Mongolian Wrestling!!!

[friday]

Does anyone know mongolian wrestling?

Does anyone know who can teach mongolian wrestling and where are these people based in (and please don't tell me to go to Mongolia and ask them to teach me :)...

Does anyone in Australia know Mongolian wrestling? I would also be very interested in the ground fighting in Mongolian wrestling.

Does anyone know the Mongolian wrestling component in Lion's Roar?

Does anyone know where i can get more information on mongolian wrestling?

Thanks,

friday

[Former castleva]

Sounds pretty fresh to me!;)
Have you tried a search?
I did.
http://www.combatwrestling.com/innermongolianwrestling.html
http://www.shadowdragon.org.uk/meeting/naadam/wrestling.htm
http://www.un.int/mongolia/wrstlng.htm
http://www.justagwailo.com/archives/entertainment/mongolian_wrestling.php
http://www.minet.uni-jena.de/~baatarts/mwi.html

Here you are.
:)

[jon]

Hi friday
Hope your well and study is not taking up TOO much of your time ;)
Master San Da Fa teaches the internals but specialises in Bajiquan and Mongolian Wrestling. Ive also seen him demonstrate some Iron body qigung very succesfully.
Some of his older students also incorporate some Lung Ying into there curriculum.
There a great bunch of guys but im afraid i dont have the website or any contact details handy.
Still i do seem to run into them fairly often at demonstrations and events so if your interested i can get some solid details for you?

I think i have a buisness card from one of the senior students so i can proberly give you SOME details imediately.

Anyway as I say ive seen them perform and they seem very solid to me. They sometimes get out mats at demos and do free wrestling, its fun to watch.

[Taone]

I read somewhere on Shuai Chiao that they are both pretty much the same.... ie Shuai Chiao is based on the traditional Chinese and Mongolian wrestling??
True/false anyone??
Peace

[friday]

thanks jon and castleva.

the information on mongolian wrestling as a sport is quite interesting. my focus is more on the mongolian wrestling that is a martial art that encompasses ground fighting, standup grappling with no limits to where the hands can go.
i'm hoping that they have a lethal non sport side to it too that is eliminated only for sporting purposes.

Lion's Roar includes Mongolian wrestling i'm wondering how comprehensive current knowledge of the wrestling is in the style as well as whether if there are gaps studies can be pursued in Mongolia or anywhere else to cover for it.

[friday]

and hi jon,

unfortunately it has been taking up practically all my time. i have been living breathing assignments and other assessments everyday. but it should finish up soon. :)

thanks
friday

[triskellin]

hi friday, i think master san da fa has a school in surrey hills (or thereabouts) and also teaches in avalon. if you'd like their contact details i've got it handy.

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

Friday,

Does your TWC syllabus include grappling? Lion's Roar does.
There is so much variation in Tibetan systems it is as diverse a term as 'Shaolin'. Many Pai come under the designation with many completely different approaches.

You should look at Indian Kalari for the grappling roots of Si-Ji-Hao, they start with mainly dis-arming techniques as grappling and then progress from there.

Some Lion's Roar people advocate opportunistic grappling/anti-grappling as and when the situation and its flow require. Some may split the disipline into abstract elements. IME experienced people study the art as an integrated whole so 'grappling' is not abstracted out and is not 'Mongolian', Indian, 'Tibetan' or 'Chinese' as such. Its the same with kicking techniques, they are abstarctly drilled in Japanese Karate and Korean TKD but in Indian, Tibetan and most Chinese arts they are integrated.

The body will become its function, so it is better to function as a whole unit.

You will find all possible variations if you look, it will be your task then to make some personal sense of it all. That will be the hardest part...

Tao.

[Chang Style Novice]

From what little I know Boge/Boke/Bokh and Shuai Chiao are indeed closely related, both historically and technique-wise.

[friday]

hi everyone,

thanks for all your responses.

Triskellin - i would appreciate it if u could give me the details for master san da fa so i can have a look at what mongolian wrestling they do.

alot of the grappling anti-grappling i have learnt so far are mainly limited to stand up. TWC i'm sure throughout its development from the original lion's roar has incorporated mongolian wrestling, chinese wrestling, perhaps some shui jiao or wrestling techniques from other origins.

i have yet to ask my sifu's about how comprehensive our wrestling, grappling systems are in TWC. i m particularly interested in filling up any gaps (if any) i might find by going to the source. i'm quite happy with the striking system in place in TWC.

i wonder what ppl think of actually going to mongolia and learning wrestling from there - would that be pushing this martial art thingy a bit too far? ;)

Boke sounds like fun wonder if anyone in Australia teaches that etc.

other TWC, lama kung fu practitioners in Australia might be able to tell me a bit about the wrestling, grappling they have been learning.

ive also read a bit of information about the grappling, groundfighting system taught at NYKK?? (not sure if thats correct) which teaches a system that combines mongolian wrestling and russian Sambo and something shoot wrestling etc together. i was wondering whether Sifu David Ross might have some input on the limits to mongolian wrestling and what types of techniques it has.

thanks,
friday

ps pls anyone with information on mongolian wrestling or it as a component of the lama pai is welcome to talk about it in this thread. i find that there doesn't seem to be that much information on (aside from Boke) who teaches it where, etc. its limitations etc.

