difference between JJJ and BJJ?

[Shaolindynasty]

Is there really any difference? When i was in brazil they reffered to it all as JJ wheter brazillian or japanese in origin. What is the difference in training methods.

[Merryprankster]

JJJ of various schools have strikes and throws and grappling and what not.

BJJ is primarily highly refined groundwork.

Not having trained in JJJ, I can't speak to training methods. Dark Knight might have more info.

It's called BJJ in the US to distinguish it from JJJ. I would imagine that's not such a problem in Brazil :)

[Shaolindynasty]

Does JJJ have allot of groundwork?

[dre]

The difference is probably that the JJJ people charge about half what the BJJ people do.

[Merryprankster]

Shaolin--

JJJ CAN have a lot of groundwork, but the bottom line is that you get good at what you train at, and BJJers spend the vast majority of their time on the ground.

And they are usually pretty **** expensive, unfortunately. It's a "new" art for one, and two, a lot of people don't like to train that hard so you really can't charge the TKD rate :)

[dre]

Merry, is there a way to send you a PM?

[Merryprankster]

Let me enable it....

[Merryprankster]

Dre,

Done. We'll see if it works.

[Former castleva]

A lot of BJJ is taken from judo (this is how it was presented to me,not to mention judo was developed from jujitsu,even though jujutsu is more complex) JJ has more to it,while BJJ has grappling (much groundwork)
Looking at the names also solves something:
Brazilian jiu-jitsu: (jiu-jitsu is kind of a loose,familiar name for JJ)
Jujitsu/jujutsu:Traditional jujitsu can also be called "jiu-jitsu",but jujitsu/jujutsu is more like correct,traditional (japanese) and shall be called that not to confuse it with Brazilian juj...JIU-JITSU!!!:o ;) :D

[Dark Knight]

BJJ specializes on the ground work more than JJJ. The locks and submissions in BJJ are in JJJ, but JJJ does not work on the ground control as much.

JJJ has a full array of strikes and throws. Their weakest point is that most do not train hard enough in striking. If you were to see a good JJJ guy do techniques you would prob think he is doing something very similar to what you presently do, (with the exception of exceptional throws) The handwork is not as fluid and complex as Kenpo or JKD, but still effective.

About 80% of fighting in JJJ is done standing, but that may mean the fighter is standing over the body of the guy he threw and is now applying a lock from the standing position.

As we know Judo came from JJJ, GJJ came from Judo. You will see the same locks in all three, actually there are many locks and throws in JJJ that are not in Judo because of the way the style is tought for competition.

BUT this makes a great point, its not what you know but how well you know it. If GJJ came from Judo why cant they compete against Judo in a Judo forum. because of specialization, just as the locks came from Judo but the GJJ specialized on the ground work to dominate.

Each style is effective, just in different ways.

I got involved with JJJ after I had become a 5th in Kempo. It works very well with the information I had already.

Go to www.usjujitsu.net and order the world championship. The 1998 and 2000 are available. The 2002 will be available soon. It gives you an idea of what JJJ looks like. It a tournament so the techniques are pre araanged, but its a lesson on its own. Its $20.00 and worth the investment.
You can see how it will work breaking a persons leg and being able to come up and be ready to take out his buddy.

(I reccomend the 1998 its laid out better)

If you could see good people doing JJJ (there are alot of bad ones out there just like every style) you would say thats what a street fighting style looks like.

But keep in mind Judo and BJJ has proven themselves.


BTW I enjoy grappling and wrestling alot for the pure fact of I enjoy it. But thats not my primary method of fighting.

[shinbushi]

E-budo: koryu bujutsu: jujutsu: BJJ vs. JJJ (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217)

[Dark Knight]

I grabbed this from that forum and thought it was pretty good

"A common misconception being made here is the assumption that most classical Nihon jujutsu systems were orginally empty hand disciplines which focused much of their attention on newaza. This is historically incorrect. Most classical jujutsu systems employed a variety of weapons in their training. During the Edo period many of these systems adjusted their focus and slowly discarded the weapon applications and waza. We in the Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin ryu however still train in the offensive tactics of weapon use which includes concealment in addition to taijutsu and weapons defense against weapons. The incorrect assumption that jujutsu was originally a weaponless art is a result of unintentional misinformation common around the time of the formation of Judo. Judo’s considerations for safety and it’s ensuing popularity due to it’s inclusion in the Olympic Games led Judo to become the defacto representative of historic Nihon Jujutsu in the minds of the public. Given the publics historical ignorance we should not be surprised that Brazilian Jujutsu has now taken Judo’s place in this regard.

Another misconception is that Japanese Jujutsu systems historically employed only rudimentary striking techniques and was unsophisticated when compared to an art like karate. Classical Shindo Yoshin ryu is noted for it's atemi heavy curriculum including kyusho ate. In fact the late Takamura Yukiyoshi Sensei's ability to employ effective atemi had to be seen and felt to be fully appreciated. He often included devestating head butts as part of techniques intended as counters to virtually any attack. At one seminar I attended in 1989, Takamura Sensei knocked a rather persistent Okinawan “hard ki” stylist cold as a wedge with one of his frightening head butts. For all this gentlemans talk of hard "ki", in a more realistic situation without the opportunity to set up or prepare himself, the Okinawan “ki” stylist went down like a sack of bricks.

While I personally respect and admire the Gracie family and Brazilian Jujutsu, comparison between the two is tricky because they succeed in different environments for different reasons. Remember that the psychological and technical fundamentals of conflict that exist in a street confrontation are completely different from that of a ring fight. It is in the street against a possible weapon ( while possibly secreting your own weapon ) that traditional or classical Japanese Jujutsu will show it strengths. But, only then if your dojo/sensei also addresses the challenge of training you to an intensity level that induces chemical stress which simulates a genuine self defense situation. This is an absolute must! You see, teaching methodology is where Brazilian Jujutsu and sport Judo surpass most traditional / Japanese Jujutsu systems taught today. Brazilian Jujutsu and Judo students train to fight and win in a genuine contest of skill, will and endurance while most traditional Japanese Jujutsu students train not to fight, but for fun. You take your training a lot more seriously when you KNOW for sure that conflict is inevitable and that it WILL HAPPEN. Alternately most classical students of all martial arts train for someday instead of today with the hope or gamble that “someday” will never really come to pass. Thats a dangerous gamble and not the attitude of a serious martial artist. Thats the attitude of someone playing at martial arts as if they were bowling or playing tennis. If you want your art to work on the street for you, you better train as if your life depends on it because it does. Japanese Jujutsu taught correctly should give the practitioner tools to effectively assess and meet surprise, attack or stalking. I know one jujutsu practitioner who while being stalked by a mugger in a park turned the tables on his stalker and started stalking the stalker. You won’t learn the techniques or mindset this gentleman employed by studying Brazilian Jujutsu because they are of no use in the ring. Be that as it may, I respect and enjoy Brazilian Jujutsu as a modern manifestation of Japanese Jujutsu’s ancient roots. Am I disappointed if the public begins to perceive all Jujutsu as essentially Brazilian Jujutsu. Nope! The persons I desire as students will seek me out because traditional Japanese Jujutsu is what they are looking for.......... and thats a good thing for any sensei.

Toby Threadgill
Soryushin Dojo
Dallas, Texas

[guohuen]

The Ju Jutsu I was taught also has some devestatingly effective thumb strikes.