Seated Chi Sao?

[Ras-Tanu]

Is doing chi sao while seated only done at an advanced level? A friend was saying that it isn't really chi sao because you aren't developing your structure & root, there is no movement, etc. But on the other hand, I have heard that chi sao can be done in a variety of ways. I never practice chi sao seated anyway, but I just want to know...

[aelward]

When I was in Taiwan, my Sifu made us do chi sao everywhere: backed into corners, on stairwells, sitting down...

I still use sitting down chi sao as a tool now, for four occasions:

1. If a student has a lower-body injury, and can't stand in the stance (for example, someone in our class recently tore an ACL).

2. As people get more and more advanced, they unify their entire body. I think we can all agree that this is a good thing. But sometimes, they get stuck in patterns that DEPEND on footwork. We therefore put them in a situation where they have to rely soley on their hands so that maybe the can get new inspiration. It is a way of isolating one aspect, and then later reintegrating it into the whole.

3. Sometimes, advanced students don't know how to bring their level "down" to lower level students. For example, one of the guys I train with is always pushing forward with excellent body unity, to the point where he can't "just" use his hands (see above) when he is standing. When we put him with new students, he tends to overwhelm them, and they end up getting stiffer and stiffer instead of more relaxed. In these situations, we may have them sit down and practice.

4. People who are exceptionally tall or big sometimes usetheir reach or size. This is great, I think: maximizing your own characteristics. However, there will almost always be someone taller or bigger. So having these students do sitting chi-sao can "level" a playing field.

[yuanfen]

IF- a big If-the instructor is experienced enough he/she can do chi sao with a student from a variety of platforms.

[anerlich]

aelward,

good points. Personally I think you'd want to have the student develop skills in the basic stance before trying these variations.

[aelward]

Anerlich writes:
> Personally I think you'd want to have the student develop skills
> in the basic stance before trying these variations.

Yes, indeed! If they can't stand right, I'm sure as heck not going to let them sit! Everyone doing sitting chi sao has probably already done WC for a year or so; unless they are a beginner at chi sao who is working with the senior who doesn't know how to bring his level down... aforementioned case 3.

Though actually, I have this guy in a wheel chair who has expressed interest in learning... I'm still thinking about it...

[Ras-Tanu]

Some good points aelward. Thanks.

[jesper]

"Though actually, I have this guy in a wheel chair who has expressed interest in learning... I'm still thinking about it..."

If you have the time and energy to teach him, you should jump at the occasion.
It will be a very good experience, not just for him. You will also get to learn whole new aspects of your WC. Just think about the whole concept of adapting your technics to deal with his disabilities.

[Tom Kagan]

Have you considered there may be other attributes to train in ChiSao besides "your structure & root, [and] movement, etc" ?

Conversely, have you considered how you can actually train "your structure & root, [and] movement, etc" while sitting down?

My SiHing, Leo Imamura, has a student who is paraplegic. He has another student who lost a leg. Another of my SiHings has a student with one arm.

Are you sure the "friend" who was telling you these things was not you? :)

Since you "never practice chi sao seated anyway," I suggest you try it for a 6 week period. If you "just want to know", that's the only way you are really going to learn what sitting while practicing ChiSao can (or can not) do for you.

[Ras-Tanu]

Have you considered there may be other attributes to train in ChiSao besides "your structure & root, [and] movement, etc" ?
There are plenty of things I watch for (and get corrected on) when playing Chi Sao, but I didn't list them all: feeling, tryin not to be heavy, sinking my stance when my partner is using muscle, etc, etc....

I'm still new to WC (doin it for about a year now) so I still have plently to learn, correct, improve...


Conversely, have you considered how you can actually train "your structure & root, [and] movement, etc" while sitting down?
No.


Are you sure the "friend" who was telling you these things was not you?
Hahaha, my "friend" really is a friend, really he is.:)

I don't do seated chi sao becuz in class (and outside of class) we stand, so the idea of sitting never really came up. I don't have anything against sitting, & I was trying to prove the point to my friend that seated chi sao is legit. He felt that seated chi sao was an innovation in the original theories of Wing Chun & I said that I read in a few places that chi sao can be done in many ways, including a seated position.

[yuanfen]

There was that one story of a Brit. spending good money to fly to Hk to train with well known WC guy(I forget who)...the master kept doing single chi sao woth him while holdinga phone and talking with someone else all the time!! The Brit felt cheated but if he rethinks- there is a timing lesson there.