Anyone here ever do dynamic tension forms?

[IronFist]

I mean forms that were designed to be done entirely with maximal tension, for the purpose of building power, such as Stone Warrior, Snake Turns Over, Sanchin, etc. What were your experiences? For how long did you do the form? Did you benefit from it?

Oh yeah, people who have done regular forms* but with dynamic tension throughout the whole thing can comment as well.

IronFist

*"Regular forms" meaning forms that were NOT designed for the sole purpose of doing them with dynamic tension for power/strength/size development.

[diego]

IF do you know what the chinese mean when they talk about tendonstretching and marrowwashing exercise?, I Dont know much about the theorys and i have my own ideas on these; I'm wondering if you know about the tendonstretching strentgh if you Would discuss and compare this with and oppossed to your average western wieghtlifter and bodybuilder..How do these training regimens compare what is worked and how so, etc In relation to extra strentgh building for combat training!.
:cool: uno?, Any Idea!.

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

Diego,

As well as the kind and informative replies no doubt to be offered here, if you ask that question on the Tibetan forum, you will get a clear answer.

Tao.

[diego]

:cool:

If Anyone Here Can Build on this to, That Would be Great!.

[Royal Dragon]

South Tai Tzu has a really ancient San Zhen in it. I do it a couple of times a week for about 30 minutes each time in 4 week cycles. It's a great set, and so long as you get the breathing right it's one heck of a challenge. It builds alot of mental drive if nothing else.

I have found it to be good if done AFTER weight lifting or heavy weapons training. I do it after basic staff drills with a 6' metal fence post as a staff on occasion.

[Former castleva]

I have the idea that tough tension katas/excercises (such like sanchin in karate) could seriously damage one´s health,or/and make you pass out,as an example.But the subject is an alien to me anyway,in good hands,it could be beneficial?

[DelicateSound]

I've done some before in Lau Gar. Not sure if they were purpose forms but the main exercise was complete tension starting at the feet.

Leaves you in complete sweat and every muscle aches. I felt a short term improvement but you really need to do it every week to feel proper benefit. Takes about 15 minutes in total. Knackering. Try it without forms.

Just stand in simple WC position and tense up everything from feet up. e.g: Tense feet count to 50 breaths, tense legs count to 50 breaths... at the end count 200 breaths then relax. Add in some tensed slow punches for variety.



Have fun :rolleyes: :D

[diego]

DS, What purpose do you think this traning served for combat?, like why did the founders doit?.

and you know what i'm talking about;)

[Royal Dragon]

They probually wanted something that built the body with no need for equipment. This would be a concern if trying to prepare a large number of fighters in a situation where the funding to supply them with weapons was hard enough. Dynamic tension setts allow you to strengthen your fighters quite a bit with out having to stock pile lots of wights and it also has the advantage of being able to take it with you wherever you go. If you are a traveling Monk and don't have the ability to carry a small gym full of training equipment with you, dynamic tension execises would be perfect for you as they can be done anytime, anywhere with no hassles.

[diego]

Just Curious, So For KungFu in Genral or any Martial Style?, What Would Be The Optimal Training Regimen in respects to discussion, like Bodybuilding is outs, aint no real usable strentgh thier compared to a cowboy farmer or construction worker, such as in the guiness book of world records thier is a 76 year cowboy from the south or midwest, he has/had? the record for ripping in half two quarters in one second!, So, I'm Thinking He must have awesome kinetic energy in his bridgehands from pulling horse?:cool: . This Is What I Would Like To Find Out More About in Relation To KF, Like What Types Of Strentgh Trainings Did SHaolin And Wudang Do that relates and is usable in your techniques?>

[diego]

Whats With The ounciations at the beginning of our posts

PROBUAL GENRAL??WTF....

