How Would You Deal With This Guy?

[Water Dragon]

You have decided to go out to a local club/bar with your friends. It is about 1:30 AM and everyone in the bar is having a good time. Suddenly, you find yourself in a confrontation. A rather large gentleman has decided that he does not like you (for whatever reason) and is trying to start a fight with you. You have attempted to de-escalate the situation, but it is obvious he wants to fight. He is beginning to get very abusive verbally and you are pretty sure that the first blow will be coming fairly soon, though he has not touched you yet.

You have been able to discern the following: The gentleman is approximately 4 inches taller than you and has about a 30 –40 pound weight advantage on you. The gentleman has a shaved head (which may or may not mean anything) and obviously enjoys lifting weights. You think he has about 4-5 friends with him at the bar (but so do you) Since he has been in your face for about 5 minutes now, you can also smell the alcohol on his breath. You have no more information.

How would you respond ?

[Kay k]

i'd kick him in the nackers! that'd drop him. :) sorry, i dont know i'd probly just run away. :) No seroiusly though if i had to, i'd kick him where it hurts. (or maybe knee him depending on how close he was) ...But he wouldn't hit me would he? i'm 5' 4"?!

[ewallace]

you can also smell the alcohol on his breath
This is very important. I don't have time for a in-depth response right now, but I have always felt that a good shot in the stomach is always a great target to deal with a drunk individual. But be sure to get out of the way.

[KnightSabre]

If after all attempts have been made to avoid the fight and I'm convinced it's gonna go down,I would try to take it to the ground,
Obviously if I had no backup and he had 5 mates I would be running and not fighting.

For me I have found that using grappling I've been able to beat much bigger and stronger "untrained" guys easier than with striking.I wouldn't just go for a sub though,I would throw elbows from the mount and go for a choke,I wouldn't want to break an arm or dislocate a shoulder but if my life was threatened I wouldn't have a choice.

ALot of people are gonna say going to the ground is a stupid idea,but under the top senario I think it would be a good strategy,I've used it before succesfully.

Using ground fighting on an untrained fighter I find the fight is over very quickly,he makes a mistake early on like giving his back and I can immediately sink the rear naked,if done propperly it's 4 seconds untill napping.

This is my strategy and I don't think it's the only effective way so I'm not trying to shove BJJ down anyones throats,I would love to hear some of your strategies as well.

Peace :)

[dragontounge2]

I would tell him we are going to take it out side, but first i got to take a sh!t, I would then go to toilet unscrew a piece of pipe from the sink or break a chunk of the toilet. Then I would go outside Wait for his punch move quickly to the side if he throws another block that one but now I would be on his right side ill pull the pipe from my pocket and quickly crush the dull pipe into his throat, and simultaneously crunch his scrotum with my steel toe boot.:eek: Or if I wasnt in the mood for killin I would dodge his first shot crack his knee and get his face with my elbo.

[Kaitain(UK)]

Clearly noone is having any fun at this point so I'd try to leave - if he moved to follow me then I'd bring it to a head in the club rather than take risks outside. If his friends seem hostile and I don't think I can rely on mine then I'll definitely try and leave, talk to the bouncers and ask them to let us out another way or get them to leave first etc. If my friends are reliable or his friends are non-aggressive then I might try involving his friends and calm it down ("none of us want trouble lads, I know he's ****ed but can't you have a word with him" etc)

If I can't avoid it or it's clear that he's going to follow me then:

establish what my trigger is going to be - next time he raises his hands or touches me or even the next time he starts talking smack (if it's clear he's just working himself up to hit me then why wait) - then I'll (Geoff Thompson school of fighting) ask him a dumb question "Didn't we use to play snooker together?" and then hit him with a hook to try and drop him while he's working out what I just asked him. Then play it by ear until the bouncers arrive, if I was winning easily then I'd stop so that his friends are able to make the choice of not fighting. If I don't get a chance to hit first then it's all reaction anyway so I can't comment.

My signature is relevant here :)

[guohuen]

Been there done that. I nodded concommitedly, walked to the other side of the establishment and ignored him. Then I had a long talk with my ego and told it to shut up.

[Royal Dragon]

Throw him on his head!!!!

OR, hit him with the biggest thing you can find...........usually, thats the ground:D

[Kaitain(UK)]

actually I'd move to the other side of the bar and chi blast him and all his mates

[Dark Knight]

If there are witnesses and you strike first you may have legal problems. Be careful.

