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Darren Laur
06-07-2002, 12:32 PM
Street 101:



Acknowledgements:



In preparing this post, I have attempted to put into writing some of the information that I have gleaned over the years specific to self protection and the “way of the street” In doing so , I had the opportunity to integrate a number of ideas and concepts from others in the field. To say that all of the information in this post was totally mine, would only ignore those people who have made this work possible.

I believe that there is no such thing as the “ultimate” fighting form. Every combative system has its own set of strengths and weaknesses. I believe the secret is to recognize and acknowledge those weaknesses and then go elsewhere to strengthen them. In doing so, there are a number of people who I must thank for the content of this post. Some of the below noted instructors/coaches/teachers I know personally and have trained with, others I only known through their own published works. It is because of these people that I have been able to strengthen my weaknesses and make this post possible:


Albert Carty

Gil Puder

Tony Blauer

Bradley Steiner

Marc McYoung

Peyton Quinn

Sammy Franco

Richard Dimitri

Geoff Thompson

Jim Grover

Jerry Van Cook






Taking It To The Streets:


The Police:


First of all, I am a police officer and have some knowledge in this topic. Most people believe that the police are the first line of defense. In a perfect world this may be true, but the fact is “YOU” are going to be the first line of defense. It is a fact that most police department are far more “reactive” to crime than “proactive.” Although I would love to see a police officer on every corner, the fact remains that this will never happen. In our world, there are more criminals that there are police officers, this is why we call what we do the “thin blue line”. Police officers understand that if the criminal element was to ban together as one cohesive entity, such as what happened in the L.A. riots after the Rodney King incident, there would be little police could do to regain control in the short term.

It is also a sad fact that unlike 30-40 years ago when most of the criminal element feared the police, today most do not and only see us as an “annoyance” to their criminal activity. Most of the experienced criminals know how not to get caught as well. We in policing usually catch the inexperienced, why?, because the experienced criminals have learned from their mistakes. The next sad thing is that even if the police do catch the criminal, many are soon released.


The Courts:

Even if the criminal is caught red handed committing the crime, the next step is court and the Criminal Justice system, or should I say “The Criminal’s Justice System.” Many criminals see the justice system as an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Why?, because most, including their lawyers, know the ins and outs of the judicial jungle, especially when it comes to a legal technicality or plea bargan. The fact remains that in some countries the criminal has nothing to loose but everything to gain by going to court. In some cases the punishment from the courts, if found guilty, does not deter the criminal from continuing on with their actions. The term “let the punishment fit the crime” seldom exists, but even if convicted to jail, there is a very real chance that the criminal will only have to serve 1/3 of their sentence anyways.


Who is the Street Predator:

So who is the Street Predator? The answer is “anyone”, but the average inmate housed in the Canadian Correctional system for violent crimes is:

- male between the ages of 15-24 years

- 5’9” - 6’0” tall

- 175 – 190 lbs


Most street predators can be split up into two categories; “The Amateur” and “The Professional”


The Amateur:

The amateur is an “ego” based animal who is looking for a fight “just because.” To be preyed upon by the amateur you do not have to be doing anything wrong, you just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. This beast is usually very identifiable;

- usually walks with attitude
- elbows pushed away from body
- verbally aggressive and rude to people within a few feet
- confrontations are usually triggered by eye contact


Some of the “Ritualized” combative signs that are apparent from the amateur prior to contact, but not limited to, include:

- splaying arms to express exclamation
- beckoning with finger
- nodding of head, usually accompanies finger beckoning
- bulging eyes
- acquires innate fighting stance
- will close distance during confrontation


The Professional:

The professional street predator is someone who I like to identify as the serial mugger, serial rapist, serial killer. These beasts usually attack for profit and not because they want to fight. These animals are a little harder to identify as they merge into society quite well and usually prey upon targets that have “no” situational awareness. When the professional strikes a target they usually follow a seven step process of target acquisition:



Step #1: victim selection:

- looking for subjects with no situational awareness
- attacks usually occur in sparsely populated locations out the view of witnesses and therefore reduces the chances of being seen heard or caught

Step #2: Victim Stalking:

- Once a target has been identified the professional will usually stalk first
- They are waiting for the time and place that suits their need for privacy and control



Step #3: Victim/Predator Positioning:


- the professional must place themselves in position to either attack by surprise or engage in a “street Interview”
- remember this beast is a lazy animal and does not want to fight but totally overwhelm

The professional will usually use one of five “relative” positioning tactics to set their intended victim up for attack:

1) Closing:

- Most common, walks directly up to target to get as close as they can
- the closer they get the more success he will have in his abilities to overwhelm and control
- this is why the “reaction gap” is so important once you have identified a person as a threat. If the threat has breached the gap when you have told him not to, he has clearly announced that his intentions are not good

2) Cornering/ Trapping:

- this is the second most commonly used tactic
- will want to corner you between himself, you, and any safe exit point


3) Surprise

- Surprise is the primary tactic that an attacker depends upon for full advantage



4) Pincer:

- usually used by two or more criminals
- one circles while the other distracts you
- one attacker follows from behind and while you are focused on them, there is a second attacker just up ahead
- things to be aware of, two people standing across from one another in a narrow space such as a hallway, staircase, or alley

5) Surround:

- most common in “packs” or “swarms”
- one in the pack will distract while the others surround
- instead of a fast swarm, the pack will usually drift towards you so as not to alert you to their intentions


Step #4: Testing the Waters:

- only used if the element of surprise is not available
- here the predator will use one or more “street interviewing tactics” to see if you are a low risk high gain target


A) reasonable request interview:

- will ask you for the time, match, cigarette, spare change, directions
- as you are complying with their request, the attacker moves into a surprise attack position.
- This is a classic “distraction technique”

B) The Distant Interview:

- takes place from a distance
- attacker is assessing your body language and awareness level
- the professional uses this method regularly to identify targets of opportunity
- most criminals are in plain view but because of no “situational awareness” the intended victim fails to recognize the fact that they are there

C) The Escalating Interview:

- usually takes place in a pack situation
- starts off small but builds to the boiling point
- weapons are usually involved
- men are really bad for this because of “ego”


D) the Bully Interview:

- will say things to you such as “ what the **** are you looking at”
- the attacker hopes that by saying this to you, you will respond in kind thus giving them the reason that they were looking for to engage you either verbally and or physically
- this interview usually starts with the eye glare which then moves to the bully question which then leads to an escalating interview and then goes physical



E) the Bully Interview:

- Continual eye contact made (non-verbal challenge)
- The bully interview: what the **** are you looking at
- The approach towards you
- The bully question reiterated
- The response from you; usually a verbal challenge
- Escalating interview back and forth
- Actual physical challenge: let’s ****ing go right now
- Single syllable replies back and forth
- The actual attack; usually a hooking sucker punch
- During the last few stages prior to actual physical attack, not uncommon to have finger pointing, arm flailing, and slight one or two hand pushes. These are done as an intelligence gathering technique to ascertain your intentions and abilities to fight back

Darren Laur
06-07-2002, 12:34 PM
5) Surround:

- most common in “packs” or “swarms”
- one in the pack will distract while the others surround
- instead of a fast swarm, the pack will usually drift towards you so as not to alert you to their intentions


Step #4: Testing the Waters:

- only used if the element of surprise is not available
- here the predator will use one or more “street interviewing tactics” to see if you are a low risk high gain target


A) reasonable request interview:

- will ask you for the time, match, cigarette, spare change, directions
- as you are complying with their request, the attacker moves into a surprise attack position.
- This is a classic “distraction technique”

B) The Distant Interview:

- takes place from a distance
- attacker is assessing your body language and awareness level
- the professional uses this method regularly to identify targets of opportunity
- most criminals are in plain view but because of no “situational awareness” the intended victim fails to recognize the fact that they are there

C) The Escalating Interview:

- usually takes place in a pack situation
- starts off small but builds to the boiling point
- weapons are usually involved
- men are really bad for this because of “ego”


D) the Bully Interview:

- will say things to you such as “ what the **** are you looking at”
- the attacker hopes that by saying this to you, you will respond in kind thus giving them the reason that they were looking for to engage you either verbally and or physically
- this interview usually starts with the eye glare which then moves to the bully question which then leads to an escalating interview and then goes physical



E) the Bully Interview:

- Continual eye contact made (non-verbal challenge)
- The bully interview: what the **** are you looking at
- The approach towards you
- The bully question reiterated
- The response from you; usually a verbal challenge
- Escalating interview back and forth
- Actual physical challenge: let’s ****ing go right now
- Single syllable replies back and forth
- The actual attack; usually a hooking sucker punch
- During the last few stages prior to actual physical attack, not uncommon to have finger pointing, arm flailing, and slight one or two hand pushes. These are done as an intelligence gathering technique to ascertain your intentions and abilities to fight back




Step #5: The Assesment Stage:

- if after steps 1-4 there is a positive assessment by the professional, they will usually attack using the element of surprise. If there is a negative assessment and the victim appears to be ware of what is going on, the attacker will usually abort their attack and move onto another safe target


Step #6: Using Threats Of Violence:

- If a positive threat assessment has been made by the professional in step #5, it is usually followed by verbl threats which are sometimes aided by a weapon or an accomplice or both
- These threats are very direct and extremely violent in nature using very course language
- The professionals “goal” here is to create a state of “hyper vigilance” to cause you to go into “brain ****” mode. Why ? because the professional understands that the mind guides the body. If they can get you into brain **** mode their in control.
- It is also very common that the attacker will promise not to hurt you if you comply with their requests. Why? They don’t want you to make a scene that increases the risks of them being seen, heard, or caught.




Step #6: the Attack:

- after step #6 the professional now engages
- some of these attacks may be minimal, intended only to freeze you allowing them to take what they want. Most, however, will be frenzied and severe with onw intent, to totally disable or even kill you before you can launch an effective counter attack



Although both the amateur and professional attacker are two different beasts, both will exhibit one or more pre-assaultive signs (Ritualized Combat) that if you know what to look for are real good indicators ( warning bells) to let you know what may be happening:


Ritualized Combat Signs That An Assault May Not Be Imminent But Possible:

- head, neck, shoulders go back
- face is red, twitching, jerking
- lips pushed forward bearing teeth
- breathing is fast and shallow
- sweating
- thousand mile glare
- exaggerated movements
- finger pointing/ head pecking
- totally ignores you
- gives you excessive attention during normal conversation such as direct uninterrupted eye contact
- goes from totally uncooperative to totally cooperative
- acts stoned or drunk
- directs anger towards other items such as tables, chairs, walls


Here create distance, awareness level up.



Ritualized Combat Assault is Imminent:

- face goes from red to white
- lips tighten over teeth
- breathing is fast and shallow
- change of stance, body blades and shoulders drop
- hands closed tight into a fist ( usually autonomic)
- bobbing up and down on feet, or rocking back and forth
- target glance to your body parts
- putting head and chin down (protects eyes and airway)
- stops all movements
- dropping of their center or lowering of body
- shedding cloths ( very common)
- full sentences to one syllable reply


If you see these signs and can not walk or talk your way out, you take FIRST STRIKE and continue with compound attack.



Five tactical Advantages Of The Criminal:

Remember, most attackers have five very real advantages over most of their victims:


Advantage #1: Confidence

- will usually not attack unless he has full confidence in his abilities to win the physical encounter
- Confidence comes from ability to use the tactic of the sucker punch or the the ambush to his full advantage

Advantage #2: Experience

- Experience comes from actual street application rather than a training studio or martial arts school
- Experience comes from real lessons learned on the street. Both good and bad




Advantage #3: Competence:

- Most have one or two techniques that they have mastered to some degree
- This mastery comes from actual application in the real world
- Because of this fact, they know what works most of the time, and what does not
- Their combatives training is learned by doing under “real” street conditions


Advantage #4: Tactics:

- a criminal’s tactics are that of simplicity, the simpler it is the better it will work
- when they do physically attack, it is usually a continuous attack until the intended victim has been knocked out or grounded
- physical attacks are usually very brutal and violent
- usually the criminal uses the advantage of FIRST STRIKE



Advantage #5: Psychological:


- Most people believe that this **** will never happen to me and because of this fact when attacked, go into a state of hyper vigilance which is a huge advantage to the attacker

Darren Laur
06-07-2002, 12:35 PM
REMEMBER:

The experienced predator on the street, in most cases, has an advantage over you. Respect that !!!! he has things that many martial artists do not have. He has hit real people, in real fights under life threatening conditions many times. You are in his arena, playing his game, by his rules !!!!!!

The street predator keeps his attacks simple and direct. He masters one attack, instead of knowing 100 techniques that he can do in the air, and he knows one or two that he can really land against someone fighting back. And these techniques work in his game plan. Do not play his game; change the rules or you will loose !!!!



So Why Do Street Fights Occur:


Pride and Ego reasons are most common. Why?

- a person perceives that their ego has been challenged
- need to save face by fighting the person who they see as their challenger
- this is especially true if the person who’s ego was challenges is with a peer group/gang. It is important when dealing with groups, a challenge to one, is a challenge to all


Alcohol and Drugs:

- The number one contributing factor as to why fights occur is alcohol and or drugs
- I like to call alcohol “liquid courage”
- Both alcohol and drugs override a person’s thought process to the point where reality and fantasy are one in the same. Both remove a person’s common sense factor


Property, Body, Life:


Here the attacker could want specific things from you including:


Property:

money, wallet, credit cards, jewelry, clothing


Body:

Pride and ego assaults, Sexual Assaults, Enjoyment Of A Violent Act


Life:

Self explanatory




Real Fights Are Not Pretty:

- not choreographed like you see on T.V. or in some martial arts schools
- Most are very sloppy, fast, and gross in appearance
- Most are not back and forth occurrences. The first person who gets in the first good neutralizing blow usually wins the fight
- Even a well trained combatant’s technique will usually get very sloppy after the first or second shots are thrown
- This is why in a street fight, “functionality of technique” is far more important that “perfect technique”. If what you do is pretty and perfect but not functional, what good is it going to be in the real world


Most Street Fights Are Over Very Quickly:

- most fights are usually over within the first 5-10 seconds
- Very rare to see a street fight last longer that 10-15 seconds



Most Street Fights Are Decided By A Strike to The Head:

- most street fighters are head hunters
- they understand that the brain is the computer of the body. You knock it out and the body will follow
- this is why in a street fight you “MUST” protect your head and neck


Most Street Fights If Not Over Quickly, Can Involve Grappling And Ground Fighting:

- if the fight is not over quickly, it can end up in a grapple and then go to ground
- Why?, if a person is getting the **** pounded out of them, they will usually want to close the distance in an attempt to smother/control the punches that they are being hit with
- Once grounded, you will usually be **** kicked “curbed” by the attacker, if he is standing, and his friends if any. These kicks are usually targeted for the head and upper body.
- This is why “ballistic” ground fighting techniques are essential for getting back onto your feet as quickly as possible. Unlike the UFC we can NOT spend a lot of time on the ground
- Remember, once someone starts taking blows, they will smother and grapple to escape the flying fists. Then it goes to the ground where your opponent and/or his friends will start shinning their shoes on your head while you are rolling around. Know how to be a ballistic ground fighter get back up on your feet as quick as you can



The Multiple Opponent Factor:

- Most attackers will not attack unless they believe they have an advantage ( or is psychotic)
- Most attackers will have some kind of back up ( friends or weapons) to help them out if they find themselves in trouble
- If you fall into the trap that you are only fighting one person, you will become tunnel locked, and the next thing you will find out is someone is on your back
- Always be aware of the second or third opponent in a street fight
- MUST always be thinking multiples on the street



The Weapon Reality:

- There are more and more fights taking place where a weapon was brought to use before, during, or after the confrontation. Especially knives
- Always be aware and prepared for a weapon in a street fight at anytime




The Unwanted Friend Factor:


- most fights usually have friends and acquaintances looking on from both sides
- these friends will often attempt to separate combatants in an effort to stop the fight
- this is very dangerous to you due to the fact that as your friend is pulling you away, they are tying you up giving an advantage to your attacker
- this can take place before, during, and after a fight as well
- Although your friends may be trying to help you, unless on the same page tactically, they are in fact placing you at a disadvantage
-


The Offensive Mindset:

- more often than not, the combatant who strikes first and maintains the offensive mindset, usually win the fight
- in a street fight do not go defensive, attack the attack, go offensive, you deploy FIRST STRIKE and continue with a compound attack. If he gets the first strike in, you want to counterattack the aggressor so viciously that he realizes that now he is the one being attacked and not you
- This is not a cat and mouse game like you see in the movies, no fancy moves and then a theme song as you gaze at your fallen opponent; you have to attack like a banshee and keep on attacking until your safety is assured by the fact that your attacker has no interest in contacting you again




So there it is, my two cents, I hope you enjoyed it


Strength and Honor

Darren Laur
Integrated Street Combatives
personalprotection@shaw.ca

Black Jack
06-07-2002, 01:16 PM
Great post!

As one the main forum, thanks for such a good information. All should read it.

chingei
06-07-2002, 01:35 PM
Most Street Fights Are Over Very Quickly:

- most fights are usually over within the first 5-10 seconds
- Very rare to see a street fight last longer that 10-15 seconds


I disagree

Darren Laur
06-07-2002, 02:10 PM
Chingei:

I based a large part of my post , on my 15yrs of police experience. Do some fights last longer, "yes" , but it has been my expereince that this is a rarity.

Strength and Honor

Darren Laur

JOHNNY
06-07-2002, 02:42 PM
you should write a book instead of posting so long.:( Just playing good knowledge and welcome to the forums.
Johnny
Semper Fidelis

DelicateSound
06-08-2002, 03:53 PM
Excellent post - one of the best. :D

One thing though, I think the expression is "Dutch courage" not "liquid courage". :0

It stems from the 17th century. The Naval forced of the Netherlands, at the time superior, were mocked by the British, who claimed that their fighting spirit originated from beer.




Another piece of USELESS info..... :p






Seriously - write a book. I'm not kidding. Or ask Gene Ching if you can write an article for Kung Fu Magazine. More people should know this.

chingei
06-09-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by Darren Laur
Do some fights last longer, "yes" , but it has been my expereince that this is a rarity.



great. and my experience has brought me to a different conclusion.

Cranestyle
06-09-2002, 06:52 AM
Excellent post - Obviously a lot of thought and research behind it

omegapoint
06-10-2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by DelicateSound
Excellent post - one of the best. :D

One thing though, I think the expression is "Dutch courage" not "liquid courage". :0

It stems from the 17th century. The Naval forced of the Netherlands, at the time superior, were mocked by the British, who claimed that their fighting spirit originated from beer.




Another piece of USELESS info..... :p



Yes, it is. In America we call it "Liquid Courage". In the land of coal and no sol, you call it "Dutch Courage". One is politically correct and the other is ethnophobic, like my description of the UK.

CraneFist
06-10-2002, 06:26 AM
Great Post!! I agree with Black Jack, if haven't, you should all read it. Most of it is pretty common-sense, especially if you have grown up in the types of neighborhoods where this sort of thing happens often, although the fact that it comes from your experience as a police officer is even more valuable. I have a few friends in the force and they truly seem to have the best perspective on the realities of the street.

Cheers!

Stacey
06-10-2002, 07:09 AM
I would also like to add one thing.

Bumping. "intelligence gathering" as he put it.

