To Hideous

[FIRE HAWK]

You said that Chuka Shaolin is this water Buffalo southern mantis style you said that southern mantis in Malaysia and Indeoneasia is called water Buffalo southern mantis you also said that this style is a mixture of mainly southern mantis techniques and other styles what southern mantis styles is Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist and the water Buffalo mantis have in them what southern mantis styles did these arts take techniques from Jook Lum,Chu Gar ,Chow Gar,Iron Ox Southern Mantis. and what are the names of the Silat and Kali styles that are in Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist and the water Buffalo southern mantis . I find it hard to believe that Master Lee Siong Pheow the Master who brought Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist to Malaysia in 1936 from Kwangtung Canton Province China would mix his art Chuka Shaolin with other arts like Silat and Kali the man was very strict and only taught the Hakka people his art from what i found there are two types of Chu Gar Southern Mantis Chuka Shaolin is called Jyu Ga,Chuka,Zhu Jia,Hukka,and Chu Gar Chong Gar Chuan wich means Chus Family middle Range, Hong Kong and Mainland China Chu Gar is called Chyu Ga,Chu Gar,Chuka ,Zhu Jia, Chuka Shaolin is a different kind of Chu Gar Southern mantis .I sent the first Chuka Shaolin book to a Chow Gar Sifu in Britan and he had connections with the Chu Gar mantis people in Hong Kong and he took the book with him to Hong Kong and showed it to the Chu Gar sifus in Hong Kong and they said that the hand work in Chuka Shaolin is from Chu Gar Southern Mantis they also said they have connections with Chu Gar Southern Mantis Sifus in Malaysia and last year i emailed a sifu from Malaysia and they said that the Grand master of Chu Gar Mantis came there from Hong Kong last year to visit students and sifus under him this Chu Gar Grandmaster brought Chu Gar Southern mantis to Malaysia also there was a training brother of Chu gar Grandmaster Lao Sui who brought Chu Gar mantis to Malaysia in the 1930 s this master died in 1960 or 1961 Chuka Shaolins Grandmaster Lee Siong Pheow died in 1960 or 1961. I dont think that Lee Siong Pheow would have mixed his art with Silat or Kali like i said he was very strict and kept his art pure of these styles like Silat or Kali he was traditional but i do believe that Chuka Shaolin Has Fukien arts in it like some say Fukien White Crane in Chuka Shaolin if you look at its forms it has alot of Dragon and Tiger in it Chuka Shaolin should be a mixture of Chu Gar Southern Mantis and other arts from Fukien Province this could be called Fukien Chu Gar Southern Mantis or Kun Tao Southern Mantis . But there is a direct line of Chu Gar Southern Mantis that was brought to Malaysia by a Chu Gar Grandmaster from Hong Kong and he still goes to Malysia even today. Also Chuka Shaolin also looks like the Hakka Unicorn kung Fu style not the Unicorn Dance but the Hakka Unicorn Kung Fu style wich i have a video tape on it.

[FIRE HAWK]

There was also someone that told me that Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist was a old version of Chu Gar Gao .

[Hideous]

Fire Hawk -

Name the Grandmaster of Chu Gar from HK that you cite to as the source of your information.

Water Buffalo is a derogatory term and not the name of the hand. Have you ever seen a water buffalo move, Fire Hawk? Slow, ponderous, lacking any sense of grace.

First you say the deceased lineage holder for Chuka Fist would not mix any arts from Kali or Silat into his sacred Chuka Fist. Do you have any idea whatsoever as to what the Fountain Head or Mother Hand of Chu Gar is? If not, ask your Sifu, if you do, please do not post the answer. Only indicate that you know the answer and I’ll leave your stated position alone.

Then you go on to list several hands common to the Canton region as being present in Chuka Fist. Please spare me from having to hear the lame position that Chuka Fist is anything more than a Heinz 57 Sauce system confined primarily to a Island country.

I know where your information came from and your sources are so riddled with intentional Hakka manufactured misperceptions as to be useless as sources of real scholarship. What you have read is the public persona, completely manufactured, and for mass consumption only. Secrets as you well know …

Your take on 2 schools of Chu Gar is completely wrong. There is only one Chu Gar hand and it is known by some as Chu Gar Gao. I could not care less what some defective Chow Gar Sifu in Europe holds as the truth of the matter. I know the hand of which you speak and it is nonsense, fatally wooden, kuen expanded to the point of ridiculous, and simply sucks.

Chow Gar and Chu Gar are not one and the same Hakka hand. The story about how the Chow Gar name came into being is just that and nothing more, a story.

