BCCMA - UK guys

[Liokault]

Hi

Has any of you Uk guys ever had any thing to do with the BCCMA?

We competed in a tournement held by them this sunday and it was one of the worst experiances of my life!!!

My self and another guy took part in the san shou and both won our weight classes dispite the crap rules crap refing and poor running of the day.

I know this sounds like a bit of a rant but it was a big deal to us as the BCCMA get to decide who represents the UK in the european san shou champion ships in october and will also get to choose who gets to the world championships and may be even the olimpics.

The thing is that even though myself and my class mate won our classes we have both more or less decided to give up the san shou rather than have to deal with the BCCMA again.



I would really like to know if any one else has found the BCCMA to be farsical, poorly organised and down right rude.


P.S I am just talking about the BCCMA organisation here as all the guys i met who were competeing were great.

[NPMantis]

Hey mate,

I was there too (in the crowd). It was my first tournament I have seen, I am probably competing in one in 2 weeks.

The traditional forms were very good, I wasn't very impressed by many of the weapons forms, I guess it was more about looking good than having practical application in that environment though, I did like a 2-sword form a 7* mantis guy did though, it was probably the best. There was one guy that was ok, he wore a pink satin uniform and was very agile.

I didn't rate the sparring to be honest, there was only one guy who kept any composure in the sparring, though I did leave before the end of the mens sparring (the more heavy weight categories). I guess having never been in a tournament though I am not aware of the pressures, nerves, etc. so it's very easy for me to judge without having had the experience.

The one thing that stood out on the day was the lack of sportmanship on the part of some of the people there, especially one school (the large one all dressed entirely in black towards the far end of the hall). I think a lot of the other people in the room noted this too because pretty soon everyone was cheering for whoever was against this school (who did very badly anyway).

The day was badly organised, it started 30 mins late and they were sorting out mats and things until this time. The event wasn't publicised very well and wasn't a very large turnout. I was a bit disappointed - they are supposed to be the main Chinese MA body in the UK and I expected better from them.

Did you have any other thoughts on the day?

[Colin]

Have you ever noticed that out of the miriad of Chinese Master resident within the UK, none of them are actively involved in the running of the BCCMA.

I wonder why...............

[AndyM]

Here's the website......why don't you ask them!

B.C.C.M.A. (http://www.bccma.org.uk/)

Just be sure you have your facts right before you mail them though! :D

[bob10]

I was with the BCCMA for a couple of years, attended some meetings etc etc but in the end I didn't renew my membership when it expired.

A lot of "coaching courses" by one of the main comittee members, also some politics and one or two other things that I didn't care for particularly.

[Liokault]

Found out some more in the last few weeks!!

The 2 guys who are going that i beat are students of the san shou director i.e the guy who picks the team!!

He was also refereing our fights which explaigns some very unsound calls.

Also after a phone call last week to my teacher i was offerd the chance to come to another squad training day ( two days notice) to make up the last place on the squad, but he told them i was not training as i have a cheast infection so why not choose the guy from our club who won the next weight down and also beat one of the guys going even though he was lighter weight class.
This guy is a great fighter and kicks my ass on a regular basis....he has been training in full contact TKD (in a very tough club) from the age of 12 as well as training with us.

The BCCMA san shou directors reson for not picking him.....drum roll.......he walks funny.....he walks with an attitude!!!!!

This guy is an awsome martial artist and the best fighter at the BCCMA national san shou event.

Anyway after that my teacher burnt his bridges with the BCCMA.

Pity as its the bigest CMA association in the UK.






P.S

I read an article about the san shou director who gets to pick the team in combat mag

He was moaning about one of his guys winning the uk san shou event then not getting picked to go to europe!!!!

This was a few years ago but is still up on the BCCMA website. Now he is the guy who picks the team and hes just picking his students!!!!!!

[NPMantis]

OK, after sparring and gloves, headguard, etc. for the first time last night I can see why those guys seemed rubbish, I was knackered within like 10 minutes. Why do we have to wear that crap!?

