good Idea to have a sparring sesion Ill let you know how it goes.


PS- how do you guys deal with really bruised and blistered knuckles? Mine are really trashed.:confused:

[12345]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I don't think that drawing back the hand is a factor. you punch one after the other, which is fine. In MT, I will jab, then cross, then hook, then cross, then uppercut... get it? one hand is drawing back, but it's not passive because while it is drawing back, the other is striking. Chain punching offers no advantage in that manner.

Chain punching is faster because you are not drawing the hands back as far. It's like this - you may be drawing your hand back whilst the other is punching - but your punch is longer and your draw back is longer so you are firing fewer punches than chain punching. I am not saying that your MT style does not have other advantages, you mention the shoulder protecting the chin etc, but if you think you can jab, cross, hook, cross, uppercut in the time it takes to fire off 5 straight chain punches you are wrong.

Also if may find that any guard you put up is grabbed and pulled out the way by the hand that has just hit - because wc does not play by the rules of boxing. What if a wc man deflects your jab and hits simultaneously, hits your guard but clears it with the punching hand and hits with hand that deflected your jab whilst the jab is still coming back? Yeah sure you can counter anything I say with an advantage of MT and we could go on with a series of what ifs getting more and more fanciful.

[Cipher]

I think it is good to cross train when possible even just to see how other people and styles fight.

I am a Wing Chuner through and through, I'll always pratice and train hard in it, but I looked forward to learning other styles too. Like I said before the way we train, we incorporate Thai kicks and knees, WC has awsome hand and elbow strikes with trapping and controlling, also has good low level kicks. With the WC leg kicks and the MT round house it makes a nice litlle arsenal to use, simple kicks but very effective.

I would also like to get more involved with some type of grappling too. In my area there is one BJJ place and a few Judo places.

To anyone that may know, what are the main difference between BJJ and Japanese JJ? and what is the main difference between JJ and Judo? I have done some JJ but nothing official so I don't know the traditional aspects of things.

[SevenStar]

I said that it offers no major advantage - and it really does not. The chain punch is faster, but from what I have seen and felt from it, it's not so much faster that it will necessarily cause a MT guy to lose a fight.

Also whether or not there are fewer punches isn't really a huge factor either. That depends more on the power each fighter, not to mention that punches fly pretty fast, even if the hands are drawn back.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by 12345


Also if may find that any guard you put up is grabbed and pulled out the way by the hand that has just hit - because wc does not play by the rules of boxing. What if a wc man deflects your jab and hits simultaneously, hits your guard but clears it with the punching hand and hits with hand that deflected your jab whilst the jab is still coming back? Yeah sure you can counter anything I say with an advantage of MT and we could go on with a series of what ifs getting more and more fanciful.


clearing the hand that is way back by my ear? seems like that would be too slow.

Anyway, yeah, combos can go on an on infinitely. If you did this, I'd do this, etc... that wasn't the original idea of this post. Heck, I train CMA and am well aware of what WC can do, however, in the case of DT2, he has a misperception. ROFL, my debate with him has turned this thread into a style vs style debate!

[Cyborg]

Sevenstar, now you see why I stated my opinion and got out!:p

On the question of chain punching vs. Sevenstars description, I definitely go with Sevenstar. I've sparred a couple of WC'ers and find I can simply cover and take the blast on the top of the head 'cuz it ain't that powerful. It's a trade off of power for speed. IME, it just doesn't work that great. As has already been suggested you really should spar others who fight totally different than you. WC has some great theories and I enjoy learning from WC'ers. But it seems like most of them are so close minded. Bruce Lee said "box a fighter and fight a boxer" (am I gonna get flamed for mentioning that name to a WC'er)?:D
So even if you don't do other styles you should learn how they'll attack you so as to counter it.

Happy training!

[dragontounge2]

OK, I dont know what type Of wing chun practicioner you fought but let me tell you something Im new to wing chun I try to practice alot and read all the books I can get. I think im doing good. Chain punches do have power If they are properly practiced and the person who does them has some upper body strength. You can also deliver upper cut chain punches. You can get the same power as a hard hook with a centerline punch with enough training.

[SevenStar]

1. Power is relative. I'm referring to the power of their punches as pertains to me. I like pain. I take hit beautifully and shrug them off. Like WD said earlier, I hit like a mule. I'm not disputing the power of my friend's punch - I'm saying that regardless, I have more. When you look at MA, it's more of person vs. person than style vs. style. Any style has the potential to beat another style. What makes the difference is the individual training in it. You are new to MA, right? Chances are, I have way more power than you also. it's not the style's punch - it's the individual's punch.

2. A hook is not a power punch. A hard hook will drop a person, but it's not a power shot. It's the area of the jaw that it hits you in. It throws your equilibrium off, and if it's a good shot (or several shots) the room will start to spin. it's a good set up for the cross, which IS a power shot.

3. In response to your lop sao thing - you wouldn't have both of my hands. I'm not a WC person - my guard is different from yours, and my non attacking hand is back guarding my head when i punch, not holding my centerline.

4. Are you learning from a book, or are the books supplementing your instructor led training?

5. shouldn't your punching more centered around structure than upper body strength? Any schmuck with good upper body strength has the potential to punch hard, but body mechaincs are what separates a good puncher from just some joe with upper body strength.

[SevenStar]

yeah, I should've followed your lead bud! :)

[Water Dragon]

My vote goes w/ Sevenstar as well. That guy can take anything and shrug it off. I hit him hard enough in the shoulder to physically move his body about 8 inches (it was my best shot) and he just looked at me afterwards ilke "is that all you got?"

And he's big as he.ll too!!!!!!!!

[Merryprankster]

What Seven said.