I work as a bouncer and sometimes guys will lean back into me or try and bump me. I usually stay rooted, yeild and glide past them like a ghost and ignore the challenge. This seems to work the best.


Also the eyes. The more they get angry and stare the cooler and more wu chi my stare becomes, reflecting theirs without any ego. I am not timid and they can't assess me. the more they want to fight, the more relaxed I become. This is what I find to be the best in 99.9 percent of would be fights. Fights don't end on the ground, I think they end in the eyes before the fight starts.

scotty1
06-11-2002, 05:44 AM
Everyone so picky.

guohuen
06-11-2002, 06:55 AM
Tally's my experience exactly Stacey.

Can-O-Bud
06-12-2002, 02:16 AM
This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever read here. Tons of very usefu information.

It seems to me that, the more I learn about MA and REAL combat situations, the more I realise that mind training is just as important and body training (if not more).

Someone with the right mindset seems to always win the fight.

I also agree that the eyes give away a lot.

Look at Lewis and Tyson at the weekend. Before the fight all my money was on Tyson, because of his past success and reputation.

However, when I first saw him enter the arena, his eyes were twitching. He was looking around at the people in the arena, ie not focused. I'd never seen Tyson like this before.

Then Lewis came out. He had rock solid focus. Tunnel vision set on the ring. He looked relaxed and completely composed.

At that point, to me, the outcome was set.

I think that if I am ever in a real street situation I will be looking to the eyes to "read" the guy's intent.

Any of you guys got any good techniques for mind training??

wall
06-24-2002, 02:10 AM
Excellent post. It really reinforces the one lesson that we should never forget: avoidance, always. The street is a very dangerous place and there are too many variables at play to be confident of winning a confrontation: after 19 years of serious training in CMA I enjoy my skills and my practice more then ever, and yet the more I do, the more I wish I never have to use them in the streets.

Wall

Braden
06-25-2002, 07:55 AM
Good job. Keep spreading the info, it will save someone's life.

Sharp Phil
06-26-2002, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by chingei
Most Street Fights Are Over Very Quickly:

- most fights are usually over within the first 5-10 seconds
- Very rare to see a street fight last longer that 10-15 seconds


I disagree
Care to elaborate on your extensive streetfighting experience, chingei?

Sleemie
06-26-2002, 12:31 PM
To be honest, I didn't read every letter word for word, so I don't know if this was addressed. But, as in my Kung Fu training where we are taught to be relaxed with all of our movements, including the quick and hard striking movements..I think a key in a street fight is to remain as relaxed as possible because it keeps your mind and body free to be aware of and respond to your surroundings. If you get too tensed up and caught up in the moment, not only will your body not react as fluidly and quickly, you can become "brainlocked" and end up totally unaware of your surroundings. The brainlock will aslo keep those techniques that you've learned and practiced over and over from coming to the forefront of your mind and you'll revert to simply being in a survival mode of throwing senseless punches or even worse cowering in a defensive posture. Also, don't forget the knees and elbows....I think the nature of most street fights negates the effectiveness of kicking (unless you kick before the gap is closed) because you usually end up locked in a tussle, but those knees and elbows can be very valuable. Also....more things keep coming to mind...try to make every strike count. Don't go striking aimlessly...if you kick, do it to the groing or knee, if you knee, go to the groing or jaw, when you strike with your hands, go to the temple, throat, solar plexes, kidneys, groing. Grabbing is good also, grab the throat and squeeze the heck out of it, grab the doodles, grab and put a finger or two in their eyes. Keep the punches and strikes very strait, don't get in to throwing a bunch of wild circular type punches you see people throwing, throw quick, short, direct punches. The last thing....to me there are different types of fights and sometimes it's hard to gauge, other times it's easy, but in some cases the fights are fairly innocent in the sense that it's some drunk or ******* at a bar where he's just trying to prove his badness and his intention is just to show he's tougher than you, and in some cases you may even know the person, but then there's the other type of fight where you can tell the person is out to really do some damage to you, and in the latter case, don't hesitate to pick up a nearby weapon.. brick, pole, or whatever, to get whatever advantage you can and to end things as quickly as possible and do whatever damage to him as he was trying to do to you.

lotusleaf
06-28-2002, 07:05 PM
That is one of the more informative posts I have ever run across. Thanks.

old jong
06-30-2002, 04:28 PM
This exact article was posted by Ryu on the main kung fu forum months ago!...
Here! (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=11294&highlight=The+street+101)

chingei
06-30-2002, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Sharp Phil

Care to elaborate on your extensive streetfighting experience, chingei?

what would you like to know?