[Ben Gash]

The BCCMA is a bit of an old boy's club. This is unfortunate as they do choose the team. You can't even complain to the EWUF as the BCCMA Chairman is their president!
Fortunately my Sifu has been the Taiji representative for 5 years, but there are still problems. My Sihing won the Superheavyweight division at the 99 nationals, but a guy he beat went to Hong Kong.
However, I must say that the English CMA scene in general is a bit like that. "Celebrity" instructors such as Alisdair Monteith, Iain Armstrong, Andy Bellamy, Dan Docherty and Peter Warr have way too much influence. It wouldn't be so bad, but have you seen their kung fu? Iain Armstrong looks like a guy with constipation and Parkinson's disease having an epileptic fit!
Like I say, my Sifu has been on the National team for five years and has never once been in a magazine article except for tournament write ups. Maybe it's because he doesn't have a large (and expensive) advert in their classifieds.
As for Chinese Sifu with the BCCMA, They Soon Tan. This is great as we broke away from him in 1997 and he considers us all traitors and his senior students are openly hostile to us.

[Liokault]

The day was badly organised, it started 30 mins late and they were sorting out mats and things until this time. The event wasn't publicised very well and wasn't a very large turnout. I was a bit disappointed - they are supposed to be the main Chinese MA body in the UK and I expected better from them.


If you were just in the crowd then you dont know how badly it was run!!!

At the weight in lots of guys were sent away to reaply and pay 10 more pounds to fight as they were told they had filled their forms out wrong. Then after most guys had gone on the scales and half had been told to pay again it was found that the guy doing the weighing didnt know what he was doing and every one had to get their money back and every one went on the scales again....took like 2 hours i think!!!

Also we were told to get there for before 9am....the weigh in didnt start till after 11am then restarted at about 12.30.

Haveing been told to get there for 9am the fighting didnt start till somthing 2pm!!!

Also at the rule briefing things were totaly missed out....i mean important things such as the fact that to push your oponent out of the (lei tai) area you had to push him cleen and could not be in contact with him as he went out.
Now this is important as you get 3points for a push out and only 1 point for a punch, you also win the round if you push your oponent out 3 times!!!! As i was pushing my oponent out every time we clinched and being told that hes not out i was getting mad.....it was nlt till the end of the round that the ref clariffied the rule.......so i pushed my oponent out 3 times straight off clean and won the round!!!! It shpuld be pointed out that the guy getting pushed out was the refs puple!!!!!

As for the standard of fighting i thought it was very high indeed. Their were very few poor fighters and some were very good.

[phoenix-eye]

Ben

I have no knowledge of Ian Armstrong other than his appearances in Combat. However, bearing in mind your "size of advert" comment - (an occurrence that is increasingly becoming apparent in the UK martial arts press - MAI is just a love in for the editors mates! ) I am interested to hear your views. I have heard similar adverse comments about IA and Nam Yang in general on other threads.

As I said, I have no knowledge of Ian Armstrong in person and cannot disrepect him for this reason. However, I am keen to hear others opinions who have seen him in person.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

[Liokault]

I have met Ian Armstrong several times and have always thought that he was a great guy and a very easy perfetional guy to deal with.

As for his nam yang school i can not comment other than the time one of our guys fought one of his guys. His guy took a pounding getting knocked down/ out several times in the first round but even though he was out classed and was taking a pounding he at no point gave up. I have always thought that this is a good sign.

[Ben Gash]

They're certainly tough fighters, although their wrestling skills are non existent.
Iain Armstrong takes himelf seriously to the point of farce, and is seriously off putting when judging for this reason.
As for his association, they do plenty of forms and tons of weapons, but I just plain don't like their kung fu. Too stiff, too jerky, too sloppy, and they do this ridiculous thing where they tense their neck throughout the entire form, which just makes them look constipated. It's really quite funny to watch.

[dezhen2001]

:)

Hi Colin - haven't seen u post anything for a while... hope life is treating u well mate...

As for Nam Yang... don't know much apart from what's in Combat and seeing then at Seni2001 when my Sigong was also giving a demo... :)
david

[Liokault]

You were at seni 2001?

Then you may well have seen my only ever real defeat in san shou!!!!

I knew i should not have fought that day but the guy who beat me was quite good even though his only move was a duck then rugby tackle off the lei tai!!!!

Still went to 4 rounds though.

[SteveJ]

Ok, you've all had a go at the BCCMA. So let me see if I can answer some of your allegations.

Crap Rules - BCCMA uses the same rules as set out by the International Wushu Federation, with the exception that fights take place of a Lei Tai (a raised platform). The reason the BCCMA excludes this rule is on safety grounds. So if you have been fighting by any other rules and calling it san shou, then I'm afraid it's not.

