The WC goat stance...

[monkey man]

Apologies if this has been posted many times before...

What would you deem to be the most important factors in sitting in the WC goat stance? Do you clench your buttocks and/or thighs? When tilting the hips forward, are they tense or relaxed? How close together are the knees? Do you try and relax and sink into the stance without tensing anything at all? Do you try and focus your weight distribution to one particular area of the foot? Anything else you pay close attention to?


Thanks..

[black and blue]

I keep the feet about shoulder width apart and the knees a fist/fist and a half distance apart. Hips are forward but relaxed. Not real tension anywhere, although the stance itself seems to add some tension to the thigh/top half of leg.

I don't clench the buttocks, but I have heard something about anal contraction (!!!... yikes!!!)

Attention to anything? Well, the words "sink" and "pull" seem to come from my sifu's mouth quite often :)

Oh. When I first started training I often didn't have my hips forward. The result was a great deal of tension in the knees (which hurt like h.e.ll).

Pain. The best way to correct bad posture!

[Ish]

I think the most important thing is that it works your thighs and doesn't hurt your knees. I would also say you shouldn't tense the butt or thighs just try to stay relaxed and make sure you sink into the stance a bit. most people say to have the knees about a fist distance apart but for some people that might feel very uncomfortable or painful so don't go quite as low. I also try to have my weight on the heels but everyone has different oppinions

[monkey man]

Originally posted by black and blue

I don't clench the buttocks, but I have heard something about anal contraction (!!!... yikes!!!)


When I said 'clench the buttocks', I actually meant the principle of closing the anus (like you said - anal contraction). I've heard the analogy used that if you were to run a jug of water down the back, no water should be able to enter the anus.

[black and blue]

LOL

This whole Wing Chun thing is beginning to look more than a little suspicious. Is the anal element to protect from those pesky rear attacks?

There's this guy we train with and everytime he goes to the blind side I feel this... well, nevermind. :D

In truth, I don't know much about this anal contraction - ie. what it's purpose is. Could it be Qi related?

Maybe Rene or Joy can help.

B'Jesus... that sounds awful. No innuendo intended fellas!

[yuanfen]

In some forms of yoga and chi gung, the anus is contracted at
certain times. Takes proper instruction for running energy up wards through the spine.
But in my very considered opinion it
is NOT necessary to consciously tighten the anus in the slt and in wing chun. The little idea should not be the anus unless you are trying to keep your xxxx together.<g>. When you do the slt right - natural adjustmets will occur in different places in the hips, pelvis, tailbone and anus. If you emphasize any one area you are taking away from the whole or is it the hole?

[stuartm]

I would agree with YuanFen, unless you are going to incorporate some serious internal chi gong elements into your WC

Stuart

[black and blue]

No one knows bums like you, yuanfen :)

You speak about energy running up the spine. This description of energy route is very common in the internal systems. Can I ask where you stand on Qi in WC? Esp. in SLT.

Cheers,

Duncan

[yuanfen]

chi/qi (in Chinese pardigms), prana(in Indian), pneuma(in old Stoic Greece), boea fikcha(Creek/Native american tribal cosmology) are all analogous. Historically, Christian over reaction and fear of witchcraft suppressed the understanding of internal life forces at work. Qi is all around us and if we did not have a connection with it we would be dead.For me then-given my cultural background- it is not
a religious belief...but just understanding aspects of nature at work. For health purposes additional chi gung, pranayama etc can be very useful- if you can avoid the frauds-lots of those.
In wing chun...the proper doing of slt invoves efficient use of chi
and learning the flow without tightening up-that is enough for martial purposes and basic health. Other supplementary chi gung routines when done right can control blood pressure, help with concentration among other health benefits..

[Wingman]

In tai chi practice, we are instructed to put the tip of the tongue at the roof of the mouth and contract the anus. This has something to do with the circulation of chi. Putting the tip of the tongue at the roof of the mouth is easy. But contracting the anus is difficult and I always forget to do it during tai chi practice.

In wing chun practice, I don't contract the anus since I am not instructed to do so. However, I put the tip of my tongue at the roof of the mouth since it has become second nature to me.

[S.Teebas]

In TST linage we are taught to do this. Its more of a mental thing though, not like your griping somthing with it...but more like your bringing the connection up to your centre. And its really a specific area inside the body, because if you tence the wrong mucles around your butt, hips etc... your limit your ability of movement.

Also this affects you structure if your tence in these wrong areas, casue you get tesion stuck in that area and cant fully allow the opponents energy to flow to the ground and back up at them.
This is why alot of people get sore lower backs etc.. Kind of like a chain reaction effect.
You can test this your-self though. Have a friend try and bend you in half at the waist without the contraction on, you will most likely find that you will need to use alot of your muscles to remain upright.
Then get your friend to try and bend you in half with the contraction on. You'll probably notice that you can remain up right (ie retain your structure) without having to use as MUCH muscle...with retaing the same effect. And isn't that what WC is about anyway?...finding the easiest way to do somthing!

So in short id say that the contraction joins the upper and lower body together. Theres heaps more on this subject i could talk about but you can discover that for yourself! :)

[anerlich]

Ashtanga Yoga uses three locks to seal the breath - the throat, diaphragm, and, what seems to be everyone's favorite, the anal lock (thats a BJJ technique you don't learn until black, or is it brown? belt:D).

AS with the tongue on the palate, the anal lock in TCM allows the joining and flow of qi between governor and conception vessels.

Pavel Tsatsouline and other strength gurus advocate contracting the sphincter while performing heavy lifts, ot keep intra-abdominal pressure tight through the core. He quotes a karate master as saying that power generation invlives trying to minimise the distance between anus and umbilicus, Taken literally this is a bit much but the idea seems sound.

This thread - BIG concern - are we all a bunch of buttmeisters? Is the Wing Chun WC acronym related to the water closet WC by more than just coincidence?

As for YGKM, try to stand with the spinal and pelvic alignment correct, but minimise muscular tension, try to allow tendons and ligaments to take the weight. The thighs will start to burn after a while, but there should be little discomfort anywhere else. It should become a position of comfort and stability. The knees should come in naturally without needing to be forced in.

Unlike some (or so it seems ;) ), I am not fixated on what my anus is doing, but if I were I'd probably contract slightly on the exhalation.

Interesting isn't it how ANUS is not censored but **** is.

[yuanfen]

This thread - BIG concern - are we all a bunch of buttmeisters? Is the Wing Chun WC acronym related to the water closet WC by more than just coincidence?

((Avoiding scatology- a deep subject. Yoga has many washings.
If you learn how to close and open properly you can give yourself an enema with a big enough bowl of water and the one in the closet.))



Interesting isn't it how ANUS is not censored but **** is.

((Could be Dave is asleep at the wheel or busy with ashtanga yoga...moving from posture x to z))

[S.Teebas]

The thighs will start to burn after a while, but there should be little discomfort anywhere else.

Why do the thighs burn?

[anerlich]

Dunno, they just do.

Don't concentrate on the thighs or you will miss all the heavenly glory.:cool: (or the anus, for that matter:D )