[Kaitain(UK)]

better to be judged by twelve than carried by six

[scotty1]

Guohen, good one. Probably what I'd try.

I don't think my friends would do too well in a mass rumble to be honest.

I think Kaitan's response is probably best for me as well, so I would not pre-emptively strike. In a 'safe' environment like a club, I would definitely let the guy commit first, esp. with lots of witnesses around.

In short, I would try all possible methods of leaving the scene without fighting, including asking the barman to call me a taxi, forewarning the bouncers "excuse me, this guy is giving me trouble, I want to make it clear I'm not interested in a fight etc."

However, if it kicked off I would rely on pure aggression seeing as he has a size advantage. Hopefully he would think better of continuing when he realised I was hitting him back.

Either way, I would book a taxi to pick me up when I was ready to go home or the club closed, even if I'd managed to de-escalate it without any trouble.

Hopefully I could keep it off the ground. If not I would be going on instinct and adrenaline.

In all seriousness though, god knows what I'd actually do when the butterflies start flying.

[HongKongPhooey]

"Then I had a long talk with my ego and told it to shut up." - Guohuen.

I can relate that. I find I have to wag my finger at mine. :-(

As for the situation, dose he have a drink in his hand, do you, are they full or empty. Where are your mates in relation to his. And as for still talking to him after 5 mins, don't bother, get out way before that.

[Chang Style Novice]

As far as I can tell, the alcohol on his breath means very little in this scenario. We're in a bar! Everyone has alcohol on their breath. As long as he hasn't touched me or made a move to do so, I'm not doing anything to him. I'm going to keep my eye on him, but move close to whatever bouncer/doorman type I can find, while trying to put tables and chairs between us. I'm going to explain that as a county prosecutor I'm not afraid of whatever he's got (a lie, but plausible.) I'm going to have my hands up between me and him, not in a threatening manner, but with palms out as if to give a placating gesture. I'm going to hope like heck my friends are paying attention and ready to move in/dial 911 in case something bad happens. I'm going to watch him very carefully, and if he comes at me empty handed I'm going to go for a clinch and try to sweep him down. If he grabs something and comes at me, I'm going to try and take that arm with both of mine and break it and hope I can eat whatever the other arm throws at me. If he gets something out of his pocket and brings it up, I'm hitting the deck like a sack of potatoes.

At least, I hope I'd be able to think that clearly.

And yeah, phooey is right, five minutes is WAY too long.

Like the taxi idea, too.

[gazza99]

Id buy him a beer, if that doesnt cool him down Id hit him over the head with my empty beer bottle, then proceed to drink his beer.
Gary

[Water Dragon]

I've seen this situation quite a bit. Chances are, the guys gonna fire off something any second. Maybe he won't, but he probably will. I'd say if something gets this far, there's about an 85 % chance you're gonna get jacked.

I'd probably try to brain the guy with a beer bottle or a tight elbow to the dome. With all the people around, a throw is just too risky. Even if you get it, you'll probably knock someone else down with his body. This of course could start a huge fiasco.

I'm real wary of the ground here as well. If the bar is crowded and a fight starts, people might run over both of us trying to get away.

If the altercation continued and people "made room" I would definately go for a throw to finish it. Probably something in a tight circle like a head mop or maybe even a tight neck surround. I suppose if a wall is nearby one could slam him into it, but there's no guarantee on that.

[SanShou Guru]

There are a couple of fun ways out.

1) say "look I can't fight you, I'm on parol from the last time I got into a bar fight."

2) quietly tell you friends to hold you back then go ape sh!t like you are trying to kill the guy. Hopefully your friends will catch on and say things lile "No, not again" and "remember what happend to the last guy" Your friends and/or the bouncers will remove you then you can laugh all the way home.

3) Put you hand down your pants. Pull it out. Take a long whiff a and say "ok I'm ready". I doubt the dude will want to get hit by a stink palm and/or he will think you are a freak and want nothing to do with you.


In truth, most people suck at fighting and all drunks suck at fighting, they really don't want to, those that do, want an easy fight. Pay attention and if you have sparred before no drunk should be able to hit you with their first shot. WHEN they miss grab them and get your balance and keep your head close to their body so he can't slug you and wait for help. If you have daylight get the heck out of there, real fights suck and never end well.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I would ask him if he has health insurance.

When he says 'what?'

I would ask him if it includes dental.

Then I would offer to buy him a drink. And tell him it feels funny when you rub a bald guy's head.

Then I'd ask him if I saw him on the TV news walking in a PRIDE parade.

If he hasn't swung first by this time, I figure I'd be safe and go back to drinking with my friends.

But seriously, if I could not de-escalate the tension, I would seek to confuse him and remove myself from the situation.

I had a similar situation happen to me, and just by looking serious and completely unconcerned, the other guy backed down and went back to his friends, who ALL got up and left the bar. Leaving me and my friends in peace - which was good because a friends mother was with us, and it was another friend whos band was playing. It would have been very rude to fight.

Lesson? Exude confidence. Do not allow yourself to show any fear. Most predators don't understand this, and fear that they may have become the prey. You will need to remain highly alert however, as they may be waiting for you as a pack if they are particularly low minded people. How you conduct yourself AFTER the confrontation is just as important as how you handle the confrontation itself.

The biggest thing is not to have an ego. You are not there to prove 'you can take him', you are there to walk away unharmed and ideally not hurting anyone else. Avoidance is the highest level of skill.

[greendragon]

I would be smiling, knowing that he is just some mother's baby. Then, seeking safety in the heart of danger, would move in VERY close to him (to avoid a sucker punch) and offer to buy him a drink as a hippy such as myself would not want to challenge such a tough guy. At close range he is less of a threat. If he moves with intent i would take him down discretly and as my old biker buddies say "shame on him". Possibly a descending palm to the stomach or if he grabs, a finger break. Remember most bars have video cameras and a good fighter will let the other guy make the first move. I would be cautious though as when i am drinking i find i do a lot of things wrong, even stupid.

[Black Jack]

Some basic ideas since you indicated that any de-esclation methods have failed.

This first aspect is if I have no weapons or improvised weapons around me to hit pre-emptive, to me weapons first, fist last.

First I would have my guard ready for a pre-emptive blow.

Keeping my hands up in a non-threating palms out neutral position or in jack benny stance so my main striking tool is closer to the target yet not gauged as a violent movement, the whole time talking, my own body slightly bladed.

All the while during this verbal judo my eyes would be doing a very fast scan to check his body and hands, seeing if there are any weapons in his hands, a folder clipped onto a pocket, a velcro case hooked on a belt, maybe a odd bulge under his jacket, anything, also trying to note the location of his friends, and any weapons I may see on them, there distance from me and the general enviroment and crowd around me for something I could use to attack with or put distance between ourselves.

From here it could go two ways, my first choice if possible would be to make my way over to the bars bouncers and get them to buy me some time to boogie out the door and into my car for a fast getaway, no bar wants a lawsuit or a maiming on its hands, if that is impossible and according to this situation it seems to be already well past that point as this character was not aware enough nor could he de-esclate the situation long enough to leave the building, a pre-emptive attack may be in order.

Since this is a multiple assaliant situation, my initiation of the attack is even more vital so that I can be in control of the first movement, my goal only to escape, if I wait for my attackers to make the first move I could most likely be hospitalised or killed, because when they do attack to help there friend it will not be one at a time, each in succession, it will be all of them at once and they will leave me very little chance of fighting back.

My pre-emptive would be swift and loud, to psyche out my opponents, aimed for either the eyes, throat, groin, nose or jaw, if I felt my life was in mortal danger due to certain aspects, such as put this in a outside street situation where there may be no help or weapons may be already played in teh bar, then I would feel no hesitation to latch onto the leaders head like a spider and bite off his nose and spit the chunk back at his buddies, not so much for the damage but for the psychological effect.

In this situation to show a pre-emptive technique I might use, my right hand would piston out in a tiger claw/face smash, like a boxers jab or you can picture throwing a baseball from a hands up position, the move is a gross motor movement that strikes the eyes and face at the same time, it is not a rake, it does not even matter if I hit the eyes as the face smash is enough, it could be one finger, three fingers, all fingers, something will get in a eye and its great for stopping forward movement. Used with the pre-emptive tiger claw, is a drop step power generation method, the drop step gets all my weight behind the first blow.

From here I may drive my knee into his sack or launch a knife hand/forearm blow into his carotid or slam a palm heel/chin jab home or a hammer fist into his nose or a wheeling elbow into his jaw or use a y strike on his voice box but that is not really the point the point is that since I made the pre-emptive attack I can make an extra choice or two based on a simple but practical strategy.

After my pre-emptive my sole goal is to make my tactical getaway, not to stand around and beat someone into the ground as his friends jump me, if a target gets in my way I hit and fight relentlessly like a escaped patient from a insane asylum , being single minded in my selection of targets and determination to drop the attacker, grabbing anything as a weapon along the way if possible to help me out.

