Difference between Taiji and Taiji Quan?

[KungFuGuy!]

Sorry for the stupid question, but I really don't know.
Would cross training in jeet kune do and taiji quan be a good idea? More specificaly, are there be any real conflicts between the two arts? How about between taiji quan and BJJ? A lot of the taiji posts I see seem to mention some sort of hostility or competition with BJJ.
Thanks in advance.

[Liokault]

Ok first off tai chi is taiji ect tai chi is also tai chi chuan.


If you are going to go train in tai chi at all then think about what you expect to find as some tai chi schools are vastly differant to others and all will tell you they are the real tai chi.


In my opinion most schools are not martial arts let alone tai chi.

[greendragon]

I think MOST of us use tai chi as an abreviation for tai chi chuan. those that drop the chuan(fist) officially are the flaky ones trying to eliminate the martial aspect. I say you cannot understand the postures without working the applications. that would be worse than eliminating the chi aspect. Tai chi chuan is great for augmenting other styles like JKD or BJJ. Don't be fooled by the slow motion. slowness preceeds speed. Try a front thrust kick in slow motion and you will see what i mean.

[Taijiren]

Dan Lee, one of Bruce Lee's original students, is big on Taiji. Check out his website at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~practicare/TaiChi1.html

-Alvin

[Ky-Fi]

Wuji---blurred, no extremities
Taiji---grand ultimate

Taiji is the mother of Yin and Yang---Taiji causes Wuji to discriminate into Yin and Yang. In the universe, taiji= the tao (or God, if you believe there is a personified intelligence behind it). In Taijiquan, taiji=the mind.

Anyways, Taiji is an element of Taoist philosophy, Taijiquan is the martial art. Quan=fist. But a lot of people (myself included) just refer to Taijiquan as Taiji. Tai Chi, or Tai Chi Chuan is just a different way of spelling it in English.

I don't know that much about JKD, but the Wing Chun aspect would emphasize some harder jings (techniques that relied more on muscular strength) than Taiji would---not neccesarily a problem as long as you clearly understand the theory behind both.

I also don't know much about BJJ, but I would tend to think that would be very compatible with Taiji---for somebody that knows a lot about both check out:

shenwu.com

[Naturalkilla]

Hey KungFuGuy,

I really don't see why there'd be any problem mixing JKD with Taiji. In fact, that's what you're supposed to do in JKD is go out and graft on good stuff that works, isn't it? I'm sure you can find something relevant that you can combine with your eclectic art from the internal that will improve your performance.

See ya,:D

[Walter Joyce]

I don't know enough about JKD, but if it is, as I believe, an art based on power generated by the large muscle groups, I ask, how serious are you about internal training?
If you are serious, I would say, don't cross train, you would be chasing two rabbits that go down differen rabbit holes. The theories of movement and power are antithetical.
Anyway, thats my $.02.
Good training,
Walter

[Shooter]

Hey kfg :)

Just learn Tai Chi. It's everything "JKD" tries to be...and then some. ;)

[Liokault]

Shooter.


Just learn Tai Chi. It's everything "JKD" tries to be...and then some.


This is correct. I regularly stand in news agents reading martial arts mags.

When they put up the "latest" concept from philipino martial arts or from JKD or what ever, most of the time I think to myself that its a basic thing in Tai Chi that we have been doing for years!!!!!


Just find the right club/teacher.

[KungFuGuy!]

I totally forgot that I made this thread :D

Anyways, thanks for the replies. I have another question, how does sword training in taiji work? Is it taught to be used practically? As a tool to improve unarmed forms? Please explain.

[n0rmann]

Kung Fu guy
I'm not great with the geography of Canada, but I know there's a good Chen tai chi school a little south of Toronto, I think it's Edinboro. The sifu there also teaches wing chun, but I've heard he's gotten really into Hong Chen tai chi. Liu Chengde is there giving seminars for a few months, and he's one of the best.

And, about swords, I'm sure some schools teach you how to use it if you need it, but I don't see that coming in handy walking down the street. I think you would get some wierd looks on the bus carrying a sword.

[KungFuGuy!]

Thanks for the tip, but I'm not in Toronto.

I realize the impracticality of sword fighting. I know that there is sword work done in taiji, but I'm not sure in what form.

[Kevin Wallbridge]

The weapons training in Taijiquan can translate directly into barehand work. In the Yang Chengfu line you could even say that the point of the weapons is to teach you qualities for push-hands.

The Dao is abrupt and ungraceful. A coarse and deliberate energy for an eel-like opponent.

The Jian is refined and precise. It teaches point striking and drawing-out energies, as well as small angle changes and redirections.

The spear is for power and teaches a long reaching enrgy that goes through the opponent several feet. It prepares the body for throwing/shuai-jiao.

[GLW]

Done this before...but here it goes again:

The name for the art is Taijiquan (Tai Chi Chuan - depending on the spelling you want to use).

