What Kind of Southern Mantis is in Malaysia ?

[FIRE HAWK]

What kind of southern mantis is in Malaysia ?

[Hideous]

FIRE HAWK - What kind of southern mantis is in Malaysia ?

Poor, very, very poor. Hybrid created from intermingling of indigenous martial arts with primary techniques of SPM. Didn't work well at all and resulted in a rather mish mosh collection of techniques. Kali and Silat are frames that are much too large to be assimilated in whole or directly imposed upon SPM frames. We call the whole of SPM in Indonesia, Water Buffalo Mantis and that is not a compliment.

Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[Crimson Phoenix]

There are Hakkas in malaysia who practice pure SPM, unmixed with any silat or kuntao...however, I can't tell you what lineage (I'd bet Jook Lum, but it's just a guess). They don't advertise it and keep it strictly closed-doors. I was lucky to come across it because I was considered part of the family of someone who knew someone from the group, hence they didn't hide it too much...but I could tell most of them were quite uneasy to make a "coming-out" in front of a caucasian...but since I was with someone respected...also, they asked me to show several jings from the white crane (thanks to my friend who mentionned my training...but maybe after all it was also a reason why they didn't hide it too much).
I guess I didn't do too bad, as it seems...
But I disgress: yes, there is SPM in Malaysia (my story took place somewhere in Petaling Jaya)...good SPM? Surely. But it might prove quite hard to come across it...

[FIRE HAWK]

What about Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist in Malaysia that is part Chu Gar Southern Mantis would you say that this is southern mantis the GrandMaster is Cheong Cheng Leong ? Or could it be Jook Lum southern mantis or both Chu Gar and Jook Lum ?

[Hideous]

Crimson Phoenix - There are Hakkas in malaysia who practice pure SPM, unmixed with any silat or kuntao...however, I can't tell you what lineage (I'd bet Jook Lum, but it's just a guess).

Then how, pray tell, do you know it is pure SPM?

Crimson Phoenix - ...also, they asked me to show several jings from the white crane (thanks to my friend who mentionned my training...

And based on your White Crane experience you feel you are qualified to opine that pure SPM exists in Malaysia yet you do not know SPM well enough to recognize its lineage? A most odd mix of statements, Crimson Phoenix, and one that says you are not being very truthful.

Crimson Phoenix - … yes, there is SPM in Malaysia … good SPM? Surely. …

Yes, you claim there is pure SPM in Malaysia but you cannot discern the lineage because you do not know SPM. Yet, you also claim there is good SPM and as you have revealed your opinion of such things is based on no facts, no experience, and refers only to a Pai without a name. How shall I value your opinion, Crimson Phoenix? As I would the opinion of any other liar, not at all.

FIRE HAWK - Chuka fist is the Water Buffalo Mantis, terrible stuff, not Chu Gar Gao at all. Their ngan fong is pathetically weak.





Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[roughnready]

the most popular style in malaysia is chuka shaolin or pheonix eye fist. very deadly

[Crimson Phoenix]

Hideous, whatever, I really don't mind/care if you trust me or not...I just don't like your type of "I seen it all, there can't be anything else other than what I saw" type of answer...However, I have seen much kuntao and silat back in the days andd I still do, and I can assure you that there was none of it mixed in what I saw that day. Agreed, I am not a scholar in SPM so I can't judge the absolute quality of the SPM I saw (but it was good gong fu to me, that's all that mattered). I just mentionned that, not to prove a point, but to give Firehawk more constructive infos than "no, there is none, period" (which to me, is the first step to being wrong, but it must be my scientist's mind), and to keep minds open. Your pompous turn of phrases, Hideous, have overlooked too quick my word: Is there good SPM in Malaysia? SURELY...I didn't say YES, i said SURELY. There is the big difference between you and me: you think you seen it all, I just keep my options open because no one can see it all.
I doubt you have time/energy to waste here making up stories of what you saw and who you know or whatever...I don't, and I don't see the point anyway...if you don't trust that I saw what I saw, fine...it's not like it's going to hurt my feelings or something...call me a liar if you want, it won't trouble my sleep much tonight...
Thank GOD all hakkas are not as scornful of other arts than many SPM practicionners here.
You SPM guys are, in this forum at least, the most scornful guys I saw around. Except a few honest individuals, eveything is **** beside what you know and do.
Try to be more constructive for a while...

Anyway, Firehawk, I actually had planned to go to Penang to pay a visit to Cheong and then Pong Chye Kim, but I had to cancel my trip...can't help you much more on phoenix eye fist...feel free to trust me or not on the SPM. I have nothing to gain or promote in this post, I just wanted to give you insights and directions for research.

[Hideous]

Roughnready - the most popular style in malaysia is chuka shaolin or pheonix eye fist. very deadly

Oh my, my, my, another magazine scanning, Internet search engine drive expert. Seems you also spoke with great authority on the Tibet Forum link. Apparently, you fancy yourself to be a valid authority on many things, inclusive of Malaysia. Just for your information, Malaysia is a predominantly Muslim country as it has been since approximately C.E. 674. The prevailing as well as dominant martial arts systems are from Kali and Silat, not that horrid and pathetic Water Buffalo Chuka Mantis. There might be a magazine article somewhere that you can plagiarize in an attempt to reconstitute you pseudo-expert forum persona.













Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[Hideous]

Crimson Phoenix - Hideous, whatever, I really don't mind/care if you trust me or not...

Trust has nothing to do with it, you spoke out of turn and I called you on your nonsense, end of story.