[Kristoffer]

What Tibetan forum? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Royal Dragon]

"Like Bodybuilding is outs, aint no real usable strentgh thier compared to a cowboy farmer or construction worker"

Reply]
True, but modern strength traingh for sports performance on the other hand is a whole different ball game, and the weight lifting done there gives LOTS of useable strength.

Also, a Cow boy and a Farmer or construction worker is NOT all that strong. Also the ones that are, lift weights on a regular basis. These are just rough and tumble guys who like physical activty so wieght lifting, body building and other athletic activtys just go with that personality type. It's NOT the job, trust me that kind of work really wears you down, and most of those guys in there mid 30's cant even run around the block anymore.

[dre]

Yes, I do the 18 lohan- which we do with tension.

[DelicateSound]

Diego - It's better for toning than building really. The purpose is to toughen the body, but also to help concentration and relaxation. Can be used for any style.

[DelicateSound]

And some guy ripped in half 2 quarters?

That's impossible. Bullsh!t surely?!! :eek:

[Shaolindynasty]

Allot of dynamic tension forms like the one RD does also are meant as a phase of iron body training. In some styles they are the complete iron body training, the dynamic tension is more for "hardening" the body rather than building strength(although it does both). In addition to that they also teach how to beat the iron body technique because many of the strikes go to specific acupoints.

RD- when you do the "double fingerjab" move, notice that it goes directly to the lung meridian, can't think of the actual numbers of the points off the top of my head, get a chart and check each move most of then go to specific points(mostly "kill" points).

[Kevin73]

I can't remember who asked it, but they asked about Sanchin being bad for your health and passing out, it CAN be bad just like if you were lifting weights and trying to hold your breath you can pass out. There are different styles of sanchin even some will have you inhale exhale just like when you are lifting weights and other methods have you hold your breath will tensing the muscles and doing the dynamic tension.

[Royal Dragon]

You are absolutly right about the Iron Body thing. Also, you are right about the striking pressure point thing, I didn't think about that until after I posted the above and got off the computer.

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

www.tibetankungfu.com

and click on research papers link.

Tao.

[joedoe]

Ngor Chor has several Sanchin sets. I have done the basic one for 15 years now. Never caused any problems for me. Matter of fact I believe it has helped my asthma a lot.

[diego]

Originally posted by DelicateSound
And some guy ripped in half 2 quarters?

That's impossible. Bullsh!t surely?!! :eek:

Guiness Book!, I'll Check Agian Inna Min:cool:

[IronFist]

I've never heard anyting about tendon stretching other than the fact that you're not supposed to stretch tendons :)

I've also heard that the dynamic tension stuff can cause high blood pressure, heart attack, make you pass out, etc., but I think that the key to preventing the bad things is proper breathing. Some dynamic tension sets have specified breathing patterns.

Sifu Allen of Green Dragon Studios has supposedly done Stone Warrior, a 90 minute long dynamic tension set, daily for many years and it doesn't seem to have harmed his health.

IronFist

[joedoe]

Originally posted by IronFist
...
I've also heard that the dynamic tension stuff can cause high blood pressure, heart attack, make you pass out, etc., but I think that the key to preventing the bad things is proper breathing. Some dynamic tension sets have specified breathing patterns.
...
IronFist

I actually believe the breathing patterns are the key to the sets. They certainly are in the Ngor Chor Sanchin sets anyway.

[scotty1]

Delicate, in Lau Gar did you learn (OK realy dodgy guessed spelling) Cae Boon Su Far? I'm spelling it how I pronounced it, so its probably completely wrong.

But its the first hand set in Lau Gar, done in horse stance.

I do that in tension sometimes, like you say, its good for tone.

I don't spar with any of the techniques from the form so it's kind of pointless doing it from that point of view, but I'm sure there must be other benefits other than increased tone from practicing the form, tensioned or otherwise.

Dunno what they are though. Although the form is getting better every time I perform it, so something is improving.

Just increasing co-ordination I suppose.

[Shaolindynasty]

Joedoe- does ngo Chu have parts in the san chein form where you tense while holding the breath?

