FIRE HAWK
06-14-2001, 01:44 AM
Little G
ancestral southern fist is hakka, which gave birth to lung ying, southern mantis, pak mei, etc.
not to be confused with 5-ancestor fist, which is a seperate system of southern boxing.
Rene Ritche
The Hakka (Kejiaren), I think, migrated south later than the those now considered "orginal"
southerners (who migrated south slowly until the Mongol invasion, I think, resulted
in a faster push). I would assume the earlier migrants brought their own boxing with them.
Other influences probably included General Choy Gao-Yee's teachings (which created
the first Choy Ga/Caijia, not to be confused with the latter reconstruction, Mok Ga/Mojia,
etc.). There was probabably also some transmission of Law Hon/Lohan and related
Henan Shaolin arts. The Hakka would be another big influence, as would the Fujian arts,
which might have had some cross-over with the Hakka (Ng Jo/Wuzu/Five Ancestor is
a blend of White Crane, among other things), as Saam Jin/San Jin/Three Battles/Arrows
seems to have spread from there. During the Qing, migration took place from Fujian,
through Guangdong, into Sichuan, and back, allowing perhaps more influences. Hung Ga/
Hongjia is often considered classic Nam Kuen/Nanquan/South Fist and may show many
of these influences, from Fujian, Sichuan, and native Guangdong. Just some thoughts.
Robert
Little G tell me more about this ancestral hakka southern fist.What kind of forms doesit have is it related to a southern hakka style called Chuka Shaolin Phoenix eye fist.
Little G
by the way, some people speculatete that chu gar southern mantis is about as close as you will get to the root hakka style, and that it was labeled southern mantis by later generations.
Little G
it's related to chuka phoenix-eye fist insomuch as it is related to the other southern arts. by the way, chuka phoenix-eye fist is actually chu gar southern praying mantis, which some believe is the original branch.
at any rate, the ancestral fist represents the original hakka style, if you will, practiced by the hakka peoples who migrated to southern china. it can be thought of as more of a village style, which then went on to influence many other southern arts. so, as rene pointed out, you will find the hakka influence in almost all of the standard southern boxing styles, and some of these styles even stay to their hakka roots by distinguishing themselves as "village" style. this often means they retain a strong hakka influence.
lam yu-kwai's (lung ying grandmaster) original style was hakka, which he modified after training with the tai-yuk monk and labeled it lung ying, or dragon shape boxing. cheung lai-chun (white brow grandmaster) also originally studied hakka style, which is often refered to as gypsy, or wanderer's style. this influenced his pak mei to a great extent later on
Rene Ritche
I've seen different stories about Chu Ga being the original (I think the Jook Lum folk say
it was the bridge between Jook Lum and Chow Ga), anyway, I think as the Hakka spread
through Fujian and the Liangguang (Guangdong & Guangxi), many branches evolved
(I think I've heard of Hakka snake, Iron Cow, and others as well?) Hakka boxing was
also, according to some accounts, present on the Red Junks during the Taiping uprising
(Taiping itself being Hakka led), leading to potential influence on the development of
Wing Chun Kuen. I'd heard Chung Lai-Chuen studied Lung Ying and that some say
he created Bak Mei as a streamlining of that. On Hut Yee Sao (Beggar's Fist), I've
heard that might have been a more individualistic thing, combing whatever a certain
wanderer would pick up from the extent Southern systems, Hakka being one of the major
elements.
ancestral southern fist is hakka, which gave birth to lung ying, southern mantis, pak mei, etc.
not to be confused with 5-ancestor fist, which is a seperate system of southern boxing.
Rene Ritche
The Hakka (Kejiaren), I think, migrated south later than the those now considered "orginal"
southerners (who migrated south slowly until the Mongol invasion, I think, resulted
in a faster push). I would assume the earlier migrants brought their own boxing with them.
Other influences probably included General Choy Gao-Yee's teachings (which created
the first Choy Ga/Caijia, not to be confused with the latter reconstruction, Mok Ga/Mojia,
etc.). There was probabably also some transmission of Law Hon/Lohan and related
Henan Shaolin arts. The Hakka would be another big influence, as would the Fujian arts,
which might have had some cross-over with the Hakka (Ng Jo/Wuzu/Five Ancestor is
a blend of White Crane, among other things), as Saam Jin/San Jin/Three Battles/Arrows
seems to have spread from there. During the Qing, migration took place from Fujian,
through Guangdong, into Sichuan, and back, allowing perhaps more influences. Hung Ga/
Hongjia is often considered classic Nam Kuen/Nanquan/South Fist and may show many
of these influences, from Fujian, Sichuan, and native Guangdong. Just some thoughts.
Robert
Little G tell me more about this ancestral hakka southern fist.What kind of forms doesit have is it related to a southern hakka style called Chuka Shaolin Phoenix eye fist.
Little G
by the way, some people speculatete that chu gar southern mantis is about as close as you will get to the root hakka style, and that it was labeled southern mantis by later generations.
Little G
it's related to chuka phoenix-eye fist insomuch as it is related to the other southern arts. by the way, chuka phoenix-eye fist is actually chu gar southern praying mantis, which some believe is the original branch.
at any rate, the ancestral fist represents the original hakka style, if you will, practiced by the hakka peoples who migrated to southern china. it can be thought of as more of a village style, which then went on to influence many other southern arts. so, as rene pointed out, you will find the hakka influence in almost all of the standard southern boxing styles, and some of these styles even stay to their hakka roots by distinguishing themselves as "village" style. this often means they retain a strong hakka influence.
lam yu-kwai's (lung ying grandmaster) original style was hakka, which he modified after training with the tai-yuk monk and labeled it lung ying, or dragon shape boxing. cheung lai-chun (white brow grandmaster) also originally studied hakka style, which is often refered to as gypsy, or wanderer's style. this influenced his pak mei to a great extent later on
Rene Ritche
I've seen different stories about Chu Ga being the original (I think the Jook Lum folk say
it was the bridge between Jook Lum and Chow Ga), anyway, I think as the Hakka spread
through Fujian and the Liangguang (Guangdong & Guangxi), many branches evolved
(I think I've heard of Hakka snake, Iron Cow, and others as well?) Hakka boxing was
also, according to some accounts, present on the Red Junks during the Taiping uprising
(Taiping itself being Hakka led), leading to potential influence on the development of
Wing Chun Kuen. I'd heard Chung Lai-Chuen studied Lung Ying and that some say
he created Bak Mei as a streamlining of that. On Hut Yee Sao (Beggar's Fist), I've
heard that might have been a more individualistic thing, combing whatever a certain
wanderer would pick up from the extent Southern systems, Hakka being one of the major
elements.