Crimson Phoenix - I just don't like your type of "I seen it all, there can't be anything else other than what I saw" type of answer...

I never said any such thing and you are the one speaking about things which you, by your own admission, know nothing.

Crimson Phoenix - However, I have seen much kuntao and silat back in the days andd I still do, and I can assure you that there was none of it mixed in what I saw that day.

Back in what days? Who is your teacher? If you know kuntao, kali and silat then you are able to speak with authority as to whether or not it was present in the SPM you saw.

Crimson Phoenix - Agreed, I am not a scholar in SPM so I can't judge the absolute quality of the SPM I saw (but it was good gong fu to me, that's all that mattered).

A shift in perspective, and agreed on all points.

Crimson Phoenix - I just mentionned that, not to prove a point, but to give Firehawk more constructive infos than "no, there is none, period" (which to me, is the first step to being wrong, but it must be my scientist's mind), and to keep minds open.

Scientists are notorious for having little in the way of an open mind. Do you not know how your experimental models are constructed, my scientist friend?

Crimson Phoenix - Your pompous turn of phrases, Hideous, have overlooked too quick my word: Is there good SPM in Malaysia? SURELY...I didn't say YES, i said SURELY.

Surely – adj. Impossible to doubt. Webster’s II New Riverside Dictionary. Reads like YES or an answer in the affirmative to me, my mad scientist friend.

Crimson Phoenix - There is the big difference between you and me: you think you seen it all, I just keep my options open because no one can see it all.

Keep your day job my mad scientist friend, you failed utterly as a clairvoyant

Crimson Phoenix - ...if you don't trust that I saw what I saw, fine...

Again, it is a matter of establishing your level of expertise that qualifies and quantifies your judgements of whether or not pure SPM was present. It is not a personal matter and please keep to your scientific decorum.

Crimson Phoenix - Thank GOD all hakkas are not as scornful of other arts than many SPM practicionners here.

Agreed my scientist friend, agreed. However, many Hakka are totally disdainful of any not Hakka.


Crimson Phoenix - You SPM guys are, in this forum at least, the most scornful guys I saw around. Except a few honest individuals, eveything is **** beside what you know and do.

Agreed on all points. For reasons unknown SPM has become a magnet for rather scornful, emotionally crippled, mentally defective people. Far more cult than martial art. It wasn’t always that way, I assure you. The last 20 years have seen the birth of a strange and not at all welcomed SPM creature. Unable to fight, hiding behind myths of old and tales told by the Elders, sun dar absorbed, simply terrible state of affairs. A purge is in order with copious amounts of blood being spilled as that is the only solution to the abysmal situation we find today.














Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[Crimson Phoenix]

You know, in french "surely" means it's probably sure...but not sure...so maybe you did perceive a certainty where I was mentionning a probability. And you're a little too quick to judge scientists close-minded (even if for too many you're right)...some realize the more they know, the less they know, and are indeed very open minded (you can't make discoveries if you stay in certainties). But you can still call me mad scientist though heheheh
Anyway...about kuntao or silat, I wouldn't say I'm an authority (I'm not an authority in anything!). But I have seen quite a bunch (specially silat on the east coast of Malaysia, and thanks to two frieds who have a quite high level in 2-3 silat styles here in France), so I'm feeling confident to say there were none mixed.
As for your comment on Hakka, I'm very much aware of it...most chinese disdain hakkas, and hakkas disdain non-hakkas...it's too bad...I personally prize my hakka friends, almost family, since they are a proud, strong people who do not let any of your mistakes pass. The trust is hard to establish, but once it is, at least you know it's solid and can count on it (unless you screw it up, then you are handled the bill immediately, which is good).
Your words on what's going on in the SPM world are harsh...but I guess you're right...it seems filled (at least in the SPM pais in the "western world") with many individuals who talk more than prove and seem to live in the legends of back in the days, forgetting that they'd better try to live their own...ahhhh well, you know better than me on this one...I don't know if blood wil be necessary, but definitely good bruises...indeed, it seems that when things have reached that state, there can only be place for severe measures...

[Hideous]

Yes, CP, I too find the Hakka a difficult people to make inroads with but once accepted they are a wonderfully and refreshingly honest.

As for scientist, as that is your chosen profession I will leave it alone. Although I sometimes slip and take a cheap shot at someone I try not to do so.

SPM is just as bad in Hong Kong and in Europe as well. It is a generational defect, deeply ingrained, and very pervasive.

Bruises, publicized gong sau and the like will not correct this defect. Those directly involved in the manufacturing of what we see today have a heavy financial investment in maintaining the status quo. They are going to have to bleed and bleed a lot before they become clear on the message and leave.

In truth, the above will most likely not happen. Not enough of us almost old guys around who really have the desire to go this route. Therefore, SPM will continue in its present form and it is my opinion that the hand is dying.

Compared to TCMA considered by most to be robust, such as Choy Li Fut, Wing Chun, Hung Gar, Bagua, Hsing-I and such, SPM is at best a very small Pai. Perhaps insignificant is the proper word. Secrets comes with a very steep price and the price is that over time the hand is reduced to nothing much above blood family art. Entropy prevails does it not my scientist friend?

I am saddened by the realization that in its dying days SPM is best known as the secret Hakka hand with a bunch of manically insane ranters, ravers, culties and fools as its followers. So it goes and in the grand scheme of things none of us matter all that much. I suppose dying with simple dignity is the best one can hope for.



Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[sungzu]

Malaysian food is top notch! Gotta try their pea**** with special sauce!