Badly Publicised Event - *ALL* registered contacts of each member association was notified well in advance of the tournament, who then should have past on the details. In addition the date, details and location of the event was publicised on the BCCMA website since January 2002. Short of writing to every individual member, how else would you suggest the event be publicised? And please keep in mind that it all costs money and at the end of the day the membership would have to cover the costs.

Event Organisation - *NOBODY* is paid in any way to organise events for the BCCMA. All events are organised and run entirely by volunteers for the competitor's benefit. So when an event starts late, (and let's face it 30 minutes is not such a big deal), because mats are still being laid it is possible that the BCCMA event organisers was not allowed access to the hall until first thing at morning.

Chinese Master in the BCCMA - Over the years many Chinese masters have served the BCCMA in many capacities, and to say "none" are actively involved in the running of the BCCMA is widely inaccurate.

Sanshou Director Picking the Team - The San Shou director is responsible for promoting San Shou within the UK, a job that I believe he is doing very well and only recently has been acknowledged by the IWuF, who invited him to referee at the San Shou World Cup along with William Nechet of France, the first two westerners to have done so. However the San Shou Director does not pick the team; this is down the the Head San Shou coach, Bob Weatherall who has successfully coached a San Shou medal winning team at every international event while he was the UK coach from 1988 until 1999 when he retried. Bob has recently been persued to coach the UK san shou team once again a short notice. Bob is not expecting to win medals this year, but he believe he now has a good squad that will achieve medals at next year's world championships. I don't believe the reason given for not being selected was that he "walked funny" but rather that his attitute to squad training was less than acceptable.

Article about the San Shou Director - I don't believe Combat have ever ran an article about the current San Shou director and there definately is not one on the BCCMA web site, so I think you have got the wrong guy. Best check your facts in future.

Why do you have to wear head guards etc. - Simple without rules governing safety equipment the UK Sports Council would not have given any recognition to San Shou as a sport, plus it is what the IWuF dictate as a rule.

Old Boys Club - Everyone serving as a BCCMA Executive or director have been elected by the membership. The BCCMA is not a dictatorship. Having said that there are some executive members that have been serving the BCCMA in one capacity or another since day one. But let me stress again, they have been
elected by the members plus they are not paid for their representation. In addition over the past few year I have seen more new blood elected to positions within the BCCMA than at any other time during my personal involvement with the BCCMA.

Celebrities - Sour Grapes? I have known Alasdair Monteith, Andy Bellamy, Dan Docherty and Peter Warr for several years. They are all businessmen and recognise the importance of having a high profile. I find Alasdair is very passionate about his martial arts and a very good instructor. Andy Bellamy has represented the UK internationally for several years and not only has my respect for his achievements, but also that of is peers from other nations. Dan Docherty, a man that speaks his mind, dominates the UK Martial Arts because he believes what he says and is repected for it. Peter Warr not only takes a leading role within the BCCMA as Vice Chairman but also organises events for the BCCMA. On top of that he sits of the IWuF technical committee ensure the BCCMA has a say at international level. OK, they may be celebrities, but don't you think they deserve the status and have worked hard for it? I do !!!

Complaining to the EWF - Actually the BCCMA Chairman is not EWF President (Another fact wrong). The BCCMA president is the EWF president plus IWuF Vice President. OK granted a bit picky. Fact is that the BCCMA Presidency is a figure-head only and has no offical say or voting power within the BCCMA Executive. The position was created to acknowledge Ray Smith's dedication to Chinese Martial Arts not only within the UK but the rest of the world. secondly, like the BCCMA the EWF and IWuF are greater that one man and have committees of their own made up of representative from many nations. Ray is another example of someone that works hard for the BCCMA with little acknowledgement. Without Ray it is possible that the junior championships would not be as successful as they are, if they where to run at all.

Rules Breifings - Making sure you know the rules is not down to the event organisers or the BCCMA. It is in fact the responsability of your coach to ensure to know the rules. If your coach is unsure, the BCCMA run courses for judging, refereeing and coaching San Shou as well as Tau Lu, courses that are open to all
BCCMA members.

Personal Attacks on Iain Armstrong - Your ignorance of Iain's style of Kung Fu is self evident. Let me remind you of some wise words - "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones". I'm sure I could pick fault with your kung fu as you do with others. This is just another example of a bad attitute.