Also what of the 5 systems in Ngo Chu are the san chein forms credited to? I read in the book (Five ansestors kungfu) that tamo's style(forget spelling used in book) was credited.


Guys I think the health problems can only come from doing the sets improperly. Allot of styles use this training off the top of my head here are some Goju ryu, isshin ryu, fukien white crane, hung gar, southern mantis and ngo chu keun. I have also seen some pretty old men practiceing this form and where in incredible shape they were from karate.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Shaolindynasty
Joedoe- does ngo Chu have parts in the san chein form where you tense while holding the breath?

Also what of the 5 systems in Ngo Chu are the san chein forms credited to? I read in the book (Five ansestors kungfu) that tamo's style(forget spelling used in book) was credited.


Guys I think the health problems can only come from doing the sets improperly. Allot of styles use this training off the top of my head here are some Goju ryu, isshin ryu, fukien white crane, hung gar, southern mantis and ngo chu keun. I have also seen some pretty old men practiceing this form and where in incredible shape they were from karate.

I am not sure what you mean by tense. The breathing is connected with 'raising' and 'lowering' the dantien, so the abdominal muscles naturally tense to a certain degree. The rest of the body should stay relaxed. There is natural tension in the arms for some movements, but they are usually accompanied with an outward breath not an inward (or held) breath.

In Ngor Chor, each of the 5 systems has a Sam Chien form so it is hard to tell which it is credited to. Tai Tzu definitely has it (actually I think it has more than one), and I understand so does Pak Hok. I have not seen any of the other ones. Ngor Chor itself has a Sam Chien form that does not belong to any of the 5 foundation arts, but can be seen as a fusion of all 5. This is the Sam Chien form I have practised the most, and I can probably safely say most Ngor Chor practitioners practise it for as long as they train in Ngor Chor.

There is a saying the 40% of Ngor Chor is contained in Sam Chien. There is another saying that a Ngor Chor practitioner starts with Sam Chien and ends with Sam Chien :).

[Royal Dragon]

I'm not expert on 5 Anscestors, but the style did come partly from us and WE have San Zhen. However, it is not very clear were San Zhen actually came from, it is possible that it originally came from White crane and was imported to both Tai Tzu and 5 Ancestors around the same time. or Tai Tzu had it first and it just passed to 5 ancestors as it evolved. It's hard to say, anything could have hapened. I'm betting if you looked into it you'd find no one knows for sure.

[Shaolindynasty]

Joe doe-The "natural tension" is that the same thing as 'dynamic tension". For instance dynamic tension would mean tensing the muscles and pushing forward in essence working the muscles against each other? Or is it different?

p.s. I would love to study this art but there are no schools near me, Ngo Chu interests me allot.

[Shaolindynasty]

RD- I wasn't really asking about the origin of the technique but the origin of it within Ngo Chu.

I read in the Ngo Chu book about one of their early masters (not sure right now but maybe the founder) who was very famous in Fukein province and over time allot of styles became influenced by this technique and added it to their systems.

I don't beleive this technique came from taitzu in the Ngo Chu book they credit tai tzu with their kicking techniques and it said the northern tai tzu was the one used.

I think it would be really interesting to find out that tai tzu and white crane were 2 of the styles used to create ngo Chu which in turn altered them by teaching them the san chein set.

[Black Jack]

I know that in the western body building circuit that this has been around for a long time, the old Charles Atlas program is founded on Dynamic body tension, the old "body-bulk" yoga like 1933 system of George Walsh also had some dynamic tension movements.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Shaolindynasty
Joe doe-The "natural tension" is that the same thing as 'dynamic tension". For instance dynamic tension would mean tensing the muscles and pushing forward in essence working the muscles against each other? Or is it different?

p.s. I would love to study this art but there are no schools near me, Ngo Chu interests me allot.

