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extrajoseph
06-13-2001, 03:22 PM
Choy Lee Fut, Choy Li Fut, Choi Lei Fut, Choy Lay Fat, etc. (CLF) Schools

In CLF there are 4 main branches or schools:

1) Hung Sing, meaning Great Sage. This was the name of Chan Heung’s first school in King Mui Village. This is the eldest branch and is still being maintained by Chan Heung’s descendants.

2) Hung Sing – It has the same sounds as above but has different characters meaning Heroic Victory. This branch was passed down by Chan Heung outside King Mui Village, other than Cheung Ah Yim’s lineage.

3) Hung Sing – Again it has the same sounds but different characters and this time meaning Grand Victory. This branch was passed down by Cheung Ah Yim (or Cheung Yim) who went to Fatshan to set up his school there. Cheung was an outstanding disciple of Chan Heung.

4) Buk Sing – Meaning Northern Victory. This branch was passed down by Tam Sam in Siu Buk district of Guangzhou (Canton or Kwongchow), hence called Buk Sing. This branch was the youngest of the four mentioned.

Nowadays, there are break-away schools such as Buk Sing Fut Gar and Tsoi Li Ho Fut Hung which do not have the name CLF in their titles at all but nevertheless they all acknowledge their lineage to Chan Heung, the founder of CLF.

Please let me know if you can think of other branches that I have left out. Also, just for interest, how many ways are CLF written in English?

premier
06-13-2001, 10:18 PM
Yes. I think those are the main branches in Northern America, but Chan Heung's great great grandson, Chan Yong Fa lives in Australia and has branch of his own, which is known in USA as "Chan Family Choy lee fut". There's a lot of schools of that branch in Europe, South America, and some even in USA.

Kung Lek
06-13-2001, 10:36 PM
hi Joseph.

Tsoi Li Ho and Cai Li Fo actually are romanizations of the words Choy Li Fut.

Bak Sing Fut Gar also uses the name Choy Li Fut or is used in tandem with the Choy Li Fut name IE: he practices Bak Sing Fut Gar, a style of Choy Li Fut.

peace

Kung Lek

Fu-Pow2
06-14-2001, 01:09 AM
Howdy...just curious which branch do you belong to? And also do you know which one Wong Ha belongs to?

extrajoseph
06-14-2001, 06:09 AM
Fu-Pow2,

Wong Ha is a very well respected teacher from Hong Kong who is now living in Canada. He was a student of Chan Yiu-Chi (Grandson of Chan Heung) and Tong Shek (Student of Chan Yiu-Chi) so he can be considered part Great Sage and part Heroic Victory Hung Sing. I came from a similar back ground but one and two generations behind.

Chan Yong-Fa is pure Great Sage Hung Sing since he is the great great grandson of Chan Heung. His small group of indoor disciples called themselves Wing Sing Tong (Hall of Everlasting Victory), a name given by Chan Heung to his family. Some called it Chan Family CLF to highlight their lineage, they all mean the same thing.

Josep

extrajoseph
06-14-2001, 09:54 AM
Kung Lek,

I can understand Cai Li Fo being a Pinyin romanization for CLF, what dialect is Tsoi Li Ho and what is "Fut Hung" stand for?

Most of the romanizations for CLF are based on various Cantonese dialects and I am aware that different people want to use different romanizations to set themselves apart.

Joseph

premier
06-15-2001, 11:04 PM
Thanks for the information. Very interesting. Does this mean, you're Great sage hung sing branch yourself?

extrajoseph
06-16-2001, 12:02 AM
primier,

I studied with teachers from both Great Sage and Heroic Victory Hung Sing so I know a little above both, they are very similar but Great Sage has more weapon and fist forms and more internal Lian Kung (training exercise) techniues like Tai Gig Kung (some called it Luohan Qigong) and Noi Nim Sou Fa (Inner Sticky Hands - close fighting with chin na and take downs) etc. They also have a lot of Wooden Dummy stuff that other schools do not have.