My other tactical goal is NOT to go to the ground, ever, I must absolutely stay on my feet, if I make the mistake of going to the ground to finish the attacker, the others might descend on me, if knocked to the ground I must fight my way up immediately.

Going to the ground where there are others who can stab, beat or shoot me is IMHO tantamount ot suicide.

The second aspect, I have or can gain access to my own weapons than those would be put into the same strategy above, if I can get one of my folders I will use it like a yarrow in the pre-emptive blow, if the case was worse, like the outside and lone street encounter and if possible to deploy then the blade, if I had mace the same goes, whatever I have.

I would rather talk my way out then ever have to go through this though, I can handle a bruised ego.

Peace.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too


The biggest thing is not to have an ego. You are not there to prove 'you can take him', you are there to walk away unharmed and ideally not hurting anyone else. Avoidance is the highest level of skill.

Now this, I admit, is one of my shortcomings. I'll take the fight rather than be viewed as "weak". I will try to de-escalate things, but if the guys is insistant on fighting, I'll oblige him.

Character flaw? probably.

[apoweyn]

dragontongue2,


Originally posted by dragontounge2
I would tell him we are going to take it out side, but first i got to take a sh!t, I would then go to toilet unscrew a piece of pipe from the sink or break a chunk of the toilet. Then I would go outside Wait for his punch move quickly to the side if he throws another block that one but now I would be on his right side ill pull the pipe from my pocket and quickly crush the dull pipe into his throat, and simultaneously crunch his scrotum with my steel toe boot.:eek: Or if I wasnt in the mood for killin I would dodge his first shot crack his knee and get his face with my elbo.


You'd dismantle a toilet and then KILL the guy with a lead pipe? Not in the mood for killing?

I'm pretty sure that walking away from a conflict, arranging for a weapon, meeting in a prearranged spot, and then bashing the guy in the windpipe constitutes premeditation. I'm no lawyer, but I think you'd have a hard time legitimating that.

I know. I know. Better to be judged by 12 than carried out by six. Better still to just avoid the whole thing. Massaging my own ego for a bit is easier than getting killed or doing time in the pokey.

Besides, I have a feeling that blocking two punches, pulling a piece of toilet out of your pocket, and incapacitating him with it is a bit... simplistic.


Stuart B.

[Ryu]

Hard to say since actually being there dictates what you'd do.
But with all the facts you gave me I would probably hit first from the de-escalation stance. The first strike would come either as a palm heel to the underside of the nose, or a downward hammer fist to the bridge of the nose (trying to break it) I'd immediately follow up with left and right crosses, try to blitz him back or slam his head onto the side of the bar and run. With 5 friends I won't want to go to the ground, but if I did it would be the exact strategy KnightSabre described. Mount, reign down punches and elbows (maybe a few headbutts) get up and get the hell out of there.

Obviously I wouldn't return to that bar either. :) Anyway, to write what you'd do is easy.... to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure what I'd do unless I was actually in the situation. I might be able just to de-escalate it maybe not......

Ryu

[Water Dragon]

I'm assuming you've tried to de-escalate already. The guy's decided he just wants to kick your @ss and you can't change his mind. That's the perception anyway, no way to know for sure of course.

Where ya at in Texas Ryu?

[Ryu]

"Keeping my hands up in a non-threating palms out neutral position or in jack benny stance so my main striking tool is closer to the target yet not gauged as a violent movement, the whole time talking, my own body slightly bladed. "

Black Jack and I seem to be training the same types of things. :)
BJ, have you seen any of Richard Dimitri's or sammy Franco's material?

Ryu

[Ryu]

I'd rather not say exactly. :) (no offense or anything, just don't like giving out too much on the internet.) I'll say that currently I'm close enough to have trained with Carlos Machado, but too far to attend UT ;)

Ryu

[Liokault]

Got into a situation very like this last year.

in a night club with some friends, me and a bud sit down at this table near two pretty young ladies. Next thing this huge young guy sits down next to me and asks if im looking at his sister.

He really wants a fight and this is a club where the bouncers have a bad rep for beating the crap out of any one making trouble weather you started it or not.

Anyway I get chatting to this guy to calm the situation down and as i hate backing down. Turns out hes a marine on leave out with his sister. It gets ugly again at this point where he offers to take me and my friend on both at the same time. I find this funny ( bear in mind he is huge young and massively muscular) and make some jokes at him that he dose not get.