SD: When I say natural tension, it is like when you throw a straight punch - even though you are relaxed there is a certain amount of tension in the muscles and tendons that is a result of the final position of the arm. We aren't taught to tense the muscles and push forward.

Also, because of the breathing pattern there is a certain natural tension in the abdominal region as well.

Next time I am heading for the the US and have some time to look around (i.e when I am over there for pleasure rather than business :)) I will let you know and see if we can hook up. Maybe I can show you some Ngor Chor. A word of warning though - they 'flavour' of Ngor Chor I learn is different from the one shown in the book you mentioned. They are more influenced by the Tai Tzu whereas our lineage is more influenced by the Pak Hok.

As for who influenced who - I don't know and I would be surprised if we could ever find out who was first. Ultimately I don't think it really matters any further than from an academic standpoint. :) I am fascinated by the fact that so many styles have Sam Chien and each one is different. I think Sam Chien as a 'philosophical' idea might make an interesting discussion ;)

[diego]

JoeDoe, I Understand The Title SamChien, Is Ngor Chor 5Ancestors?. Would You Tell Me What Is Your Style in Your Profile?, & When You Write PakHOk You Mean Tibetan White Crane?:cool:

[joedoe]

Yes, Ngor Chor Kun is Hokkien for 5 Ancestors. It is also called Wu Chu Chuan (Mandarin) or Ng Cho Kuen (Cantonese).

When I refer to Pak Hok in reference to 5 Ancestors I am talking about Fukkien White Crane (as opposed to Tibetan).

[diego]

Cool, and Dang I Hope You had some interesting info relating to HopGar and his Cousins:cool:
Thanks Anyway!:D

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, I have the Wu Tzu Chuan/ Ngo Cho book too, and it does mention the Tai Tzu used was the Northern variety, BUT 5 Anscestors is very clearly based on Southern Tai Tzu if you look at it.

Sifu Abel has seen it in competions and was able to compare it to his South Tai Tzu. I have also spoken to others who have both seen and practiced both and all agree 5 Anscestors is verually identical in structre and application to South Tai Tzu.

I get the impression that 5 Ansecstors is an advancement on the South Tai Tzu with other things thrown in the mix as well.

Even the book I have seems close to what I do. Thier first San Zhen set is almost identical with only minor differences. Based on the book, one could almost say thier San Zhen is just another version of ours. An onlooker seeing a Tai Tzu player and a Ngo Cho player doing San Zhen side by side would not know who was Tai Tzu, and who was Ngo Cho, it's that close.

The forms are all different (I think), but the core mechanics and expression are very close, from what I'm hearing.


My Tai Tzu forum can be found at royaldragonusa.net stop by and see some of the conversations.

[Shaolindynasty]

From the book the form does look very similar but I have a masters demo tape from the 2000 baltimore tournament with that set performed on it and it looks very different. Ng cho is definatly related to Tai Tzu though.

I agree with Joedoe in saying it's inteesting to see how many styles have this "form" but each practice a different version that contains the basics from that style.

[Royal Dragon]

Hmm, I have to get a copy of that me thinks the 2001 Baltimore Nationals too.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Yeah, I have the Wu Tzu Chuan/ Ngo Cho book too, and it does mention the Tai Tzu used was the Northern variety, BUT 5 Anscestors is very clearly based on Southern Tai Tzu if you look at it.

Sifu Abel has seen it in competions and was able to compare it to his South Tai Tzu. I have also spoken to others who have both seen and practiced both and all agree 5 Anscestors is verually identical in structre and application to South Tai Tzu.

I get the impression that 5 Ansecstors is an advancement on the South Tai Tzu with other things thrown in the mix as well.

Even the book I have seems close to what I do. Thier first San Zhen set is almost identical with only minor differences. Based on the book, one could almost say thier San Zhen is just another version of ours. An onlooker seeing a Tai Tzu player and a Ngo Cho player doing San Zhen side by side would not know who was Tai Tzu, and who was Ngo Cho, it's that close.

