Wong Shun Leung or Yip Man Wing Chun?

[londoner2001]

I am deciding on where to start wing chun and having done shaolin kung fu for 2 and a half years with wrong teacher I want to get things right this time. I am basically donw to choosing between Grandmaster Victor Kan who teaches classical wing chun or Sifu Clive Potter and Sifu Anthony Kan in St.Albans who teach wong shun leung wing chun.

I have been told that victor kan teaches toa high technical proficiency and st albans to a street fighting high level. After feeling that I was wasting my time with northern shaolin as we were not equipped for a street fight I want to train where I am going to do free sparring and lots of preparation for defending myself ina a streetfighting situation?

Do you people know of either school wihch one would you advise to go for?

[CanadianBadAss]

I don't know any thing about either.

But from my experience, sifu's who focus on the whole "realistic street fighting” type WC, usually do this to compensate for their lack of understanding. And the actual WC taught is mostly just the external applications of forms, some one punches do this and that sort of thing.

So... when you check the traditional school out it might seem kind of boring compared to the other one where they are jumping around doing push ups, sparring and what not, but I think the in the long run you'll end up with better WC at the traditional school.

However I know jack all about both schools and I could be completely off here. I'm just speaking from my own experience with "Reality Street fighting" and "traditional" WC schools.

[yuanfen]

You need to "work" before you make up your mind. What i would do if I were in your place is
1. Ask well known WSL folks in the UK about the people who are in the wsl type of school. Are they well grounded in wing chun...
in addition to the practical things. While WSL emphasized the practical he was stilla wing chun person- not a jkd person.
2. Ask other wing chun folks in your area about both schools.
3. Very important- visit both schools. See for yourself- geta sense
of both depth and applications.
Ultimately you decide.

[12345]

Good advice from those that have commented above.

Both have good reputations - both are excellent choices as far as I have heard. I have some experience of the WSL school you speak of to the extent that I have trained with one of Clive Potter's students.

You can be assured that it is a *real* wing chun school - they teach wing chun as taught by WSL (as far as that is possible). You will get into chi sao (which grows into something you would probably call sparring) relatively early compared to most traditional wing chun schools - and you will do lots of it. You will probably learn the forms themselves quicker than at V Kans school but the time it takes you to master them is largely up to you.

Note that you are learning wing chun here - if you want to get into some kind of semi or full contact sparring straight away you should look elsewhere.

[burnsypoo]

imo, the school or style isn't nearly as important as the sifu. Like it was suggested, go to both schools and speak with the instructors there, choose based on that. If you're goal is to be a good fighter, choose the sifu that you think would help bring that out of you. The style isn't really as important.

-BP-

[londoner2001]

I will not have time physically to visit both schools but I think I am going to go for the Clive Potter school the WSL method is more direct and having read extensively WSL's writings today I think he is my kinda guy! Anyone have any idea how much Clive Potters lessons cost do you get a choice of him or Anthony Kan or is it always Clive Potter who does the private tuition? Are they the best WSL school in the UK?

Thanks for your advice.

[Dave Farmer]

Hi Londoner2001

I've met Clive a few times (at Seminars held by my own Sifu) and he's a nice guy who knows his stuff.

regards

Dave F.

[Frank Exchange]

Hi Londoner

I have trained with Clive for 5 years, and have resisted jumping into this thread because any opinion I give on his teaching would obviously be biased.

But, since you seem to have decided on the WSL school, I can emerge. :)

He and Anthony have both trained in WC for over 30 years, and are the only teachers authorised by WSL to teach his method in the UK. (Nino, formerly of The Basement, has now retired to Foreign Parts :) )

I would rate their teaching extremely highly, and I have seen a lot of WC both here and abroad. They encourage a questioning attitude towards what they teach, they feel it important that you do it the WSL way not because they tell you to do it, but because it makes sense for you to do so. Clive often says that if someone can show him a more simple, direct, or efficient way to fight, he will learn it. He has not found it yet.

St.Albans classes cost £6, and are at 12-3 Saturday, and 7.30 onwards on Monday. There are no gradings, fees or otherwise, apart from a annual membership fee of something like £10-20. You get a tshirt when you join. No fancy gear, just wear what you want, trainers, shoes, shorts, jeans, whatever you feel comfortable with.