[friday]

since the general opinion is that mongolian wrestling and shui jiao are related martial arts and similar in techniques and style

could u tell me what the main techniques in shui jiao relate to and what are its limitations.

i remember reading an article on how it is focused mainly on throws ...is that true?

Tao yin lee - do i know u? i keep getting a feeling i either know u or someone who knows u :)

thanks

friday

[jon]

Hi Friday.
Im certainly not anytype of authority on either Shiao Chiao or Mongolian wrestling. Still my bagua does have a little SC in there.

"i wonder what ppl think of actually going to mongolia and learning wrestling from there - would that be pushing this martial art thingy a bit too far?"
* I honestly dont think you would need to go that far a field, there are only so many 'effective' ways in which to throw a human body. Im sure you could find someone over here with a fairly extensive knowledge. Its also incorporated into many other arts.

"could u tell me what the main techniques in shui jiao relate to and what are its limitations."
* Couldnt tell you the main techniques but i know the mindset, essencialy Shao Chao seeks to allow the ground to damage your opponent for you. Hence it will try to throw the opponent into the ground hard and with very little chance to succesfully escape serious injury. Its very combat orientated and different to sporting wrestling styles in that the damage to the opponent is maximised instead of minimised. Punches and kicks are also used but there primarly used to gain entry or better position to allow a throw.

"i remember reading an article on how it is focused mainly on throws ...is that true? "
* I would say thats fairly accurate, its certainly a very application driven art and i have to say honestly simply looks like a lot of fun to train in.


Anyway thats proberly not really very usefull but i thought i would drop what i know anyway.

[friday]

thanks jon
u are always a great help with information

anyway triskellin were u going to get me the contact details of that sifu who specialises in bagua and mongolian wrestling?

anyway im hoping that there are ppl out there with a load of information on the range in mongolian wrestling and shui chiao

plus other white crane ppl who practise the mongolian wrestling in white crane kung fu. do any of u have any idea of how complete etc it is? what kind of wrestling hav eu learnt? etc

anyway i ask again any contributions are welcome.

thanks

friday

[friday]

Anyway, it seems mongolian wrestling is another area where ppl either don't really know that much about, or there are not that many teachers around that teach it (esp in australia). seeing as a lot of martial arts styles have been heavily influenced by mongolian wrestling im' surprised it hasn't retained some sort of authority as a separate source of material.

who knows mayb the ppl who do this art just don't go on kfo hehe.

what ive decided to do now is to turn it into a persona research topic - hopefully there might be some books on it or something. hopefully my membership at a new forum will help me find some answers.

thanks everyone

friday

[triskellin]

yes i have the details, but your inbox is full. e-mail me at triskellin@hotmail.com

[BJJISTHEBEST]

Ive rolled with a couple of mongolian wrestling guys and they were crap why learn mongolian wrestling when you can learn bjj you loser

[friday]

haha sounds like Ralek's back or mayb his lil bro
:)
keep up the good efforts someone might turn up who knows a bit mroe about mongolian wrestling keep my thread going ok?

thanks BJJ

:)

[type01]

i didnt know there were any mongolian wrestlers in australia and if there are i bet they wouldnt be as good as the one's in mongolia

[andoi]

ok this subject is interesting but i think u shouldnt be to worried i believe there is a fair bit of stuff in tbwc that should protect u against the ground fighters ....but the **** eaters like bjjisthebest well thats a whole other story...the guy is a liar...or maybe he can share with everyone where he rolled with some mongolian wrestlers?? cos i under stand he is in sydney so he might be your best bet for info...ha
emff

[Liokault]

Jon



essencialy Shao Chao seeks to allow the ground to damage your opponent for you

:D I like that.


I remember a TV programe from last year where this suyrvival guy went to mongolia to show how to survive on your own out there. Anyway he ended up with this family group and tagged along to a big mongolian wrestling to tornument.

After he told them he had done some judo one of the younger champs offerd him a go.....and he won quite easly LOL....i dont think the mongolian guy was going easy on him eather and he looked very upset to lose to this chubby blond westener.

[Stacey]

shuai chiao and judo came from boke and/or were highly influenced by it.

The mongols took over china, chinese techniques went to japan.

And nobody gave a ****e where it was from..if it works...use it.



the chinese say that mon gu shuai chiao is more strength orientated, but that is a martial art way of saying, "were better than you are":p

[GGL]

There are different flavors of Shuai Chiao depending on the region u are in. The styles are Bei Jing (sp), Mongolian, Ten Tsien, and Pao Ting or fast wrestling. Mongolian is known for their strong and big opponents, and long grabs.. which are strong and don't let go... this can work for or against a opponent.. also do some research on chen style push hands.. I've seen some that really incorportate throws to it.. kinda kool...

peace
G

[GGL]

Stacey
I agree with you that Shuai Chiao influenced Japan's Jujitsu and the Judo, but Japan has taken a section of the art and turned it into sport oriented..Mongolian wrestling is strength oriented, but Bao Ting is technique oriented, I guess it depends on the person and the teacher... by the time it ventured into Japan.. you may say that nobody reinvents the wheel..

good input stacey

peace