In short, what I am saying is that if you do not like the way the BCCMA is run, your association has a vote. Use it !!! If you don't like the way judging is done, do the course and become a judge yourself. If you don't like the way events are organised, volunteer for the organising committee. Remember though, there is on financial reward, it's hard work and nobody thanks you for it. I know, I've done it.

Steve Jowett
A NON Executive or Director Member of the BCCMA

P.S. Notice that I'm not afraid to put my real name to this posting.

[dezhen2001]

wow - some good information about the BCCMA in that post :) Actually my school is not part of it, but it's definately good to know to help others... so thanks.

Ian Armstrong: like i said i don't know anything apart from what i rea din Combat and saw at Seni... seems to have a successful school/business so good luck with it! :)

Liokault: i watched a lot of San Shou that day as well as all the other demos... my Sigong (Michael Tse) was giving a demo that night at the show, so i was around backstage as well :)
good luck with your san shou!

david

[Liokault]

Ok here is the article i am refering to......your right its not on the BCCMA web site....that was by the joker Bob Weatherall.

Ploughing through his opponent like a juggernaut Michael Tanner finally had the chance to show what he was capable of at the final selections for the British San Shou (full contact) team to represent Great Britain in Holland.



He has also achieved great competitive success in the Tao Lou routines in recent years and coached members of the British 1999 International Wushu team who competed in Hong Kong.

Mike's versatile abilities are shown in the following list of his achievements in the modern Wushu arena:



# 1998, Qualified as a European San Shou judge



# 1998, Judged at the European Wushu Championships in Athens (San Shou)



# 1999, British National Wushu Championships = 2 gold medals (Nan Dao & Nan Gun), 1 Bronze (Nan Chaun)



# 1999, Selected for British Tao Lou squad



# 2000, European wushu Championships = Selected as a member of the British San shou team for the European wushu Championships in Holland (Rotterdam)



# 2000, San Shou Judge for the European Wushu Championships in Holland.



Having represented Great Britain as a judge instead of competing in the European Championships Mike was privileged as being one of the judges selected to referee the finals of the San Shou competition.



Q = I have heard that you and one of the French judges have been accredited as being the best San Shou referees of the EWF Championship in Holland.

You must be very pleased with such a compliment?



Yes, I am delighted to have gained recognition from the technical committee of the EWF. I felt fortunate that having approved of my ability I was chosen alongside the French judge to referee most of the fights, especially the finals.

It was an honour to be able to represent Britain in such a trusted position.



Q = How did the Ewf technical committee decide upon which officials they felt the most suitable for the demanding job of refereeing the finals, and what makes a good judge in the full contact arena (San Shou)?



I am not sure how they came to this decision.

I feel that to be a good referee one needs to be decisive, impartial, understand the rules well and implement them correctly.



Q = There was apparently a misunderstanding during the finals concerning you and the Armenian flag?



Ah… the Armenian flag incident, I was refereeing the match and after the Armenian fighter won the coach ran up onto the Lay Tai (fighting arena) and threw the flag over the competitor. The head referee asked me to remove the coach and the flag, as it was I took the flag off the competitor and threw it back to the coach. But the coach stepped forward and missed the flag which caused a bit of an incident as the Armenian president was watching and felt that it was an insult to the Armenian people. So went to make a formal apology to the Armenian president and the Armenian people.



Q = Having earned a place on the British San Shou team why did you choose not to enter the Championships as a competitor?



In the final selection for the British team one of the fighters who was chosen as a member of the team had been defeated in both rounds by one of my students Morris Lee. So it was in fact the loser of the fight who was selected to represent our country.

I especially disagreed with this decision on the basis that I felt this competitor was placed in a potentially debilitating situation as he had dislocated his shoulder badly at least three times during the selection.

I am sure that anyone will agree that this is wrong as the safety of the chosen fighter was being neglected, not allowing the shoulder adequate time to recover or re-injuring it so frequently could have ended his competitive career very early.

I am sure that many people have experienced careers shortened when athletes have had to give up their sport prematurely through irresponsible care on their behalf.

In fact the IWF official competition rules state that after the 1st injury the referee should ask the fighter if he is able to continue. If the answer is yes the referee must stop the fight immediately if the injury/dislocation reoccurs. This rule was made for the safety of the competitors so it is beyond me that a national selection should allow such an incidence to occur.