As you well know, authentic Chu Gar Gao is very rare and hardly ever made available to guilos.

Good to hear that an authentic Chu Gar Pai has been instilled in Malaysia and is active. Thank you most kindly for the information as I did not know that. Perhaps the hand will survive if the seeds are being planted as you have so indicated, very good news indeed, thank you.









Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[FIRE HAWK]

You said this ,Hybrid created from intermingling of indigenous martial arts with primary techniques of SPM. This you said about the Water Buffalo Mantis wich you said is also Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist the question is if Chuka Shaolin and the Water Buffalo Mantis style took primary techniques from other Southern Mantis styles which other Southern Mantis styles did they take them from Chu Gar , Jook Lum , Iron Ox Southern Mantis ? I have a video tape of a style called Hakka Blue Southern Mantis from Indonesia which i believe is the Water Buffalo Mantis style this style on the video tape does not look like Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist the Grandmaster of Hakka Blue Southern Mantis is named Grandmaster Wong . As far as the Chow Gar sifu that took the Chuka Shaolin Book to Hong Kong he is not the one that said that Chuka Shaolin was Chu Gar Southern Mantis it was the Chu Gar Grandmasters and sifu s in Hong Kong that said that Chuka Shaolin Hand and punching techniques come from Chu Gar Southern Mantis these same Chu Gar Grandmasters and sifus also said they had connections to the Chu Gar Southern Mantis That is in Malaysia. As far as Hong Kong Chu Gar Southern mantis being in Malaysia i emailed a Hung Gar sifu in Pannang Malaysia in 2000 or 2001 and he said that the Grandmaster of Chu Gar Southern Mantis came from Hong Kong to visit his students i do not remember the name of this Grandmaster but he brought Hong Kong Chu Gar Southern Mantis to Malaysia .

[Hideous]

FIRE HAWK - You said this ,Hybrid created from intermingling of indigenous martial arts with primary techniques of SPM.
Affirmative and I stand by my previous statement.
FIRE HAWK - This you said about the Water Buffalo Mantis wich you said is also Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist …
Let me be more clear on this matter. [Water Buffalo] is an inside joke, a put down, a slam, a form of dissing and NOT a valid alter name of Chuka Fist.
FIRE HAWK - the question is … which other Southern Mantis styles did they take them from Chu Gar , Jook Lum , Iron Ox Southern Mantis?
The answer is if you know the real history behind the SPM hands you list then you have no need to ask the question. Time lines alone provide the answer and you have an accurate time line on Chuka Fist.
FIRE HAWK - I have a video tape of a style called Hakka Blue Southern Mantis from Indonesia …
I know the video and where you obtained it. You note Indonesia and thus you should be able to discern the Mother Hand of certain SPM lines although it will take you a bit of effort to uncover it.
FIRE HAWK - … Grandmaster of Hakka Blue Southern Mantis is named Grandmaster Wong .
Thanks, can you provide me a complete name? Send it via PM if you don’t want to put it out over the Internet.
FIRE HAWK - … it was the Chu Gar Grandmasters and sifu s in Hong Kong that said that Chuka Shaolin Hand and punching techniques come from Chu Gar Southern Mantis …
As you are so very well informed you should have no problem providing with a name or two of these Chu Gar Sifu, and the names would be what? For that matter, why not state your personal association with, and relationship to, these Chu Gar Sifu?
FIRE HAWK - … i emailed a Hung Gar sifu in Pannang Malaysia in 2000 or 2001 …
I have seen and touched hands with Hung Gar from Malaysia, they suck and what they have is not HK nor Toisan Hung Gar. What they have is trash.
It’s been somewhat interesting FIRE HAWK but I am finished with this thread.
If you ever get beyond the collecting of video tapes and wish to see and feel authentic SPM send me a PM and perhaps it can be arranged that you visit me.
























Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[sungzu]

Whats a water buffalo?

[redfist]

water buffalo is an anaolgy which refers to someone who uses lik,external or muscular strength as their main source of power combined with momentum,
as opposed to generating ging or tendon power,which is springy(internal) and yet stable at the same time.


hideous,
firehawk gets all his info from the internet.

[Hideous]

Redfist - hideous, firehawk gets all his info from the internet.

I am very sorry to learn this. So much misinformation, so precious few pearls. I feel the person should really invest the time to find a Sifu and not be misled by Internet posts, would not you agree?

Please forgive my spelling as I do it mostly phonetically.

Nei gee mgeedo hung mei kuen, ah?






















Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.