What makes you think your style is "complete?"

[Merryprankster]

I see that tossed around a lot here--so somebody tell me why these things we do (or don't do) are "complete" styles...

[HuangKaiVun]

And why should it matter?

[Merryprankster]

Beats the hell out of me. Seems awfully important to a lot of people here, so I thought I'd ask the question.

Call it intellectual curiosity. God forbid we explore concepts on a forum ;)

[HuangKaiVun]

It beats the hell out of me too. Seems awfully UNimportant to a lot of people here, so I thought I'd answer the question.

Call it intellectual understanding. God forbid we explore concepts on a forum :(

[Merryprankster]

Sounds like we're more in agreeance than not :)

[Shaolindynasty]

To me it should contain all the 4 basic types of techniques Ti(legs), Da(upper body strikes), shuai (wrestleing) and na (joint locks. That just a complete empty hand style. Of course to me a complete system implies they do sparring, drills, etc. also

Most people have more to add i'm sure.

[Water Dragon]

To me, it means you are prepared to deal with the threats that may appear within your environment.

[Merryprankster]

Now now WD--stop being reasonable.

[Gabriel]

In my view, a complete system has four things: (Warning Pinyin)

Ti (Kicking), Da (Hand Striking), Shuai (wrestling), and Na (Qin Na or joint locks ect.)

My system addresses all these things in a lesser or greater degree by the time we get to the third year or so. We don't address grappling the same way a BJJer would, but address it we do, in our own, fluid, push hands kind of way. Na is a very effective tool in a conflict. In PM we evolve from learning larger circles, to learning smaller circles. So a excellent PM player can hardly be followed, cause his circles get smaller and smaller, until he just flicks his wrist or twists a certain way, and the tide of conflict switches noticebly. I also believe a complete system has a certain spiritual element, but I'll leave that out, as many will find this a laughable notion. Mobility and being rooted are two factors which I also believe are important. In my practice, I try to root myself when I'm striking and defending, but also keep myself mobile and fluid. This is my simple concept of a complet system.

[dre]

If any style is complete, why are people always running around making up new ones?

[Gabriel]

LMAO SD :p

Wrote what I wrote dam mit!

I hate that! :mad:


:D

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by dre
If any style is complete, why are people always running around making up new ones?

Because environment and the percepted needs to deal with said environment keep changing. Imagine how much fun the Shaolin Monks would've had with 9 mm pistols.

[dre]

Aye, you are correct.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I think my style is complete because my hair stylist told me it was.

[Merryprankster]

Monkey Slap Too--

Toupees aren't the same as hair styles.

:D

[MonkeySlap Too]

What about mirkins?

[Black Jack]

Would that be pork chop sideburns and a mullet.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Black Jack
Would that be pork chop sideburns and a mullet.

How many time do I have to inform you guys that Royal Dragon got his hair cut? sheesh

[Merryprankster]

Welcome to the KF Otherground! :)

[Former castleva]

If we go deeper,to it...does such style exist? Naah...nope.
As previously noted,covering every single area of combat would be good.As also previously noticed,ancient martial ways can be stopped by pull of the trigger,so should that be included?
Of course,mental side should also be remembered,as much as striking.

[old jong]

...Is an impossibility because it would not be a style anymore! ;)What makes a style a style is it's bondaries. We can only add things from other styles to our repertoire. Or we can choose to stay incomplete and sharpen our incomple style to the highter level possible.
I know that I don't practice a "complete" style because it doe's not include ground grappling,high kicks and many other things I can't think about but,I know it can be dam_n effective specially if I'm ****ed off or if my coffee was bad in the morning! ;)

[Chang Style Novice]

My style is too old to be complete, it is merely compleat.:D

[guohuen]

My style is compleat and I have no hemoroids. Therefore I am a compleat and perfect arsehole.:D

[Dark Knight]

A complete sytem is going to be a difficult definition. A lot of questions have to be asked.

1. What is the criteria? Is it against armed or unarmed? Will it cover firearms or is that not part of the concern. What about weapons, should knife training be part of it, in the street a knife can make a difference.

2. What is self defense? Is it getting away? Is it taking down and finishing off an attacker? Is it to stop many attackers and still be standing or to just get away?

3. What are the goals of the style? Is it fighting? Competition? Health? Enjoyment? Personal growth?

I know this guy who teaches TKD, he has over 600 students. His goal is to motivate the kids to succeed in school and then later in life. Physical heath is second and self defense is later. If your kid went to Harvard directly due to his classes and training, but couldnt defend himself, would you be OK with it? Or would you rather have a badass fighter kid who didnt do as well?

4. Is the long term goals of the system to be complex and growing or quick and effective. A kickboxer has limited knowledge, but what he knows works extremely well. Compared to learning new indepth complex theories over the next 20 years, even though they may or may not work for you.

Please add other factors you feel are important in a style.

[Black Jack]

What is a mirkin?????

Is that like some fany comb over?

[guohuen]

ROTFLMAO at a fanny comb over! My first day off in 15 days!
Quoting James Brown " I feel good!".

[No_Know]

Complete system theoretically, Was a reference to havig solo practice, weapons, and philosophy. I considered it a reference to Chinese Kung-Fu systems.

All fighting Kung-Fus dealt with grappling and striking. And as far as ground fighting, there was no distinction because, what was the principle was, Do your best, using your environment within the restrictions of your goals within your moral tolerances/ethics/mental training (conditioning). So (needle and thread), act accordingly where ever the fight might get to.


