Triads, ancestors, Shaolin and kung fu

[northstar]

The story of the Southern Shaolin temple is central to both the triads and many southern CMAs. For example, in triad mythology, the Five Ancestors are considered the founders of the triads. However, a different set of names is usually given than in the MA version (with Ng Mui, Baak Mei et c). Anybody out there with any thoughts on this?
Skimming a couple of books on the triads I've made these notes which you might find interesting:
- the eldest reference (1828 I think) to THE Southern Shaolin temple (not Shaolin as a generic for a Chan temple) locates it in Gansu province
- Local records of Quanzhou seems to support the existence of a Shaolin temple with a martial tradition
- The martial tradition of the SST was upheld by the Choi (Cai) family

This is from B.J. ter Haar's "Rituals and Mythology of the Chinese Triads".

[Kung Lek]

Hi-

It is more likely that Shaolin was involved with the forming of some "Tongs".

A Tong is different from a Triad in many ways, especially in context to today's usage.

There were Tongs which were community organizations that were focused on the betterment of the community and it's people.

Later in time, some tongs became corrupt and involved as criminal organizations to some degree.

There are also "Family Societies" which were created in the americas and elsewhere as a way that people who held the same surname could meet and pool money so that the whole would have a resource for things like housing, and other needs.

Triads now, are primarily criminal orgs that have littel resemblance to the earlier Tongs.

peace

Kung Lek

[Je Lei Sifu]

If there is any differents, Gee Sin Sim Si, Ng Mui, Fong Da Duk, Mui Hin, and Bak Mei where know as the Five Elders of Siu Lum. Other records list (Potongwa Dialect) Fang Ta Hung, Hu Te Ti, Tsai Te Chung, Ma Chao Hsing and Li Shi Kai as the Five Ancestors of Siu Lum.

Maybe someone else on this board can enlighten you more than I.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu :cool:

The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger

[CPS]

Hi,

Indeed there's a difference in the Five Ancestors.

The five ancestors of the Hung League are:
Fang Dahong, Ma Chaoxing, Hu Dedi and Li Shikai.

One generation later (when the monastery was destroyed again) there were the Five Elders of Shaolin (sometimes called the Five Ancestors too). They were: Zhi San (Gee Sim), Bai Mei, Feng Daode and Miao Xian.

Charris

[FIRE HAWK]

Is Li Shikai a woman or a nun the name sounds similar to Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist nun named Leow Fah Shihh Koo are they the same person.

[Turiyan]

There are some odditys about the whole thing. I wont go into a tirade because I should save the energy for my homepage.

What I find interesting is this:

Both western (spurious) freemasonry and triad myths credit the warrior nomads of central asia for building the babel temple.

Western freemasonry says that all life spread from central asia. Some went east, and some went west. True. We are talking pre-flood/deluge stuff here.

This means the original proto race and language were of one. The altaic group and those belonging to the genotype. Including siberians, eskimo's, ect. All basiclly of the same similar tongue and shamanistic tradition.

The tower of babel was crowned with quartz crystal and this suggests that it was used as a kind of communications tower.

This is what brought the other raced to earth (spacecraft) resulted in the comfounding of languages.

The tower was built post-flood as a punishment to "god" and the "angels" for the deluge. It reprsents all form and manner of evil, corruption and perversion.

Its three sides represent: The dragon, The Leviathan (cthulu) and The false prophet(god-man).

The storys of fish people and subterrenian origins is common amongst the eskimos, siberians and non-agricultural nomadic races of central asia.

The beast with 7 heads of revelations speaks of the image of cthulu. An alien race that was supposed to arrive in this solar system on the 13th planet, that is actually some kind of giant spacecraft.

Weird stuff, yes, but all within the canon of the verses of religons.

Genesis says that 13 is the number of rebellion. There were originally 13 months, and 13 planets. Each month had 28 days. 13 was considered unlucky, which seems almost universal.

