att: muithai guys: help (or maybe its more of kf question)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

ok i thought you guys might be the best to ask about this. last night at class we went over a new concept out of the pukulan system which reminds me a good bit of mt. or maybe a cross between mt and kf. your up on the balls of your feet a little, close range, trying to break down the opponent with a barrage of knees, elbows, hooks, head control, and head butts. very in your face and aggresive but it has more of a flow to it than mt.

anyway, the two techniques we worked with for the concept was a saber kick (like a low thia kick to the ankle) and a knee/low kick combo. what he said to do was move your head first to get the momentum going and the body aligned before throwing the kick or knee. if you were taking an angle step your head would move that direction initially. nothing dramatic, your not trying to give your attack away, but start aligning the body for the attack right before it's thrown. this movement should bring the back heal up a little. at this point you want the back foot to "spring" up. it's not supposed to come high up off the ground or anything, just about half an inch, but he said it should feel like it springs up. from this point any kick or step can flow out naturally. he said your giving your body the momentum to power the kick for you. he said he hated using the word, but it was similar to the way tkd people chamber their kicks . .. . two seperate movements until they flow togeather naturally.

as aditional info he went on to say that the spring was giving the kicking leg life ... so that you werent draging your roots with you .. . like ****ing a gun. he also tried explaining in terms of a suction cup. when you get one edge up off the surface the rest pops right off with out effort. this would be when your attacking leg just starts to leave contact with the floor ... should pop up like a suction cup. then he made us pick up a chair only grasping one leg at the bottom using the same concept. **** near imppossible unless you put this into play.

the sad thing is that after all these explanations im still have a hard time understanding the spring part of the motion. if anyone has any fu cking clue what im talking about, and can explain it a little differant id appreciate it.

[Khun Kao Charuad]

Slow down, son! You're not making sense.

Take a deep breath, relax, and try again.

Please try to restate your question. As it is worded, it makes little or no sense. Individual parts kinda do, but all together? Big jumbled mess.

As best as I can make it, your instructor is referring to getting your back leg co(ked and ready. Meaning your weight is more on your front leg and you are up on the toes of the rear leg.

Khun Kao

[DelicateSound]

And this is sober... :D

GDA - You mean you move your upper body first, rather than pushing from your base right?

I can't say I know much here, but from your post I think that the "spring" onto the ball of the foot is to add flexibility, freedom of motion and a little momentum. Doubt there could be much power in that motion.



You'd need a Thai Boxer to explain their kicking I think :( Sorry.


It does help to get onto the balls of your feet IMUO. I always have but only for flexibility and reach puposes.


I guess it's all to do with putting your body into it. When you punch you don't just throw out an arm, you move with it right, putting the shoulders and hips in and stepping forward.

By "springing" onto the balls of your feet you take that first step and move with the blow. I guess it adds natural momentum too.





Just my .0001 $

[NorthernMantis]

Hey GDA what style do you study?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yeah, im sober, but really really out of it today. i have been exhausted since the time i managed to crawl out of bed. i think its a combanation of not drinking and the fact that i just started lifting again. ill try to make more sense out of the question tomorrow.

ds . ..

"I guess it's all to do with putting your body into it. When you punch you don't just throw out an arm, you move with it right, putting the shoulders and hips in and stepping forward."

i got this part fine from all the boxing work, but this spring thing is a little differant and im more confused than you guys are.

"By "springing" onto the balls of your feet you take that first step and move with the blow. I guess it adds natural momentum too. "

that's kinda what he said, but i'm not sure if that's all there is to it where the "spring" is concerned. maybe spring is a bad word and im making to much of it. it's with the kick where im confused. i understand that your adding momentum by moving the body with forward with the attack and that the bouncieness of the being weighted on the balls of the feet add mobility, but its this one particular part that confuses me. he said that right before launching the kick you should feel the kicking leg spring up ever so slightly . ... just about half an inch . . . and then the kick is launched. this isn't the only way the style gererates power but one of the ways i think. i dunno i need to ask about it at class again.

nm . .. wudang mainly. he also has done allot of pukulan and a bit of jujitsu amonst many other things like boxing and thai. kind of a traditional mixed martial arts place.

[SevenStar]

sounds like a kick setup to me. Example: You step out your lead leg at a slight angle. as the front foot plants and your body is aligned, you begin to pivot. your rear leg is now coming off the floor. That is probably the spring that he was referring to.the kick isn't raised and chambered like many other traditional styles, it launches from the ground.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

what you said matches exactly what we were doing on the saber kick. i guess im just thinking too much. da mn the lack of beer.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im not used to actually being able to think. i bet that's why im over doing it.

[SevenStar]

Yeah, thinking is a pain in the arse if you don't do it alot. You gotta train hard to be able to hold a consistent train of thought

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

huh?

[SevenStar]

huh what? I didn't post anything

[Serpent]

Is this where I sign up for the "Improve The Power Of Your Mind" course?

[Khun Kao Charuad]

GDA...

Ah, makes much more sense now... Honestly, I'd have to *see* it to be sure exactly what your instructor is talking about, but I think what he's referring to is you don't simply come up on your toes. As you start your kick, you push off with your foot.

The best non-MA example that I can think of is bicycling. Think about pedaling a bike. If you are pedaling correctly, you don't just step down on the pedals as though you're stair-climbing, but your leg remains involved all the way throughout the entire pedal stroke, 360 degrees. You don't want to relax your leg and take the weight off of it as the pedal returns to the top position.

So, think about the very bottom part of your stroke, just as the pedal reaches the bottom of the stroke and begins its travel back up to the top. You should be using your foot/toes of the bottom foot to help "kick" it back upwards.

The best MA example that I can think of is Boxing footwork. You mentioned earlier that you feel that you have a good grasp on the Boxing skills. So, imagine your launching a Jab and have to skip in with it. You launch yourself by springing on your feet. You do the same thing for the kick, but now the "springing" motion is focused on the kicking leg.

Now, I'm still not quite sure if I'm answering your question, but I hope this helps you out.

Kor Hi Chok Dee! (Good Luck!)

Khun Kao

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

ha . . i wouldnt say i got a good grasp of boxing skills, but a good grasp of its therory from the time i put into it. what you said makes perfect sense though . .. im gonna work on it tonight.

the only thing that still confuses me is that the spring of the back foot almost seems to detract from the power of the kick. when i watch sifu do it, it looks like it adds to it, but i can't get the hang of it yet.

[fa_jing]

GDA - I do 2 types of rear leg front thrusting kicks, same with side kick from the rear leg. One, I just open the front foot, pivoting on the heel, then pull my rear leg through and kick, sometimes pivoting a little more, this time on the ball of my base foot. The second type is similar to how you described: I push off with the rear leg, land on my front leg a few inches forward from my original position, the front foot is already opened up ( I did this in the air) and my momentum carries me through for the rear leg kick. I'd say the whole body gains momentum from this spring-off, not just the leg. Very powerful, although hard to do with balance.

Now, these are thrusting kicks, not round kicks. Don't know if that makes a difference.

-FJ