Any way to cut a long story short we chat and turns out hes an ok guy once he realises im not going to fight him or run from him.

My point here is that no hitting or being hit was nessecery.


(All the time I was trying to signal my bud to get round his blind side and whack him with a chair)

[SanShou Guru]

"Diplomacy is saying 'Nice Doggie' while you look for a rock."

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Ryu
I'd rather not say exactly. :) (no offense or anything, just don't like giving out too much on the internet.) I'll say that currently I'm close enough to have trained with Carlos Machado, but too far to attend UT ;)

Ryu

No problem. I'll be in San Antonio/Austin for the last two weeks in July. I'm looking for people to work out with while I'm out there If you're in the area (and interested) shoot me a private message.

[Black Jack]

Ryu,:)

I always thought some of our stuff sounded a tad related. Dimitri has a great site but I have never seen any of his stuuf, I pictured it kinda like the Vunack system or Franco's, I have seen some of Franco's and Peyton Quinns stuff is excellent but I hear Geoff is supposed to be a must.

A lot of those systems strikes are very close, basics, basics, basics, just a few tweaks on certain strikes and principles.

Would you use a jkd straightblast in that situation? The boxing blitz like you mentioned, I think is the best choice, a little slower but more control over your body, my fear in a traditional jkd straight blast would be tripping over something because that move hauls ass, which means I have taken a tumble from it in sparring before, when I became overcommited:D

[Ryu]

WD, I'm not really close to Austin/San Antonio at all, but I'll try to send you a PM tonight with my email address attatched. :)

Black Jack,
I post on Dimitri's forum sometimes. I'm starting to really appreciate his character and knowledge. I have some of Franco's material, and have actually used some of the de-escalation principles (without resorting to fighting) he uses in real life.

I would probably go with the boxing blitz too, or possibly a leg reap or something after the initial pre-emptive. Call me a coward, but I'd like to "hit and run" in a situation like that :D Don't want to take the chance of the guy being a better fighter then me, and finding out that fact while I'm engaged in "battle" with him! :eek:

Ryu

[Black Jack]

Ummmm......the leg reap. I love the old and simple leg reap, been doing that since junior high, thats an all star move that most people who never studied martial arts figure out, a lot of kids in soccer pick up that one early.

Good stuff.

[Former castleva]

i agree with jazza,try to cool him down and buy him a beer or something related,not retarded,what he´s trying to get you into.
Talk to him politely and clearly,ask if you can help him somehow or what his problem is,if it could be solved.You don´t have to save him,just get him on his feet and you and others safe.
If he´s just insulting to cure his depression,ignore him and
leave.
If talk goes brawl,
do what is necessary,something disabling but non-lethal.
Use a controlling technique,like chin-na lock and possibly take him down,keep him at bay and get back-up (bouncer(s),police forces or anything,even including his friends)
Or alternatively stun or knock him out with fine nerve or pressure point strike or manipulation,leaving him disabled,but not necessarily injured.

[Ryu]

I remember having it done to me in a fight when I was about 8 years old tangling with the town bully :D

Ah memories.

Ryu

[Royal Dragon]

Leg reap?

Is this when you kick his knees out from under him with your opposing leg?

Or is it a low round kick to the knees with intent to buckle, not break?

Or is it when you Bagua setp and buckle his knees from behind with the front of your knee?

[Braden]

First things first, check your distance, posture, and 'subliminal guard.' Check your surroundings. I have to make specific disagreement with what greendragon said. Moving in close is a very bad idea.

If he's still talking, the situation can be de-escalated, no matter how angry he looks. You can confuse people with how you act long enough to get away or knock them over and get away. MonkeySlap Too made some comments in this respect which I think are helpfull. Something like "You've got it, lemme put my drink down so I don't spill any kicking your ass" and then just leaving tends to work. Make a positive statement, one who's premise falls into the 'schema' of what the guy expects, and you will control him at least for a second.

[Black Jack]

Royal,

Leg Reap, you know the 5th grade trip, grab the guy and sweep his leg out from under him as you push him forward over your own leg.

[Kristoffer]

I actually don't like that move.. I don't find it that easy to use :D But I love when someone does that coz of that extremly simple counter move:

You just take a step back with the leading leg and twist. He will fly like a bird :D

[Gabriel]

While I agree that a pre-emptive strike from an at eased, placating position would give one a considerable advantage at the outset, I don't necessarily agree with an attack first policy, especially in a bar or similar place.