Q = Do you think Britain will do well in the future European and International Championships?



In my opinion unless the BCCMA is able to restructure and make necessary changes to its San Shou policy I think this will be very difficult.



Q = You obviously feel very strongly on this matter, would you like to elaborate the issues concerned clearer?



We received a newsletter from San Shou director informing other schools and ourselves that there would be a competition on the 4th of June.

With this in mind we formed a team to prepare for the fights. This took a lot of time, effort and dedication from both instructors and competitors. Having sent back the forms and the money we were only to find the competition was cancelled at the last moment due to insufficient numbers of competitors from other schools.

Had we been informed of this earlier a lot of disappointment and wasted time organising transport could have been avoided.

This competition was supposedly to serve primarily as one of the selections for the National team to fight in Holland.



Another selection was set in July. Over 20 of our members turned up and although the competition took place it was moved from a sports hall to an open area in a local park.

The sun was intense that day causing the mats to attract the heat blistering many of the fighters' feet.



After this competition it was decided that as many of the more promising fighters were from Southampton the final selection should take place here. The San Shou director agreed this. Once again this was cancelled the day before the fight/selection.

Newcastle members of our school had already left for the fights and John from Cornwall had to return after taking unpaid time off work to come. All went back very disappointed and disheartened.



In the last National competition some of our team left as early as 6 am and 3 am in order to be on time for the 9 am registration. Many of the fighters were looking forward to the opportunity to fight on a competition standard Lay Tai arena and to have the chance to compete for a National title. However the Lay Tai was found to be unsafe having no mats on the outside. This meant that if any fighter were knocked off the arena they would have a nice 3 ft drop to solid ground.



Q = All of the fighters chose not to fight in the end having spent time and effort training to compete. Why did they choose to pull out?



Having turned up on time we had to wait until lunchtime before the doctor turned up to carry out the medical check. One and half-hours after at about 4; 30 the fights had still not taken place. By this time all of the competitors and spectators were becoming very bored and frustrated.

But the main reason we left the competition was that two of our fighters were declared Gold medallists without even having to step onto the arena as there were no fighters in their weight to fight against them, they took this as an insult.

Lee from Newcastle spent 6 hours and £60 on travel to find he would have to fight one of his own students for Gold or Silver.

This was supposed to be a National Championship but the turnout was less than one third of our own schools inter club competitions. Also each time we take part in this type of competition we have lost a few students. They do not only stop competing but often lapse in their training.

Perhaps this is why soo many BCCMA members are reluctant to send their students to compete in these competitions.



This is unfortunate, as the incompetence of a few people has given the BCCMA a bad name. We must do everything within our power to alleviate this problem especially as there are many hard working and highly competent members of the BCCMA who are let down by these few.



Q = What do you think needs to be done?



Most importantly we need to win back support from members so that the high standards and professionalism set previously by the BCCMA can be appreciated.

I hope this will give us the chance to attract the real talent from all corners of Britain

so we can recruit the best to represent the BCCMA and to defend Britain's honour in the San Shou.

BY CHRISTIAN VINE




The key point here is that Mike states that one his students wins but the guy he beats gets picked to go instead of him......So what happens when Mike is in a position to decide who gose to europe? thats right he chooses his own students who lost!!!!



I do fully support your veiw on Ian armstrong though...nice guy.


Also the statment about one competetor not being picked as he was walking funny was a direct quote from a phone call with Mike Tanner followed by Weather all.

Also Bob Weather all being brought in to pick the team was clearly so that Mike Tanner would not look so stupid picking all his own guys to go!!

Christopher Birch

Oxford Wudang Tai Chi Chuan

Just PM me for a phone number if you feel the need.

[AndyM]

Hi Christopher,

So are you saying your problem is with Bob Weatherall, or the BCCMA?

You have witnessed a competition you felt could have been run better, but then haven't we all?

What do you actually know about the BCCMA?

Incidentally I'm not a member.

Andy

[Liokault]

If you want to know more AndyM.

What bothers me is that the BCCMA gets to pick any internationaly recognised teams for events such as the european san shou championships in october.

But they picked guys who didnt even win the uk championships for the team! looks to me like the guy who did the team selection just picked his own puples even though they were well beaten.

I also feel they have been underhand and repeatedly rude to my teacher.