As far as Shao-Lin (monks) and 9 mm ...I am not an authorized spokesperson; such a they would have sensed to intention and avoided being present. Or prepared to have things nearby to hide behind. Or throw to damage the attacker's shooting hand. Or be close enough to avoid a shot before Chin-na-ing the gun arm. Or unbalancing the attacker. Or confronted the intent and convinced the attacker to not attack...

If not Prevention, then Preperation.--Ernie Moore Jr. :~>

[Dark Knight]

such as they would have sensed to intention and avoided being present or prepared to have things nearby to hide behind or throw to damage the attacker's shooting hand or be close enough to avoid a shot before Chin-na-ing the gun arm or unbalancing the attacker or confronted the intent and convinced the attacker to not attack...

Do you think an unarmed Monk would have a better chance against a gun than a highly trained fighter in any system?

[Former castleva]

If there would be some distance,so that disarming would not come to play,it would be too deadly.
And why would one let someone to disarm? That seems to happen in wishful movies,but changes would be slim in reality (knowing that there is no possibility to solve the conflict with mental gifts,not to mention that it would be rare to take place at all,but of course,that never was the point) however,a try could not be necessarily worthless.
Just my foot between the door and the wall.

;)

[Water Dragon]

I was referring to the monks HAVING guns

[Dark Knight]

sorry, my misinterpretation:D

[Ryu]

Because the details of threats and fighting evolve and change, there really can't be a "complete" style in that sense. To have a "complete" style is somewhat .... unrealistic if you think "complete" means you can and have trained to deal with anything. There's just far too many variables in the world... and in about 10 years we'll have completely different variables.
The universiality of threats and defense is always there (whether today or ancient China, etc.) however the ways to deal with those threats constantly change. "Complete" seems to imply something that is "finished." To me, my martial art and training will (hopefully) never be "finished."

Though if you're asking what is generally accepted as being "ready" for a lot of the things out in the world today... I'd say street savvy, de-escalation skills, strategic semantics and the ability to mask emotions, weapon skills that include common tools like knives, guns, staffs, sticks, chains, and OC spray, even stun guns, and have a good athletic base in punching, kicking, clinching, and groundfighting that you hone with good drills, and contact sparring.

Ryu

[No_Know]

You mean you think, ""Complete" seems to imply something that is "finished."?"

Because, complete Could mean Comprehensive. Which could take into consideration that there Are variables. Which is why Chinese Kung-Fu holds Concepts over techniques (stereo-type). A concept can yield techniques in an unconsidered situation.



For those of you not seeing beyond your nose...

Training in Kung-Fu is layered because one must be conditioned to be competent in things even unthought of.

Many people are untrained~ Their techniques are similar. Some prefer to study these common respone tactics and think that they can handle a lot because they study the most likely situation attacks or the most common attacks. For even these who are competent, it would be the situations in which you do not train, the attacks you have not practiced against that would get you dead or merely more hurt.

[No_Know]

"Do you think an unarmed Monk would have a better chance against a gun than a highly trained fighter in any system?"

Chinese monks, much less, or as much as, European monks have been highly trained fighters, theoretically. At least trained to be highly competent in certain situations (no, they don't necessarilly brag about it). And for this situation they could stand an equal chance in that, one should not try to beat a gun~. The house always wins, and you are a visitor in the situation of a loaded gun pointed.

Also, a Monk Would have a better chance against a gun than a highly trained fighter in any system, in that they are reserved and will meet death with a smile because they yearn to see that unknown place. Or they are not bound to this life. They don't all Want to die but their living allows them to not mind.

A Monk might have a worse chance against a gun than a highly trained fighter in any system because he would be concerned with the safety of the others in danger or the would-be shootist and try to defuse the tension. This might make the monk a focus for the irritated person with the gun. (You don't necessarilliy pull out a gun unless you are some kind of irritated)...

There's another factor that might not always be considered. Not Art. Not Artist. But, Moment. And Moment might have more factors than can be comprehensiblly comprehensible. Situations can go either way, regardless of their likeliness. Humility...

[David Jamieson]

if your style only contains fighting theory, principle and application, it cannot be considered "complete" in the Kung Fu sense of "complete".

kungfu affects and effects the whole being organically and ones knowledge base as well.

Philosophy is good to have in order to clarify theory, principles and applications of the fighting aspects of the art. As well as to clarify at which point one would use the fighting aspects of the art.

The inclusion of healing arts has not been mentioned as well as anatomy knowledge. These two things are key to a more whole understanding of not only yourself, but of humanity in general.

It is in adherence with the Shaolin way to understand that if you are able to break a limb, then to be truly in tune with the tao, and to be a compassionate person, then you should be able to heal that limb you have broken.

If your style has yin, to bring balance to all the yang, then it can be considered complete. Mere fighting is the bottom of the ladder imho.

peace

[Fu-Pow]

Amen Kung Lek!!!! Spoken like a true disciple of Shaolin.

[mantis108]

Wow, Ryu, that's highly reminiscent of Buddhist or Taoist thoughts. Impressive! :)

Mantis108

[guohuen]

I see No_Know is a aware of some of Europe's best boxers, the Jesuits.

[LiteBlu]

There is no complete martial art.

The only way to become as complete a fighter as you can be is to cross train.

[rogue]

Let's say you cross train in a striking art, a grappling art and a ground fighting art. How much of each would it take to make your style "complete"?