The forms are all different (I think), but the core mechanics and expression are very close, from what I'm hearing.


My Tai Tzu forum can be found at royaldragonusa.net stop by and see some of the conversations.

I am assuming you guys are talking about the book written about the Phillipino school by Alexander Co? If so, you are right. Their forms are very closely tied to Southern Tai Tzu as are most of their techniques. The Chinese and Indonesian practitioners also practice Sam Chien in a similar way.

I might see if I can get hold of any footage from the Ngor Chor conferences that are held in China every year or two and post some video clips of the various different Sam Chien styles even within the art of Ngor Chor.

[IronFist]

btw, Charles Atlas' strength was a result of his weight training, not his dynamic tension. It's kind of a long story, but it ended up going to court I heard. Or something.

IronFist

[Mr Punch]

So can you shorten the story Ironfist?

BJ: do you have any info on connections with western monks' ascetic training? Would they not have had some similar techniques?

[Shaolindynasty]

Actually one of Charles atlas's competition in selling things accused him of getting his sculpture from weights but couldn't prove it.

[Shaolindynasty]

Joedoe- I would be interested in finding out where I could purchase a tape that contains performances of different lines of Ng Chu/Ngo chu/wu chu. Yours sounds very interesting to since I am also interested in the fukien crane style.

[Buby]

In YKM we also have a dynamic tension form called Ying Ching. It builds iron body, dip gwat ging(rib power), and it also works as a detoxifier or cleansing form.

The breathing is very important in dynamic tension forms, if done incorrectly they can do more harm than good.

Buby

[Black Jack]

Whats up gents,

Yeah I know about that the whole Atlas thing, the truth is somewhere in the middle, but who knows. I have access to the old course but I have not looked at it in a long time.

Since I like western combatives, combative history research and martial arts one of the things I have started to get into is vintage body building, strongman and physical health manuels, back when a lot of the bs was cut out of the weightlifting industry, just good old boy working out and common sense training methods, hoping to find something lost in the shuffle of time.

I have been working out with weights in one format or another since about 11 years ago, with typical periods of high intensity and the standard low peaks over the years as one adjusts to new changes in there life, growing up and adulthood.

Taking a perspective/ideal from yoga type methods and the old farmer burns style calisthenics I have been looking for more forgotten western bodyweight programs of the past, with a focus on those that combine special deep breathing with a series of specific calisthenics, though old programs with weights is also very enjoyable, like all research that is useable I find the hunt just as fun as the use, plus they are a great way to spice up my modern weight training.

Last night was my frist night working/testing out with the bodyweight calisthenics 1933 George Walsh "Body-Bulk" program which I acquired.

My review is one of sheer argghhhhhh!!!!! my f'in legs and hips kill!!!!! :D That and I wonder how much pain I would be in if I went through the whole program:confused:

George Walsh was a professional british bodybuilder, lifter and personal trainer in the 1930's. His program deals with what is called Anatomic Type-which seems to be depending on your ribcage shape and size-though what I really think means how much shape are you in.

The program is a progressive schedule of excersices for the development of a general term he calls "body-bulk"-in a nutshell I he states that this means to bring your "condition to the highest possible degree of vitality and to simulate the metabolism in such a way that functional physical enlargement takes place.

The excerisces are not really concered with the development of any individual muscle but on the body, both external and internal as a whole.

A lot of odd and neat details in there, after my first day of doing some of the program, there are 3 lessons filled with different excersices and 3 levels of health that you might fit in-I went through 2 lessons to test out the feel-my legs were blasted the rest of the night and this morning I am REALLY sore in the quads, hips, ribcage, lower stomach and lumber region, that and I feel more flexiable today.

Fun stuff.

[Royal Dragon]

I am REALLY sore in the quads, hips, ribcage, lower stomach and lumber region,

Reply]
Lumbar region ehy? I need massive development there due to my herniated disks, for the support alone. I would be interested in getting a looks at this routine.