And I am well aware that most tornements are badly run from some veiw points but in this one the san shou did had not even st\rted by the time we were expecting it to finish!!!!

[Ben Gash]

Sour Grapes? I don't think so. I really don't care that much. I get on with what I do. I enjoy it and I've got so much lineage I trip over it. As I'm not a big time competitor the BCCMA doesn't really have that great an effect on my life. Sometimes I find it a little irksome that these guys feel they have a right to act as an oracle of all things kung fu like just because they hold a political position.
McDonalds are well known and commercially successful. You wouldn't buy a cookbook off them.
Ignorant about Iain Armstrongs style? Obviously having trained 5 ancestor white crane in the past , as well as my heavy study of other southern styles I am clearly well in the dark! Anyway, bad body mechanics are bad body mechanics. Would you do a style that made you look like you hadn't opened your bowels for 5 days?
This is my name :confused: :confused: :confused:
I must admit that Andy Bellamy is a very nice guy and does have some very good students. He just got thrown in there because of the memory of some attrocious judging by Iain Armstrong ;)
I must also take back some of what I said about MA magazines. I wrote to Combat detailing my Sifu's achievements and they wrote straight back and wanted to get in touch with him. Reader power really does work!

[AndyM]

Originally posted by Liokault
If you want to know more AndyM.

1/ What bothers me is that the BCCMA gets to pick any internationaly recognised teams for events such as the european san shou championships in october.

2/ But they picked guys who didnt even win the uk championships for the team! looks to me like the guy who did the team selection just picked his own puples even though they were well beaten.

3/ I also feel they have been underhand and repeatedly rude to my teacher.

4/ And I am well aware that most tornements are badly run from some veiw points but in this one the san shou did had not even st\rted by the time we were expecting it to finish!!!!

Hi Christopher

I'll answer your points in sequence.

1/ If that's the system, then you have to work with it. Getting passed over for selection when you have been putting your time into the training stings, like hell, but this happens in every organisation, not just the BCCMA. If you're good, you will get there, but *****ing about it on the web makes you look bad, and will only make it harder for you. Get over it and train harder.

2/ From what you have described,this does sound very unfair, but as I said already, it happens. in every walk of life.

3/ That is for your teacher to address. Has he explained his feelings to you?

4/ That's competitions for you. There isn't much professionalism going around, but that starts with the competitors. It won't change over night, but maybe one day you will be a coach or a referee. Learn and remember.

Patience Grasshopper

Andy

[Liokault]

1/ If that's the system, then you have to work with it. Getting passed over for selection when you have been putting your time into the training stings, like hell, but this happens in every organisation, not just the BCCMA. If you're good, you will get there, but *****ing about it on the web makes you look bad, and will only make it harder for you. Get over it and train harder.


No Im finished with the BCCMA. It would not matter how hard i train unless i train with Mike Tanner.....and i have no intention of that.

I will continue to train and compete in San Shou but I will only be entering tornements from Barbera Antonionis series. Now she knows how to put together a great san shou night


Great UK san shou (http://www.sanshou.co.uk/)

[SteveJ]

Face, nose and spite come to mind. By the way Scotland Lau Gar have members on the San Shou team. I don't think they are represented on either the BCCMA Executive or director planels.

[Liokault]

If your club have guys in the san shou team (well done BTW) the chances are its because mike tanner has no pupils in that weight class.

And its not a nose face spite situation as i never really wanted to get involved with the BCCMA in the first place but as my teacher thought it was a good idea i did it.
So i feel that im not missing anything by giveing them a miss now.




BTW if you have guys interested in san shou go to the web site i posted above as barbera holds very good san shou tornements. they really feel like an event rather than just another sparring match (assumeing that you have never been to any).

[SteveJ]

I've been to many san shou tournaments including european and world championships and believe me the fighters at european and worlds are completely in another class.

[Liokault]

Yep i agree that the european and world champion ship level san shou guys are indeed in another class.

I recently watched a tape of a world champion ship and All of the guys on it were out standing to say the least.

I just wish that more guys would start to compete in san shou in the UK so that we can really start to compete on a world level. I really do not think that the BCCMA is helping san shou in the UK.

I also wish that people would start to apreciate san shou as a real skill and as a spectator sport!! Its much more interesting to watch (when done well and i accept that it is rarly done well
:( ) than 2 guys in jimjams hugging on the floor for half an hour:D

[Colin]

A couple of points i'd like to make.