Sharp Phil
06-30-2002, 05:24 PM
It's a pretty simple question. Relate for us, if you would, the number of street fights in which you've been a participant. Could you describe them, tell us how they worked out, what worked for you, and so forth? You've indicated that your experience differs from Darren's; I'd like to hear how.

chingei
06-30-2002, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Sharp Phil
It's a pretty simple question. Relate for us, if you would, the number of street fights in which you've been a participant. Could you describe them, tell us how they worked out, what worked for you, and so forth? You've indicated that your experience differs from Darren's; I'd like to hear how.

Well, since I'm no longer a teenager I don't keep a running tally of the number of fights I've been in, or the number of women I've bedded. Suffice to say that one is higher than I'd like and one lower than I'd like.

Just kidding. A few dozen or so I'd guess. They majority of them have worked out in my favor. A good number simply 'ended' when the crowd intervened, or authorities arrived, or both parties simply couldn't be bothered any more. A handful worked out to my considerable disadvantage.

Every one ended up on the ground at some point. Every one lasted considerably longer than 10-15 seconds.

I've benefited quite a lot from the fact that most people become disoriented and anxious on the ground. The majority of opponents have had at least 30-50 pounds on me (some quite a lot more) and most have tended to be large drunks throwing big looping hooks.

a high threshold for pain and a slightly crazed attitude have been as useful as any particular skill in convincing folks that it ain't gonna be their day.

Of course now I'm a cultured gentleman who abhors violence and merely engages in spirited debate to settle disagreements.

or some such ****.

LEGEND
07-11-2002, 04:01 PM
Yup...CHINGEL experience is typical of how most fights end! Usually the drunk tirade attempt to kill u...and of course once it hits the ground...fellow friends or bouncers break it up!

The real dangerous ones are the one between cliques actually roused to fight. Then u have issues.

rogue
07-11-2002, 07:10 PM
Ever seen two 40 something rednecks fight over a drunk woman? That's when sh!t gets real serious.

BeiKongHui
07-12-2002, 09:12 AM
Great post! Stuff like this should be mandatory reading for any martial artist. It's amazing how all the training, street fights, etc are really no substitute for situational awareness, maturity and common sense.

ewallace
07-12-2002, 11:41 AM
in a street fight do not go defensive, attack the attack, go offensive, you deploy FIRST STRIKE and continue with a compound attack.
I think this is a very, very important point. I have never seen nor participated in a fight where the winner was passive. There was no boxing style exchange of blows. Many states have laws to determine what is or isn't excessive force. Sometimes to the effect of "if someone strikes you once, you may strike them back once. If you strike twice, you are now the agressor". So be it. You all know the famous saying...

rogue
07-12-2002, 08:56 PM
.... Better to be Big Earls b!tch than carried by six.

ewallace
07-15-2002, 06:27 AM
Better to be Big Earls b!tch than carried by six.
That's outstanding.

Dogo
07-15-2002, 06:29 PM
For anyone interested I came across a site with some video clips. One of them shows a pretty good example of a street assault. It shows two aggitated guys face to face, at some point 2 friends of one of the parties show up. They start to talk to the second party, as he turns to them you can see the first guy start to lean back, then he just unloads with an elbow. It's fast, it's brutal and it shows how quickly things can go wrong if you aren't aware and put yourself in a bad situation. It's a real player file, not sure how big it is (loads in a couple seconds with a cable modem):

http://www.fighttraining.net/Fight_clips/HUMOR/street_fight.rm