[Black Jack]

Royal,

Herniated disks suck!! My girlfriends aunt just found out her neck pain was caused by two of her discs have vanished, how that happens I have no freakin idea, she needs to have surgery now.

After I get back from doing some stuf I will repost tell you a little about the program and if you want I can spend some time rewritting-the pages are old-the pictures are clean and send it to you.

I will post latter,

Cheers bro and take care of your back!!

P.S. Have you seen a chiropracter or a physical therapist yet?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Shaolindynasty
Joedoe- I would be interested in finding out where I could purchase a tape that contains performances of different lines of Ng Chu/Ngo chu/wu chu. Yours sounds very interesting to since I am also interested in the fukien crane style.

I will see what I can do. There is an international Ngor Chor body now and they hold a conference every year or two (originally it was every 2nd year but recently they have been having them every year). Attendees can usually obtain a video or VCD with the highlights of the conference on it. I will see if someone will lend me a copy and see if I can get some stuff to you.

I'll let you know if I can get a copy and then I'll get your details off you.

Alternatively, I can let you know when the next conference is on and see if you want to go along for a look :).

[Royal Dragon]

Count me in on the Wu Tzu Chuan stuff, It would be of great help in my Tai Tzu research.

[popsider]

Ironfist,

As you are a wing chunner are you aware that some lineages incorporate dynamic tension into the SLT form? THe first section of the form can be done with tension and/or special breathing in the 3x pak/fook section. I know for example that Chris Chan in the USA and James Sinclair use dynamic tension and Randy Williams did (does?) use certain breathing and tension in the dan tien during this section of the form.

THe lineages I train in now and have trained mainly in do not incorporate this - at least not to my knowledge - and adopt a different approach - but I think it is interesting that this exists, I don't know where it originates from. I think there was once a thread on the wing chun forum but the consensus was it was bull****.

[Kaitain(UK)]

I study Wado-Ryu Karate - a traditional Okinawan style

I have to say that I do Sanchin in 3 different ways and none of them use dynamic tension, all of them emphasise breathing from the stomach to improve technique

First Way - constant slow speed with open hand. COncentrating on isolation of one side of the waist to move the hand and on the extensions a feeling of the energy reaching the fingertips

Second Way - as above but with fists - bit harder to feel where the energy/force is going to

Third Way - slow speed with fist but use of fa-jing type explosion for strikes - from the strikes the hand returns to the classic spread position with no pause, so the strike has to be properly relaxed and powered from the waist

I see lots of people really overdoing the breathing and letting the chest rise up, loads of muscle tension and ultimately nothing in the actual movements.

For me it's the best Kata in the Karate system - it trains the waist like nothing else, I'd say that it even focusses on segmenting the waist better than the Taiji form (although the form can be trained with that focus alone and then it becomes better).

[Shaolindynasty]

Joedoe- That would be cool. Hey do you know where are the wu chu schools in the USA? I have seen a few tapes from tc media with demos, one loks like allot of monkey style, and the other looked more like the san cheim form in the book by Alexander Co. I was just curious if you knew where these guys are coming from.


It's interesting to find out about the san chin sets that don't use dynamic tension. in my longfist system there are sets that seem like they use dynamic tension(strong breathing etc) but you stay relaxed while doing it.

[Braden]

BlackJack

I don't think dynamic tension forms are a good idea.

Sounds like I'm going more-or-less the same route with exercises as you, although I'm trying to keep it very simple and allready get lots of breathing from my qigong practice.

There are some things I like and some things I dislike about the bodyweight thing. What I like is the emphasis on whole body movement / moving the body rather than the weight. What I don't like is the fast speed people do them at (I like to do reps slow), and how much time (ie. how many reps) you end up sinking into them once you get into it (also, what implications this may have for strength gain).

I'm getting incredible results now out of hindu squats with a weighted vest and chinups with a weighted vest. I'm trying to find the right companion for them for pecs/triceps - weighted pushups haven't impressed me much yet. Full pike on the chinups, and going like mad on the forearm-squeezies during the squats seems to be a 'free lunch.' That's the core routine. I supplement for shoulders by cycling through back, side, and front shoulder flies as one rep.

It's new, and I'm always experimenting, just to find what works for me.

[Black Jack]

Braden,

I tend to agree. For the triceps try some triangle pushups and if you use weights, rope pushdowns and french curls.

Dynamic tension is not a big thing with me, when and if I use it in a routine its always at the end of a set, just a bit of a hold to finish me off, never the whole excerisce in that manner, though I like to move slow but steady.

Some of body movements in the Walsh routine look like a cross between standard western calisthenics and stretches, things like pushups, decline pushups, dips, and yoga like movements using the bodyweight and DEEP breathwork.

Some of the 24 excerisces are,

1. Stand erect, feet apart, arms hanging at sides, elbows straight, raise the arms forwards and upwards to stretch above your head, at the same time inhaling DEEPLY. Lower the arms, at the same time exhaling completely.

2. Stand erect, feet 8 ins apart, arms outstrecthed overhead, keeping the legs straight and without moving the arms, bend the trunk as far as possible, first to the left and then to the right, breathing DEEPLY and exhaling completely, counts as one rep when both sides are done.

3. Leg Lifts on your back/legs locked.

4. Take up a sprinter position, move the right leg back to join the left, then up as far between the arms as possible, then repeat intell set is complete.

5. The Fish-Lie on the ground, face downwards, arms clasped behind the back. Raise chest and legs from the floor as far as possible, breathing deeply on contraction and then exhaling when going down.

6. Hindu Squats-Arggghhh!!!!

7. Victorian Sit Ups- Same as leg lifts but raise legs upwards and backwards as far as possible trying to touch the ground behind your head-he has two types of these to do-arms at sides and folded across your chest.

8. Hindu Push Ups-Looks like a combination of yogas cobra pose and the downward dog.

9. One legged Squats on a chair/and not on a chair-Arggghhhh!!!!!! I won't tell you how much of a ***** I am with these.

10. Inverted Bicycling-Almost on your head/supported on your trunk-peddling your ass off.

11. Side Stretches-Standing erect/ one arm behind head other on seem of pants/leg, three thrusts down, going as far as you can go, three reps equals on each side equals one rep.

12. Bridge/Leg Lift-In a backbend/Left one leg up/then the other.

Those are about have the movements listed. It kinda breaks up the weightlifting routine and helps me sleep. My legs are full of latic acid today.

[Braden]

Sounds interesting. If I'm picturing them right, I've played with a number of those exercises.

What are you trying to get out of the breathing? Abdominal development, increased lung usage, or functional respiration for combat?

Do you do both the hindu squats and the single-leg squats? What are your impressions of them? I'd rather be working single-legs, but I find that when I do, I have to supplement something for my calfs, and I'm trying to be economical. I know what you mean about the leg burn though - my first time last night doing hindu squats with 133% bodyweight.

[Black Jack]

Braden,

The program is really made to be worked in 3 lessons-changing a lesson each month-each workout practiced each day and increased in rep volume every week but being the type of person I am I tend to go ****her in the lessons for the attempt of a deeper workout maybe around 2 lessons instead of one.

My aspect on the breathing would have to fit into two different areas. Those would be increased lung usage and functional respiration with a bigger umbrella goal of just recharging my internal vitality which to me means the stuff that you can't see on the outside, the deeper organs, one of the comments made by Walsh was that this program has helped people with some digestive problems and jump started there metabolism though the same has been sited of course by standard modern weight lifting.

The hindu squats are a killer, I don't do them weighted, I keep my leg presses for that, the one legged squats are supposed to be performed in a different lesson if you fit into that health level but I attempt them anyway to give my legs a last blast, to me they are very hard, not the weight really but the balance, the small supporting muscle, I am not able to do many yet.