It breaks down actually as:

Taiji
Quan

Taiji is the Grand Terminus and NOT Supreme Ultimate.

The Grand Terminus is the concept of Yin and Yang - the Taiji is the Yin Yang symbol and all it stands for.

Therefore:
Taiji is Yin and Yang - the Grand Terminus - the Grand Pivot.

Taijiquan is the martial style based upon the concepts of Yin and Yang.

[TaoBoxer]

When I was in San Antonio there were these clowns who called themselves "Tai Chi Chuh" and made a big deal about how it was peacefull and passive and not at all about fighting.

Ironically, 99% of Tai Chi Chuan schools are the same way.

I pushed with some of Gin Soon Chu's students up here..... All I can say is ****........ I was running for my life. They were really good.

Tai Chi Chuan is an amazing Martial Art, and if you have 30 years to learn how to fight, it will seve you well. JKD serves a function. You'll learn self defense, but it is limited. Taiji is endless and Supreme :)

[KungFuGuy!]

Thanks for the informative replies.
I don't know what a Jian is. I assume it means sword?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

From my own experience, and from the research i have made.. Tai Chi is a way of living, a path that chooses harmony with one's environment.. a path that finds its guidance and rules inherent in life itself.. not in the contrivances of "social order".. Tai Chi Chuan emulates that natural path in its approach to martial arts.. Tai Chi Chuan harmonizes with the martial experience as it unfolds, the "player" becomes part of the opponents process, adjusting the process with minimal effort and maximum result..

As a way of living, i find the Taoist perspective of Tai Chi to be most in harmony with my own "nature".. as a martial art the same Taoist approach to Tai Chi Chuan best serves my own "intentions"..

Cross-training, JKD, Wing Chun, etc.. are ALL products of Tao, and elements of Tai Chi (as differentiated from Tai Chi Chuan).. The wisdom is in recognizing the usefulness and harmony each contributes to the Tai Chi experience, discarding that which doesn't contribute our understanding of Tai Chi Chuan..

Again, i only offer food for thought, according to the value it has added to "my" life.. as observers, you will each assign your own values accordingly.. none of us completely right or wrong (the story is still being written)..

Be well.. (it's not about fighting.. unless it IS about fighting)..

[GLW]

Jian - sword
Dao 0 knife

There is a distinction. A sword has two edges...narrow blade sword...

a Broadsword is NOT a sword in Chinese. It has a single cutting edge so it is classified as a Dao - Knife.

Gun (Gwun or Goon pronuciation) - staff
Chiang - spear

So you have Taijiquan, Taijijian, Taijidao, Taijigun, Taijichiang, etc....

[KungFuGuy!]

Alright, I'm just going to come right out and ask it, even though it might make me appear shallow and immature.
Will I see results, quickly?
What I mean is, a year down the road, will I notice an improvement in my abilities? Will I be able to handle myself better in a confrontation?
I hear a lot about the 30 year mark, and to be quite honest, I don't want to continue at the same level for the next 29 years. I want an art that I can be dedicated to, and I can only be dedicated if I can see myself improving.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

"Will I see results, quickly?"

It is likely, with that particular perspective, that one would be blind to whatever results were acheived.. however trite, the cliche' "the journey is more important than the destination" applies appropriately to Taji.. in fact, i personally, see no destination.. just a life-long process of discovery and refinement.

That being said, whatever results one does acquire, is, by my own experience, superior to any acheived by conventional (external) Martial Arts.. "you get what you pay for", and in this case the price is dedication and time.. the result is freedom.. (and i'll leave that to the imagination of the observer)..

Be well, and be certain of what you "really" want from your Martial Arts experience..

[bob10]

-groan-

You don't always get what you pay for.

Dedication and time count for little if the method is wrong.

There's nothing wrong with quick results, as long as the result is seen as a stage along the way and not an end result.

What are "conventional" external martial arts?

Shame you are not in Toronto, there is a world-class teacher there.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

The references in the post to which you feel compelled to "groan" reflect only "my" experiences.. no offense intended, apologies offered..

True, one doesn't always "get what they pay for".. but, as always, buyer beware.. homework is essential, and.. if one finds themself in a system that doesn't feel right.. bail-out and choose again.. that's the beauty of freedom of choice.

Again, i apologize for not stating the obvious.. of course if the method is wrong the investment will yield little, but.. i wrongfully supposed that was self-evident..

"Conventional Martial Arts", are those that focus on strength, speed and a "kick butt" attitude, usually lacking in a practical grasp of the internal energies.. If my wording offends, i apologize, if the concept offends.. then, perhaps we should agree to disagree..

As for "world-class teachers".. Toronto is only one of many homes to many "world-class teachers".. i have no shame in the lineage of my choosing..

Be well.. practice sincerity and compassion, the rest will care for itself..