However, 13 is comprised of 1 and 0, the binary set. The babelonians INVENTED duality. Not the chinese. And the number 3, always refers to the triangle pointing up, which represents the rebellion against heaven (god and angels [aliens])

In numerology, you cant go past 9. Because 0 means nothing. Any number past 9 is just a combination of the "real" and "pure" numbers 1-9.

The binary set forms a binary tree which lays out a 5-10-85 percent dichotomy. Which forms the triangle.

The idea of the end times if false. "I am alpha and omega, the beginning and end". Alpha and Omega are the first and last words of the greek alphabet. Meaning both revelations and genesis speak of the beginning.

Which makes sense when you combine both books. Revelations: War in heaven. Star falls from heaven. Beast of the sea. Genesis: Water came before land and no land animals existed before land.

Now, the character for the hun races, is Hsiung or Xiong with a flat tone. Represented by a U and a X in the middle. "Crossed pit". Refering to the Gate holding back the people of Gog from the land of Magog.

The astral gate is said to only hold back the hideous physical body, not the spirit. They are able to bypass the gate by taking human form on earth. Thus "demonicly possessed".

The five elders: Wasnt the original "triad" the flower society? The five petals represented china's five MINORITYS (Including the Xiong nu). Not including the Mao races (yuens).

And in yue dialects, Xiong is pronounced HUNG. Coincidence?

Like in tibetan buddhism. Freemasonry has two forms. White or spurious (western) freemasonry, which is low on the caste scale. And those that pray to the dark. The so-called dark templar.

They occupy the 5% of the pyramid, which is always represented in the image of the babel temple, as unfinished. Because they are unknown or unseen.

In otherwords. These forms of cult were created to enslave the stupid and ignorant. Which supports the veddic caste principle of the "sheep caste" to be herded (pharisees).

How can you overthrow darkness, when they are your hierarchy?

There was no Pan china before kubilai khan. An institution supported by mao's cultural revolution and ironiclly enough, Sun yat sen. A freemason.

The people of Wu still rule south china. Even hong kong. In fact, I met a direct decendant of Atilla the hun, immigrated to the USA. Her boyfriend is shanghainese (wu), a son of a hong kong mayors widow.

I just felt all that was situationally appropriate.

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan

The REAL taichi:
http://www.wfdesign.com/tc/
http://www.wustyle.com/108.html

Chinese military forum:
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[CPS]

Fire Hawk,
I don't know. I know the Cantonese is Lei Sikhoi.

For more info about this, see www.hungga.net (http://www.hungga.net)
- Legends & History; Non-Wong Fei Hung Hungga
- Download Section; Download of Ng Ho, Southern Siulam - When legends die ...

[Prairie]

Grooviness :) I think you need to give Art Bell a phone call

[northstar]

There are especially some striking connections to Hung Gar mythology. For example, early secret societies also used the name of the first Ming emperor Hongwu/Hung-mou; Guangdong triad members called themselves members of the Hung family (ie Hung Ga); both used the "Fan Qing, Fu Ming/Faan Ching, Fuk Ming" slogan.
As for ancestors (the 5) there are two sets (at least) in triad mytholgy (nowadays mostly gone, we're talking late 19th century):
The first 5, the survivors from Shaolin: Choi Tak-chung, Fong Tai-hung, Ma Chiu-hing, Wu Tak-tai and Lei Sik-hoi. In this account, Ma Ning-yee (Ma Chat) breaks the holy lamp and betrays the temple (No mention of Baak Mei or Ng Mui the nun). The second five were former Ming officials who joined with the Shaolin survivors, the officials were: Ng Tin-sing, Hung Tai-shui, To Pit-tat, Lei Sik-tai and Lam Wing-chiu.

Considering the spread of secret societies in Southern China a few hundred years ago it would indeed be strange if many of the famous kung fu masters were not members. Of course, the triads/tongs (no fixed terminology...) nowadays are a quite different matter.