I have noticed that alot of holistic bodyweight programs have a method that stretches and expands the chest outwards. A number of the same methods in this program can be seen in other vastly older systems like Yoga.

You should pick up a copy of the Eye of Revelation by Peter Kelder as an example, its a small but strange booklet written in 1939 which contains which is known as the "Five Rites".

The Five Rites have been passed along in the occultists underground for a long time. The book contains five esotric physical excercises that are supposed to work not only on the physical body but the non physical energetic system. Two of the rites are hindu pushups and leglifts, as well as a chest expanding exercise done kneeling, a chest expanding exercise done on the back, and a twisting exercise all done to a max of 2 reps each, done slow and with full breathwork.

The hindu pushups seem to be pretty popular with occultists, martial artists and yogi and vintage lifters around it seems.

There techs are supposed to come from the authors visit to a Lamasery in India. you can find the simple rites easier in a book called Modern Magick/Eleven Lessons in the High Magickal Arts by Donald Michael Kraig.

I have not done the workout in like 10 years and just remebered it but since I just dug it out of the coffer I might give it a shot tonight with the Walsh program.

[Royal Dragon]

Can I hook up with you and video some of these routines? Heck, I may even want to video document all you've got for my library. It may be nice to have video copies for your own library too.

[Black Jack]

So I can embaress myself:D

I am new to this program but if you want to get together and workout its sounds cool as I would like to pick your brain on holistic eastern health. You can help get the rust off my bones, unlike you limber eastern ma types us western "messes" tend to end up pulling sh!t and feeling old. :mad:

Plus it might keep me focused on a project. How is your schedule for next week?

On Monday I have a big and somewhat nervous interview for which I am hoping to play into a career change if I shuffle my cards right. Intell then I am kinda a mental wreck. I have some guys flying down from the Nature's Spirit Corporation in New York to interview me for there regional account executive position here in Chicago, working with there distributors such as GNC and Whole Foods.

[Royal Dragon]

Good luck.

I'm not sure of my scedual, I'm holding free intrductory classes at my daughter's gym all week in the evenings, during the days I think I'm free, but Terri just wrecked her car and is hobbling around and my scedual right now is based mostly on her needs.
If things are open, does a daytime thing work for you? like around 12:00 noon time? Or maybe the same on a Saturday?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Count me in on the Wu Tzu Chuan stuff, It would be of great help in my Tai Tzu research.

Will do if I can manage to track down the footage.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Shaolindynasty
Joedoe- That would be cool. Hey do you know where are the wu chu schools in the USA? I have seen a few tapes from tc media with demos, one loks like allot of monkey style, and the other looked more like the san cheim form in the book by Alexander Co. I was just curious if you knew where these guys are coming from.


It's interesting to find out about the san chin sets that don't use dynamic tension. in my longfist system there are sets that seem like they use dynamic tension(strong breathing etc) but you stay relaxed while doing it.

I know there is one school in San Lorenzo CA, and one in Mobile Alabama (I think). The website for the San Lorenzo school is:

http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ngorchor/

Unfortunately I don't know anything about the school in Mobile.

Andy Foster (the sifu of the San Lorenzo school) is very good at monkey style, so if you saw him his forms may have a more monkey flavour to it. Our school (in general) uses monkey footwork, crane hands, and lohan posture. We use Damo and Tai Tzu, but they either aren't as obvious or are reserved for special training.

[Vash]

ttt

[David Jamieson]

hee hee, black jack is doing yoga, blaack jack is doing yoga.

there are also a couple of those in yi jin jing, point em out campers!

and also a couple from nei gong.

interesting.... I'd like to hear what the other half is.

Blackjack, if you still come around here or are posting as someone else, let's hear what the other half of the routine is and a little on where it comes from or how you went about stringing all these things together.

cheers