It's all new to me

[Ghost Dog]

Hey there,
I just started clf there on sunday and I am quite impressed. I spent 3yrs studying tai chi chuan and the whole learning approach is completely new to me. As such, could I field a couple of really stupid questions? First of all, we did this this drill where we kind of blocked eachothers forearm blows three times on each arm (high block, low block, high - and same again on t'other side). This hurt. It hurt a lot (not used to such heavy blocking) and then a bottle of oily-alcohol (I think) stuff was produced which we sprayed on our arms - to ease the pain?
Also, I am pretty worried about my elbows - they really hurt right now. Am I over extending my (vastly swinging) puches.
Thirdly - this chop choi, knuckle thing and doing press ups on them. I couldn't even do this against the wall. I was always taught that these sort of exercises were B A D cos they really mess up you ligaments and give you arthritis when you're older and also block chi.

Did any of you experience these pains when you started?

p.s. clf weapon forms are so sweet - how long on average does it take to start on weapons :D

[Fu-Pow]

Hi Ghost Dog. Welcome to the wonderful world of CLF. Where do you train? Who is your teacher? Just curious. The excercise you did is called Da Sam Sing. I think it just means "Hit 3 times." You hit the inside-top of the forearm blocking down, the inside-top of the forearm blocking up, then you hit the outside-top of the forum blocking down. This is a great excercise for toughening the arms.Most southern styles do some kind of conditioning like this.
How soon you learn weapons depends on your teacher and how hard you work. In our school you start learning the basic staff form as your 6th form. Although the first 4 forms are rather short. :D

[Tsui]

Muscle pain and impact pain from sparring/exercises are one thing, but if you are experiencing pain in joints or between your knuckles or in other ligaments that's something else. Tell your Sifu what you are experiencing and see what he has to say to help. Of course, if you are not having fun then you may want to rethink all together, that goes for anything you do (MA or otherwise). Meantime, go through your Tai CHi form to relax and self diagnose. But (other than muscle/impact pain) never let anyone tell you to "work through the pain" it's not good body mechanics and can do damage in the long run.

[Colin]

As you said, practice against the wall.
With the three knuckle push up don't pull the thumb in too far as you will take too much weight on the corner of the thumb joint.
just try leaning against the wall to get your hands used to the position. then practice on the carpet.
As for single knuckle pushups... They really hurt!

[iron_silk]

Yeah I have heard that depending on the master training can really vary. My clf master only begins with simple basics, horse, and forms training. There wouldn't be any hard training, or toughening, etc...

I am not sure why i mentioned it but thought what the hey...feel like sharing!

[Ben Gash]

Three star knocking hands, don't you just love it! :) We also do a five movement version and that REALLY hurts. At least you're using Jow afterwards (a good sign).
The risk with those sorts of press ups is that you do risk slipping, which could cause ligament damage. However, I have met several people who've done tham incident free for many years.

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

[oldwolf]

Hi sounds like you are keeping your arms locked out on impact damaging the joints, keep them slightly bent, the idea is to condition the arms not the joints, train for effect.
First time I did it my forearms almost doubled in size, nowadays I rarley get a bruise or a contusion as my US cousins would say. Stick at it!

"And the crowd called out for more"

[alecM]

Sam Sing is one of the best forearm conditioning exercises if you can't get access to a wooden dummy however, you should always approach any kind of external body conditioning with caution.

Saying is not boasting at all. These views and words are mine, and do not represent my Sifu or school.

[S.Teebas]

Does CLF avocate the use of force against force?... if not then why do you guy do this arm hitting? I know you say it conditions but against what specifically...egamples please

Thanks.


S.Teebas. :)

[Fu-Pow]

Arm conditioning is utilized because it conditions the muscles, nerves, tendons and bones of the forearm for blocking/striking. This type of conditioning is common to a lot of Southern Styles because not only do we block with the forearm, but we try to inflict damage to the opponents arms (or other body parts) with our forearms. This is especially true in a style like Hung Gar. CLF is less force on force than Hung Gar but we are still a southern style. I'll give you two concrete examples. Our signature "punch" is a Sao Choy or roundhouse punch. It is a long arm strike that follows a 45 degree path downwards. Although you can use the fist to strike, the forearm fits conveniently into the crook of someones neck. Another example is called Chun Lau it is a outward block with the forearm. This is a much softer use of the forearm.

Fu-Pow
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"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

[S.Teebas]

Interesting...
CLF sounds like a very powerful style! I know that movies are rarely a good depiction of a style, but can you recomend any that show good CLF>?

[Fu-Pow]

Actually...despite the popularity of CLF I have seen it very rarely in movies. I'm not sure why? My Sigung had a part in a movie called Duel of the Seven Tigers, it features some CLF but is very limited. Plus, I think you would have a hard time finding it. Another more popular place would be Drunken Master II. There is a scene in the market square where Jackie Chan fights a fish monger. The fish monger uses Choy Lay Fut. They actually refer to it as Cai Li Fo which is another romanization of the Choy Lay Fut. Again...this is a rather short scene. If anyone knows any others please chime in, I would like to know myself..... :D

Fu-Pow
http://makskungfu.com/images/R7star.gif
"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee