Flaming mad: arrogance and CMA - hellified rant

[SevenStar]

People are always talking about arrogance and bjj/mma - especially alot of CMA. I have some CMA acquaintances who just p1ssed me off to no end. They are always trying to downplay bjj,. yet their grappling is laughable. I recently began training at a bjj school that has 3 purple belts, one of which was a NATIONALLY RANKED judo player before he began bjj, and the other 2 have fought in events like dangerzone, and one was invited to PRIDE!!! he didn't fight because his opponent wouldn't sign, but he was invited. Another won in an open weight tourney thrown by Royce. These CMA seem to think that in a few MONTHS of constant grappling that they can be at the same level as these bjj guys, as "there's no real skill in it" WTF??!??! Sure, they've won LOCAL forms and point tourneys, but they have never fought full contact, and never won a grappling tourney. He1l, one has never even ENTERED a grappling tourney, but yet in a few short months he will be able to compete with these *PROFESSIONAL* level fighters??!??!?! This p1sses me off to no end, and I train in a CMA = the BJJ guys are so down to earth and are actually interested in kung fu and what we do.

Oh yeah, what really p1ssed me off is that one of them had the nerve to say that boxers do nothing more than stand there and slug each other....

[Water Dragon]

So you basically met a bunch of people who box a lot with their mouths, but not with their hands I'm guessing.

One thing I'm beginning to figure out is:Those who fight are interested in anything that works, no matter the source. If you can clean someone's clock, they respect that and the art that did it.

Those who don't respect other arts have not fought. They may convince themselves otherwise, but that's in their own little world.

Respecting an art does not mean you have to train in it. I respect the He!! out of Muay Thai Boxing, Judo, and Southern Mantis, but have never, nor plan to train in it.

[Royal Dragon]

Nothing I hate more than arrogant CMA's, except maybe arrogant BJJ's

[Merryprankster]

Yup Seven--that's about it. If the arrogance of BJJ and MMA is tough guy talk, then the arrogance of CMA is elitist snobbery.

[rogue]

I've always gotten the feeling that many who say they'd do X against Y by BJJ/boxer/TKD/etc fighter just haven't ever sparred live. I was reading on the mantis forum about what someone would do against a MT clinch and really doubt they've ever even sparred a MT fighter much less fight one. Then again I've seen the same thing in other arts as well.

I wonder if it has anything to do with how hard one trains and spars. I don't train as hard as many but I know what can hurt me and what I can do to hurt someone else from experience gained in sparring.

[Le nOObi]

is snobbery a word?

[MonkeySlap Too]

I find the best solution is to invite people on the floor. Often the two biggest stumbling blocks in MA are preconceptions and ego. Ego gets beat out of you real fast, if you test yourself.

Being one of those guys who trys to stay familiar with the ground game, but not really training it, I can tell you, anybody who doesn't respect it hasn't fought someone good at it. It's a bloody chore.

But ego rears up - people forget that losing to learn is okay in the training hall. It prevents fatal errors in the street.

Hm, I'm tired, is this making any sense?

um, what Water Dragon said...

[Merryprankster]

MonkeySlap Too--

Yes--you're saying invest in loss. Ego must be checked at the door, because you WILL lose. It will happen. If it doesn't, you're not challenging yourself. If you're not challenging yourself, you'll never get better.

Ahh----good old "king of the kwoon," syndrome.... :)

Happens in every school that encourages ego problems....

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"If the arrogance of BJJ and MMA is tough guy talk, then the arrogance of CMA is elitist snobbery."

[TjD]

>Nothing I hate more than arrogant CMA's, except maybe arrogant BJJ's



im sorry but arrogant MMA'ers **** me off the most; at least the arrogant CMAs and BJJs let themselves learn a single style which they think is the best


arrogant MMAers run around thinking whatever the hell theyre doing is the best, and never learn a **** thing

nothing aggravates me more than the guys who come in to our kwoon for a month or two, list off the 30 other styles theyve taken for a month, and never bother to learn a **** thing; and probably never have

then they leave take another style and say how they now know wing chun


sigh
people need to empty their **** cup

travis

[guohuen]

No no no my friends. That is all kindergarten arrogance and snobbery. Check out a CIA trained chef for the real stuff.

[dre]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Yup Seven--that's about it. If the arrogance of BJJ and MMA is tough guy talk, then the arrogance of CMA is elitist snobbery.

The Merry is correct. I think BJJ people are way worse (BTW - I'm taking bJJ this summer - I've already had my first lesson) as far as manors goes though.

[dre]

Originally posted by SevenStar
This p1sses me off to no end, and I train in a CMA = the BJJ guys are so down to earth and are actually interested in kung fu and what we do.

Err.. . Sorry to burst you bubble , but they think what you do is crap. Sorry. They are intersted in it (if they are) becuase they think it's funney.

Oh yeah, what really p1ssed me off is that one of them had the nerve to say that boxers do nothing more than stand there and slug each other....

They don't? We don't? Who dosen't?

[SevenStar]

Who posted that reply you quoted? It musta been deleted

[Shaolindynasty]

heh It's funny cause the people I find who are usually the most open minded about learning new things come from japanese styles(not always but most of the time). Allot of CMA, BJJ, MMA and JKD guys think their way is the best and have allot of ego. They also always claim to know the weaknesses of the others and how to beat them.

[DelicateSound]

I find that too SD. Maybe it's because Japanese arts seem to have their individual places.

Judo guys respect JJ guys as they know that the arts are relates but with diff. purposes. Aikido too.Karate stylists can be a bit "my Shotokan beats your Wado-Ryu" but its all the same animal there really.

Or maybe CMA sees BJJ as the common enemy. Who knows. You just do what you like. I respect BJJ, but I'm not too keen really on newaza so I don't like to do it, you know.

[Shaolindynasty]

I do CMA but i like all martial arts. I have an interest in allot of different methods. It just so happens I really only have time/energy to devot to one (or actually 2 longfist and CLF). I have grappled before and it is a very demanding art, I don't see how people get attitudes like the one sevenstar deiscribed but I used to be kinda like that. Boxing is just a slugfest, MMA is just brawling etc. I guess with time in the martial arts you see that the different arts may be externally different all martial arts serve the same purpose.

As a side note if I didn't train CMA I'd probally be training karate and Jujitsu.

[Dark Knight]

Im going to have to agree, I have seen more CMA that think everything else is crap because they are not from master one hung low from 2 thousand years ago.

The BJJ people I met want you to come down and learn it so they have someone else to play with.

But I have seen this additude in other styles also, the TKD people want to say they are the greatest and one hasnt won at UFC because they havent kicked full power, the ninja guys are too deadly...


But the common thing I see is none will go down and learn something else "I have nothing to prove I know my style works" instead of haveing enough humility to go over to the school and open their minds.

[Shaolindynasty]

When ever I train with sombody else from a different style i always do their style with them. People assume it's because I don't know anything but it's because I know allot(hehe) about learning more. If I restirct myself to my veiwpoint I'll never grow. To tell you the truth it's the hardest part of training, get rid of the ego and act like a complete beginner. I don't learn other people's complete styles really but i do pick up different mthods that enhance the way I think about my system. I reached instructor level in longfist then found another place to train and became a beginner again(at straightblast5's school).

Oh and by the way i consider myself traditional CMA.

[Volcano Admim]

Well you oboviusly dont know what you talking about...
So i come and i bring the reality so you see who is bad, and you see youre wrong.

http://www.shownopity.com/index.shtml
http://www.shownopity.com/videos/RalphAndBobbyFightNEW.htm

[DelicateSound]

Hilarious.

[dre]

Originally posted by SevenStar
Who posted that reply you quoted? It musta been deleted

I did, I just skrewed it up and put it inside.

[Ryu]

"Maybe it's because Japanese arts seem to have their individual places. "

:D I can make a funny joke here about the Japanese, but I'm not gonna! :D


I really think it just comes down to how hard you've trained, and how much you've pushed yourself. I consider myself pretty good on the ground, but I have had better grapplers just school me. No shame in that. If you don't work with better people you can't improve. (Though that doesn't mean you can't enjoy schooling someone else :D just kidding...)
Seriously though, being arrogant is the number one downfall of a fighter. If I am going to fight someone, I'm going to treat him like he's a tough fighter (unless I without a doubt find out he's not)

I don't believe for a second that there's not karate of KF guys out there that could drop me if I wasn't careful. Me saying "Well I'll just clinch em" is just as stupid IMHO. I better have a good clinch, you know?

Ryu

[DelicateSound]

That's why we love you Ryu - you make BJJ look useless all by yourself :D

[j/k] :eek: :cool:

[Ryu]

Also what's funny is that in a real fight, even the world's greatest grapplers can't stop themselves from doing what almost ALWAYS happens in real self-defense. Tought talk, the encroachment, the stare down, the sucker punch. :D

Ryu

[DelicateSound]

No matter what style you take in the dojo, on the street it's all Muppet Kickboxing :D


Ryu - Check out the 90% thread - some slandering of your Greek-American ass over there dude!:eek:


I watched your back, but only 'cause I'm getting the services* of some Japanese hottie. :)











*Man do I wish it was THOSE services :D :p

[rogue]

"Also what's funny is that in a real fight, even the world's greatest grapplers can't stop themselves from doing what almost ALWAYS happens in real self-defense. Tought talk, the encroachment, the stare down, the sucker punch."

I've wondered about that Ryu. What's the most common pose BJJ guys hit? The Wallid. I've wondered if that attitude was also used on the street, though I've never seen the BJJ guys that I know use it.

[Ryu]

The "tough guy" mask is what does that. It doesn't belong to any particular style I don't think. I think despite what a person is trained in, if they want to impose a "tough guy" response, etc. They usually will do this. Stare down, hand movements, encroachment, and a lot of times will throw some strike as the "set off" of the fight. It's not the most strategic of tactics. In the realm of SD it would be seen (and I think has been recorded in a previous post) as a "amateur" type of thing.
That's why I give credit to people like Sammy Franco (though his board's a bit weird sometimes) and Richard Dimitri (who I am starting to respect very much). The stuff they teach really lets you intercept a fight before it even starts if you do it right. Though the athleticism and skill you have to finish it off is up to you...

Ryu

[Gabriel]

I know what you guys are saying about bravado in cma and other arts and styles. IMO one disadvantage in my kwoon specifically is this sense of superiority over other arts. Many of my kung fu brothers have this attitude that our style when in the right hands, can beat any style, performed by any guy, hands down. Well no, we have a healthy respect for Hung Gar, because one of sifu's friends is a Hung Gar sifu, very fast and strong, and he swings by the kwoon sometimes. Anyway, I can give an example how many of my kf brothers have a dislike and/or contempt for the grappling arts.

Sifu and one of my kf brothers were practicing hand techniques, sort of a kung-fu sparring, if you will. Well, my kf brother caught sifu in chicken stance after a stunning recovery, and brought sifu to the ground, with that I said "Get him in the guard!" as a joke, referring to wrestling and bjj. Well, some guys didn't know what I meant, and others gave me dirty looks, a few actually lightly scolded me for deviating from our style in my commentary. A good buddy of mine, didn't scold me, but made a derogatory remark about bjj. Altogether, not a promising reaction eh? Oh, sifu won. He "tore out" my kf brothers throat. :D

Rogue, I know what you mean about some CMA's not actually knowing how to fight other arts through experience. Im sure alot of those guys have only fought other guys in their respective style. I have sparred with other KF guys, karate, tkd, ect, but haven't had much experience with grapplers. Well, I once wrestled a friend of mine, who was just an Ohio State University wrestler. Well, he had me pinned several times before I could do much. He's like twice my size but hey, it gave me a healthy respect for wrestlers. I still reserve the excuse that he was a friend and I couldn't strike him though. Moral code and all that...
:p

IMHO, thats CMA's only problem. We don't really fight against other styles, just ourselves. Of course, this is only in my experience. I may be flamed here in a sec. :D

Gabriel

[scotty1]

I think you're probably right.

[KC Elbows]

Because they study traditional chinese martial arts, they are clearly correct. You should be ashamed at yourself for not immediately recognizing their wisdom.:D

BTW, I think all ligitimate martial arts are cool, I could care less what country they come from or how old they are. And you can figure I'm right, because I study traditional chinese martial arts, so we can end this discussion right now.

I'm always happy to impart my traditional chinese wisdom to the unclean. Now go wash yourselves.

Stinky b@st@rds.