I have very LITTLE striking experience. I still make beginners mistakes and still get hit a lot. The proper range is an issue for me and I'm still working on my stand-up hitting people type style.

However, let me tell you some of my observations.

1. I seem to hit hard (right only--seems the rotator cuff problems I have in my left make that a bad side for me, LOL!!!). My trainer chases me down the ring with the focus mitts to make me stick and move. I learned a trick--when I can't keep him off me through movement, I start throwing more crosses to the body. He winces and stops advancing. I do this because I can't get him to stop advancing with the jab since I can't throw it at his face! LOL :) This is through a body pad. I have yet to witness him do this with my training partners. One of my sparring partners commented on a right I threw poorly at him during a session, and I was kind of bewildered because I thought it was a crappy shot. In other words, the power I have in my right is not a product of "boxing" it's a product of ME boxing. Other people have great left hooks!

2. I can take a shot. I won't say I LIKE pain, but things that other people have complained about don't faze me much. I've taken shots that made observers wince and that have knocked others out that simply make me think "oops--I really shouldn't have gotten hit."

Since my FIGHT style (not the same as boxing) is to get in close and grapple with you, being able to take a shot is a wonderful attribute :) My boxing on the other hand.... ahhh.... let's not talk about how bad I am at that!! :) Just cause I have power in my right doesn't mean I can hit you with it LOL!!!

[dragontounge2]

Not im not new to MA but Im new to wing Chun. You might be big as he ll but there are vital spots on your body that you cant just shrug off. NO im not learning from a book Its to compliment my training.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"there are vital spots on your body that you cant just shrug off"

absolutely, but i wouldn't count on hitting them when a guy is really trying to take your head off. i'd rather aim for them and have enough power to have it hurt regardless. i consider "vital spots" luck shots. when i say don't count on them, i don't mean don't try to hit them, but i woudln't want to rely on them to win a fight.

[SevenStar]

My take on vital points:

unless you have LOTS of practice at precisely hitting them on an opposing opponent, do not attempt them.

Of course there are larger areas like knees, the solar plexus, etc. that you can hit, but when you start mentioning things that you mentioned, a hit to the temple, a phoenix eye to the windpipe and so on, these IMO should not be attempted unless you are advanced. like my example of a boxer's stance - your chances of hitting the throat is like nil. when you aim for the temple, if you miss, you still hit the head, but it's not vital then. adrenaline will usually mask pain in the groin area until after a confrontation and the list goes on.

Personally, even though I've learned vital point strikes, I don't put alot of stock in using more precise ones like those mentioned above because the chance of missing them is far too great.

[SevenStar]

By power, I'm not referring to the fact that I'm big as he11. Like I said before, put stock in body mechanics. My friend/training partner/former karate teacher is 5'6 and weighs 155 - he hits about as hard as I do...

[dragontounge2]

I know, but those certain spots are in easy access when you are trapped and get away. Pain is'nt that bad unless some body puts a chain saw to your limbs.

[fa_jing]

LMAO at this thread....
:)

Don't get too caught up with the chain punches. There's a lot more to Wing Chun than chain punching. And do remember that some people will take a punch to give a punch - better have some other weapons in your arsenal.

P.S. The boxing equivalent to chain punching is the "1-2," or "1-2-3." Same idea. Exactly the same idea.

-FJ

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by dragontounge2
I know, but those certain spots are in easy access when you are trapped and get away. Pain is'nt that bad unless some body puts a chain saw to your limbs.

Maybe...you won't have your opponent trapped forever so you have to do it hurriedly and he can still move - he would just temporarily not have his arms. He still has feet knees, a head and the ability to shuffle diagonally backwards.

[popsider]

"On the question of chain punching vs. Sevenstars description, I definitely go with Sevenstar. I've sparred a couple of WC'ers and find I can simply cover and take the blast on the top of the head 'cuz it ain't that powerful. It's a trade off of power for speed. IME, it just doesn't work that great."


You cover up and take it on top of the head?? That probably accounts for the bs you are talking.

Pops

[greendragon]

back to the punching, i think corkscrewing slows you down bigtime. stick to vertical fist. being in range is important because a punch comes from the rear foot. 7,on strike points, i have had windpipe techniques fail to work even when perfectly executed. i was warned that temple strikes often cause temporary insanity with adrenaline strength. the head in general is a poor target.

[Cyborg]

Pops, what I said is that I "can" cover up and take it on the top of the head. It is not my "go to" technique. I far prefer to stop them with low kicks or go around it. My point was simply that without putting the hip into each punch the blast doesn't hurt me. Perhaps, like 7*, I take punches better than others... this is my experience with it. If you'll take the time to prove me wrong I'd be very grateful, I'm happy to learn from anyone. What did I say that was bs?:confused:

[Cipher]

Originally posted by fa_jing
LMAO at this thread....
:)

Don't get too caught up with the chain punches. There's a lot more to Wing Chun than chain punching. And do remember that some people will take a punch to give a punch - better have some other weapons in your arsenal.

P.S. The boxing equivalent to chain punching is the "1-2," or "1-2-3." Same idea. Exactly the same idea.

-FJ

Very good point. Chain punching takes up such a small part of the full Wing Chun scope, there are many other strikes that can be done with or with out chain punching. Chain punching can be very useful if done right and if you have practiced it. A small example to think about is using it followed by a knee kick if they back up or follow it with a elbow or 2 when you close the gap, and I'm sure most of you know a explosive barage of punches that you have no idea is coming can throw you off quit a bit and all it takes is the blink of an eye to on top with a elbow in the persons face. There are too many different variables that can effect anything.

[fa_jing]

I just can't imagine doing the same technique more than three times in a row. Except for training.

-FJ