staff question

[scorp133]

I'm starting a staff form in a few weeks and I'm having trouble getting a staff. I was told to get a staff that is 6'5" (I'm 6'3") and haven't been able to find anything over 6'. So where's some good online retailers to buy a staff from, and is it possible for me to find a staff over 6' long.

[Fu-Pow]

I'm not sure what type of staff you want, but if you get a single ended staff or "rat tail" staff, (ie a waxwood spear without the point) you should have no trouble finding one that is long enough.

[GLW]

try:

http://www.fistsport.com/home.html

The length should be more than ample.

You take a longer one and cut it down. When cutting, you pay attention to whether you take the cut from the top or the bottom. If you want a thicker staff, cut to fit from the top (skinny end). For a more flexible staff, cut from the thicker end (bottom).

The length - not shorter than your head... however, for northern, if you stand with your feet together...extend your arm straight up above your head. It really should be no shorter than up to your elbow on the extended arm and not over the bend of the wrist.

Although some do use longer...

[roughnready]

you can allways practice with those thick long heavy duty mop sticks,the kind used by industrial maintenance workers. they make a great economical staff.

[scorp133]

I'm not looking for a tapered or rattail staff but if that's the only thing I can find over 6ft I'll look into them. I've went to fistsport.com but only saw waxwood stuff, isn't that too light a weight.
GLW, are you saying to buy a spear and cut it down to the length I want? As I don't see any staffs long enough to do this to.

[GLW]

First off, what style are you doing and what type of staff do you need?

There are two basic things that are referred to in English as a staff.

Gun or Gwun is one
Beng is the other.

A Beng is typically NOT tapered, about eyebrow level to just over the head. It is used often in southern fists...most notably in White Eyebrow Staff. In southern China, these would often be heavy bamboo or one of the other indiginous plants like that.

For Gun (Gwun), they were tapered. The white wax oak is VERY flexible...so you can hit pretty hard with it and it will NOT break. They can be anywhere from like pencils and really flimsy to pretty substantial.

Fist does carry these in varying lengths. You would have to talk with Nelson Chin and let him know that you wanted a long one. he will do his best to get you the length and thickness you need.

The white wax oak IS 100% traditional...only difference with the modern Wushu folks is that they use really skinny and short ones....traditional ones are thicker and really quite strong.

If you are looking for a hardwood staff, that is MUCH harder to find. Also, simply because the wood is harder does not mean it is better. For fighting, a flex in the staff is desirable. Having had both, I can tell you that a staff that does not flex is more likely to break in use...been there...have the scar on my hand to prove how much wood goes into you when you are shifting grips just as it splinters....

Do NOT buy a spear and cut the head off. The staff is the same...but you will end up paying about $20 extra for the spear head you do not want. Just talk with Nelson and get him to get you as long a one and as thick as you need.

[Fu-Pow]

Isn't the eyebrow level staff made of metal? Or are you referring to the double ended staff made of rattan? The two main staffs that we use in my system are the double ended rattan staff (ie same thickness all the way through) and the single ended waxwood staff which is made from the same wood as is used for spears. In fact staff sets that use this single ended staff can easily be converted to spear sets. But yeah, definitely don't buy a spear and just cut off the end. You can just get the staff without the spear point.. Most important thing is don't buy a japanese staff they are too heavy and lack the flex that you get in Chinese staffs.

The chinese weapons I would have in my rack (if I could afford it!!!) would be:

Rattan Double Ended Staff
Tapered Single Ended Staff
Spear
Double Broadsword Set
(from lung chuan only!!! combat steel only!!! Buy the double set and you can use one sword for single sword sets)
Butterfly knives (for southern styles only)
Tigerfork (Combat Steel head is preferrable)
Guan Do (Lung Chuan Combat steel)

[scorp133]

Our main style is Northern Shaolin Chang Chuan(Long Fist), though we do learn some forms from other styles, such as mantis. So it is a northern shaolin staff form, though I don't know anything else about it. I'm not familiar with the terms Gwun or Beng but I do know that everyone I train with uses non-tapered staffs and they are at least an inch in diameter. The length of the staff is about a fists height higher than your head. I am not allowed to get a staff of rattan or wax wood, not sure about white wax oak though, i'm looking more for a hardwood. I found one site that seems to have what I need here (http://crane-mountain.com/index.html). Unfortunately it looks farily expensive and they don't have any easy way to order from them.