Clive handles the teaching for the St.Albans school, and his senior instructors do the schools in Brighton and Luton.

Anthony takes less of an active part in the classes these days due to health problems, but still does private lessons. Clive has a busy schedule of private lessons, which cost £25 an hour.

The teaching is relaxed and informal, because that was the way Wong used to teach in HK. There is no bowing, making the palm fist gesture, or calling Clive "sifu". As Wong used to say, we are living in the 1990s, not the 1890s!

The training starts off with the 1st form, a lot of attention is spent on the concepts behind this, rather than particular techniques. Then single hand chisao, on to rolling, simple attacks, and eventually full chisao, which leads after a lot of experience into what others would call sparring. Clive is happy to teach at the pace an individual can learn, so there is no rigid timeframe that has to be kept to. If you are a fast learner, you can take advantage of this.

The WSL way, as you no doubt know if you have read about it, emphasises directness and simplicity. It is not a defensive style, but very aggressive, as Wong believed from his Beimo experience that attack was the best defence. When you get more advanced, the chisao gets hard and fast, and you do get the occaisonal cut lip or other minor injury. Thems the breaks.

What else can I say? Oh yeah, Clive makes rubbish jokes. :) And is the only Wing Chun instructor I have ever met who can a) make a joke at his own expense, b) laugh if someone else makes a joke about him.

Its a good club to join if you like travel! Clive has encouraged the growth of several schools in Europe, and often takes students over there for weekend seminars.

A bunch of students have just come back from Barcelona, before that was Stuttgart, and Clive himself has just nipped off to San Diego for a week to see some students over there. There are also regular seminars in Lansarotti, Athens, and of course the UK.

And of course, there is the piece de resistance, our annual Hong Kong trip in November, started after the 1st Conference. 10 days of training, eating, drinking and clubbing, (and chatting up girls, for the single guys amongst us) all for the princely sum of ~£600. We had 25 go out last year, and should have more this year.

Hope this helps. If you need any more info, let me know.
Hope to see you soon. :)

[londoner2001]

Nobody could of done it better, you don't know how much I appreciate your words in your previous post. Almost everythign I wanted answered was answred in there. I have been looking for so long for a martial art that is fast efficient and gets the job done in teaching you how to fight not how to win trophies in semi contact tournaments where you spar with a five foot gap!

I was going to go to Victorn Kan who I here is £100 an hour, was the Nino you referred to Nino Bernando? I heard incredible tihngs about him his wing chun was world renowned I didn't knwo it was WSL pardon my ignorance. Do either teachers do home visits to teach wing chun I would need lesson at home until middle of July if they don't I will have to wait until then I will also try and make it to the three hour lesson on Saturdays did you mean six pounds an hour or is it for the whole three hours thats a bargain I'm so excited about starting now been looking for 3 months for the right wing chun school, I won't be able to make the trip for the next two Novembers but I would love to come at some point.

One thing wing chun is supposed to help give good health why is everyone ill at a young age Anthony Kan looks young whats up with his health and WSL sadly departed at a young age. Anyway once again thanks for oyur reply and I look forward to starting. Are you sure private lessons are £25 an hour that seems little compared to other prices I've seen!

[Frank Exchange]

The Nino I referred to was indeed Nino Bernado. Clive and Anthony used to train with him, until they got the opportunity to train with Wong himself.

At the moment neither Clive nor Anthony do home visits for private lessons, but perhaps that could be negotiated. The main problem is that of time. On Tuesday, for example, Clive's first private lesson is at 8am, and his last at 9pm. It makes sense for the students in between to come to him. The private lessons are indeed £25 an hour. It may be cheap compared to others, I dont know. Clive has often said he could charge more, but feels he would rather encourage people by providing value for money.


The lessons are £6 for the entirety, not per hour.

Anthony may look young, but I believe is similar age to Clive, around 50. Without wanting to speak for someone else, I believe that his problems stem from many years of standing up whilst running a restaurant, rather than WC training, which has affected his knees. I could be wrong, so dont quote me on that.
Clive is in the best of health, and is living proof that 30 years of Wing Chun does you no harm.

You may want to wait until he comes back from San Diego, which should be next week, or just come along to the Saturday class. It will be good to see you whenever you can make it.

Regards
Frank