Joseph

iron_silk
06-16-2001, 02:10 AM
Since Wong Ha also learned from Chan Yiu-Chi (the grandson of Chan Heung) then shouldn't his style also be considered of Family style?

I mean I assume Chan Yong-Fa also came through Chan Yiu-Chi as with Fu Hang Ng (I am sorry if the spelling is incorrect)

I was just curious, thank you!

iron_silk
06-16-2001, 02:11 AM
I meant to address the message to Joseph...sorry about that!

extrajoseph
06-16-2001, 09:16 AM
Wong Ha only learned from Chan Yiu-Chi for a short time, most of the time he was with Tong Shek in Hong Kong, but you could say he is part of Chan family lineage.

Joseph

iron_silk
06-16-2001, 11:03 AM
if Tong Shek was Wong Ha's senior, then wouldn't Tong Shek's master be Chan Yiu Chi?

and do you mind if I ask how come you know so much about Wong Ha?

extrajoseph
06-16-2001, 11:42 PM
If you read my earlier postings, I have given you the answers already.

Have a nice day.

iron_silk
06-17-2001, 12:45 AM
oh yes I see that now...so then how does it make Wong Ha part Heroic victory? is it from Tong Shek that it is so?

Thank you for your patience.

extrajoseph
06-17-2001, 02:43 AM
In the past, although Hong Kong and Kwongchow (Guangzhou) is only a short distance away, they are like 2 foreign countries especially during the Cultural Revolution. It was not easy nor desirable to keep in touch. Both these old masters left China very early (Tong Shek is no longer with us), so they have lost contact with Chan Yiu-Chi for a large part of their life. Meanwhile they kept on studying and refining their art with others but still regard Chan Yiu-Chi as their teacher, hence I say they are part Great Sage and part Heroic Victory Hung Sing.

Protocol in traditional Chinese martial arts required us to be more subtle in flushing other people's lineage. It is really non of our business. I may be wrong in my assumptions, others closer to these two masters may be able to corerect my mistakes.

You sound very young to me and I envey your youth and directness.

Josep

iron_silk
06-17-2001, 05:56 AM
naivete is perhaps different from youthful directness, from which do you refer?

anyway I would like to thank you for your patience and explanation. It is clear that you have a large wealth of information, and perhaps I have a clear picture of where my master came from thanks to you.

so how long have your studied in Choy Lay Fut?

extrajoseph
06-17-2001, 10:34 AM
No, you are not naïve, you are just curious..

Perhaps it is also a reflection on my part of not explaining the Great Sage branch clearly. In reality it is the forerunner of Heroic Victory Hung Sing branch and is generally reserved for Chan Heung's family members. Later on, also for disciples who have studied for a long time with him or his descendants. It is a very small group attached to five generations of the Chan family and most people in the group also considered them-selves to be part of the Heroic Victory Hung Sing School at the same time.

Chan Heung had to change the name of his Gwoon from Great Sage to Heroic Victory because the Chinese character for "Great" (Hung) had a connotation of over throwing the Qing and restoring the Ming Dynasty. It was not a politically correct thing to do at the time when Chan Heung tried to spread his teaching outside his King Mui Village.

IMO we should not play up too much on the branch differences, after all we are all members of the same family with our roots going back to Chan Heung. If your teacher is Wong Ha and if you say you are doing CLF, then we are related. I have been practising CLF on and off since high school and now I have passed my middle age, so I know a little about the older generation practitioners. Besides I am very good at giving an impression that I know a lot.

Joseph
;)

iron_silk
06-18-2001, 07:26 AM
...thanks for all the info.

To tell you the truth I am not a very good student of CLF, but I do have great respect for my master. It's just due to certain realities had made me miss classes for such a long time that I thought it would be weird for me to return without his invitation. It's been a couple of years now, and I just don't know how to go back, or gain my master's trust.

Actually, noticing all the many website on CLF, I really wanted a website which talked about my master and his lineage. Trying to capture as much as possible, since he is advancing in age. He is a great master, at least in my opinion.

It is nice to have a chance to communicate with you Joseph.