I too wish that there were more people involved in San Shou in the UK, but there are hardly any decent trainers around.

" the Europeans are in a different league".
As above... there are so few decent coaches around.
Surely it is the fault of the British San Shou coach and the national governing body, that British fighters can't compete with the europeans.
British fighters kick euro ass in semi-contact and full contact KB because they have experienced coaches that often used to fight themselves, whereas San Shou has business men and politicians teaching the san shou team.

[Souljah]

Sorry to interrupt the squabble.....:D:D
where are these tourneys being held?


I feel like im missing out, I'd like to come and see and perhaps after a while take part.

Any London events?

[Liokault]

Hey souljah i have not forgoten about you.


BCCMA (http://www.bccma.com/)

Go to the events page and there are 3 days of san shou.

The first one is the southern regional. It dont say that san shou but there probably will be. Also its in about 3 months ....just right to start training now.

[Souljah]

thanks lio

lol, I dont think I'll enter just yet, i'd like to go there and see how it is first (think I said this before). I've never been to any MA's competitions so it will be a new one for me.....

Do you have to be signed with BCCMA to participate.....sorry, bit of a noob question.

Are these events any good?
oh no wait I can just read up and find out
I've only seen tapes of some TKD tourneys, but I imagine the layout will be similar.
My teacher used to take alot of our advanced students to compete, partial success.....had one guy who was european k.boxing champ for a while. (wooooooooo- i bet your saying...lol)

[Souljah]

jus read your profile lio, UK champ..... nice one bro, so i'll know who you are if I come and watch when they announce "the reigning champion" or something like that
:D :D :D
soul

[Liokault]

Hey guy.


You do need to be a member of the BCCMA to enter their events and if you read my posts about the BCCMA you will understand why I am kicking my self for encouraging you to join.......its probably worth it in the long run though if you are interested in San Shou. They also offer very good member to member insurance.



Are the events any good?

Well its a mixed bag. the BCCMA events are not as much fun as Barbaras events but the fighters tend to be a bit better and you get more than one fight if you win.

The reason that the guys who fight in the BCCMA events are a bit better is that they mostly train just for san shou where in the San Shou UK events it tends to be kick boxers Thia boxers kung fu guys and so on fighting under San Shou rules. Also Barbara usea a (really cool) lei tai.




If your club is only used to kick boxing events get used to the idea of a format that encourages clinches and throws (at the northern regional a friend from my club dislocated his shoulder but still managed to try 17 more throws about 12 of which were clean in 2 rounds) and heavely punishes you if you leave the fighting area.


Most important of all is stamina.....get your stamina up.

[Liokault]

LOL National champ.....I only had to beat 2 guys to get the title lol(ok ok i got a buy in the first round)


Whats your weight class souljah?

If you are really interested in san shou a good guy for u to talk to would be Neil Rosiak of Renaissance School of Martial Arts. He has some good guys who fight in san shou and could help you a lot. Hes also in london

[Souljah]

im not sure about training specifically for san shou, what exactly is it btw, I know its a sort of semi full contact fighting but can you jus brief me? (sorry I know you've probably done this before)

My weight class - im 73kgs/160lbs, dunno what 'class' that goes under

[Liokault]

im not sure about training specifically for san shou, what exactly is it btw, I know its a sort of semi full contact fighting but can you jus brief me? (sorry I know you've probably done this before)


Ok san shou (in the UK at least) is a full contact format.

Basic rules are that you can punch kick and throw.

Most of the time you can score points by forcing your oponent off the Lei Tai (raised fighting platform) or out of the fighting area.

Offton repeated contact to the head is dis-alowed so you can only throw a maximum of 3 consecutive blows to the head befor you have to change target or do somthing else. Although all san shou that I have fought in has had this rule only the events held by the BCCMA ever up held it during fighting.





Also if you want to fight in san shou yoy really need to train for it..........I dont mean that you should change your stlye but that you should learn whts going to happen and just how much fitness you would need.



Anyway its a lot of fun and good experiance.

BTW Dan Docherty holds an event every year with some san shou.....its normaly in April and is probably the best place to start as its san shou at the lowest level.



weight classes are split in to 5kg groups....so you would be 70-75kg.....nice weight class but if your oponent is called Vince DONT fight him lol.