[GLW]

What lineage are you doing?

With northern styles, the reference to wax wood and white wax oak is the same.

The difference between a traditional and a modern wushu staff for this is purely the thickness and weight. the wood is the same.

The modern ones tend to be VERY light and flimsy. The traditional ones can be quite substatntial out of that wood. Also, if they are fairly thick, you have to have a lot of power to flex them.

The site you listed has 'hardwood' staff. As such, you need to be aware of a couple of things.

There are slams and tips (banging the staff or hitting the ground with the tip of the staff) in many traditional northern staff sets (Gwun). Sets like Kung Wu Gwun, Bagua Gwun, and others....have some of these types of movements. If the staff is of an inflexible hardwood, these techniques will eventually splinter and break the staff. It is even worse if you go to compete or practice on a hard floor. (Saw a classmate of mine who was very proud of his very expensive hardwood staff do a northern routine and splinter it all to pieces - after I told him it was not a good idea.)

If anyone says that the white wax oak is NOT a traditional staff...the original idea was you took what you could find ...and hardwoods were not that available. People who claim this really do not know the history.

This comes from the fact that up until about 10 or 12 years ago, you could NOT get the white wax oak staff in the US. Then, the first ones that you COULD get were the wimpy modern wushu flexy ones. So, all of us traditional folks looked at them and scoffed. Then, you started to be able to get good weighted ones....and then the traditional folks began to use them and got back to the root.

[shinji]

I would be careful about buying a staff if I were you, as good staffs are hard to come by--many are too short/light to be any good for training.

Have you spoken to your instructor/senior students at your school? You should try to use the same source they did for your staff, if possible.

Barring that, I would try calling Brendan Lai's martial arts supply in San Francisco. I noticed that you are not in the bay area but Brendan Lai is very knowledgeable, very reputable and may be able to help you find what you are looking for. Perhaps they do mail order.

OTOH, I've heard that its been tough getting really long good staffs lately. That may just be in the bay area though--the last few shipments out of China have been short and light (6' or less)

Interesting that you don't use a tapered staff in your staff forms. I do Jiaomen chang chuan (islamic style long fist). We use tapered wax wood staffs -- They are fairly long and good solid weight. Wax wood staffs are great because the forms we learn require a strong flexible staff in order to perform some of the body chan si exercises.

[Radhnoti]

Someone posted earlier that Cold Steel is selling GOOD thick white waxwood staffs...though I'm not sure you can choose the thickness (everyone I've talked to says "This is just what they sent"...some were thicker, some were thinner). You can also order "quarterstaffs" of American white ash (quarter sawn, so there's no cross grain making it more resistant to cracking) of 6ft...maybe you could talk to a sales rep and get it a bit longer. Also, you can equip the quarterstaff with a steel ferrule (a cap) on both ends as an option.
Finally, they also sell rattan up to 6 ft.
Here's the website:
www.ltspecpro.com

[scorp133]

I really don't know much else about the style I'm learning. We have a little info up on the web here (http://faculty.gvsu.edu/matchets/GMKFU.HTM/Philos.html) that mentions we are under the training of Golden Mountain Kung Fu Academy. For the summer I'll be learning the staff form in our schools gymnastics room which has nicely finished hardwood floors, which we are not allowed to touch with our staffs. So that won't be a problem for now. I'll keep in mind to be careful with a hardwood staff and hitting the ground.
I had asked where some of the other students got their staffs and got the answer "off the internet", real helpful. No one else had any problems b/c I'm the only one over 6' tall, so they didn't have any trouble as they could just use a 6' staff which are easy to find.
I went out and just bought a cheap 6' hardwood staff. Now I don't have to worry about not having a staff by next thursday and can take my time looking for a nice full length staff.