Here's why: We MA'ists can lose our asses in civil suits. If a MA'ist attacks first, the victim can sue. A buddy of mine is a brown belt in shotokan karate, and he was at a party. Well some guy was trying to crash the party and and the owner of the house didn't want the guy inside. My friend got involved, and stood in the doorway. They stood off for a few moments and the dude tried to push by. My friend head butted him twice and threw him out on his ear. Well, my friend was sued by the crasher! He was charged with using excessive force and had to pay damages to the crasher. So, we have to walk a thin line here, at what point does self defense end, and excessive force begin?

As far as I would deal with the whole bar thang. Wouldn't happen, Im so DANG likeable! :D

Seriously though, I would make sure to have my guard up in a non threatening way, wait for the attack, and react depending on what he does...Not specific enough? ok , if he threw a drunken haymaker, I would probably try to pluck his strike and bin choi (sp?) which is backfist, to his left temple. or, step seven star to avoid, deflect, then sink cat to strike. Or, depending on skill level of said drunk, I might try some Na.if punching at my head, I'd most likely use an upward elbow wrap, or reverse elbow wrap, or if he strikes the abdomen, an outward wrist press.There are several other Na moves to use, but those are the ones Im best at...Of course try to calm him down first..I would make **** sure that people saw he attacked first, so I don't get sued.

Oh, on getting close. Well, thats what we do in Mantis. So there you have it.


"I'll say that currently I'm close enough to have trained with Carlos Machado, but too far to attend UT "

lol..there's UT's all over the great state of Texas bro, that tells nothing at all..but I get the feeling thats what the wink was for. ;). I attended UT Tyler for a while..pretty nice little school.

Gabriel

[greendragon]

Braden, why is closing distance a bad idea? it seems smarter than escalating through conversation, forcing him to act. At close range he can't get a tackle or a punch off. I have used this before with success. Royal, i like your idea, we call that a leg bite. slip your instep inside his instep and drop the knee into his knee. it turns his body away from you when he goes down making it unlikely for him to get off a counter strike. of course as he is going down you might punch him in the back of his head.

[Braden]

Close range is bad simply because you don't have time to respond, and you have less visibility of his body; it's also physically confrontational, which is counter to what you should be trying to do. I wouldn't count on an opponent who is going to give me a big warning at this range by backing up and raising his dukes; I would be worried about the person who will just check me and tear me apart when I'm off-balanced, or worse, the person who is planning to greet my liver with his pocketknife or broken bottle.

[greendragon]

I was thinking that by "sticking" to him i could neutralize any action, especially a knife or bottle attack because he has no room to generate force, putting HIM off balance. anyway, i don't plan on spending time with him, just positioning myself after the thunder but before the lightning (briefly). I'm already tired of this guy, i think i'll just kick him in the nads.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Greendragon - the problem is a knife attack does not require force to create lethal wounds. Falling backwards, he could slash a primary artery.

Frankly, unless you have experience and knowledge about bladed matters, it is best to get the bouncers to extricate you.

Bradens advice about creating distance is sound.

[Gabriel]

Perhaps you have a partial point there Braden, but I wouldn't get in close until he strikes, then I would close distance, see? You can close distance in a number of ways, most involve the concept of sticking. So that cuts off your confrontational angle, cause I would let him attack first in a bar. As far as the rest, wouldn't it be better to stick to what I train in? PM teaches to get in close, so it would be rather silly to go against what I train in every day wouldn't you say? Heck, my only range technique is a right side kick leftover from Karate :D. And while I can amaze my kung fu brothers with the range and power I achieve with it, others would be like "whoopee" :rolleyes:

So i agree that keeping the distance may be the best option for you and many others, but not for those that train to fight close, like me.

See more of the body? True I guess. But in PM, we don't really watch the limbs after making contact with them. We stick by feel, then follow, and issue. hmm heard that before no? :)

As far as knives and bottles *shrug*, well first I would check to see if he has anything in his hand before the fight even starts, and if during the course of the conflict, he makes a grab for his pocket or for a nearby bottle, I either bolt or use my strongest techniques, depending on what my instinct tells me to do..

[Braden]

Gab - I didn't mean to imply "don't go in close during a fight," I meant specifically "don't go in close before the fight."

[greendragon]

I have had some knife training, enough to know i need to control the weapon. Your advice is the most practical about getting out with the bouncers help. I respect your opinion, guys, perhaps i will re-think the tactic.

[Gabriel]

oh..... :o


My mistake.

Carry on :D

[old jong]

I don't fight bald guys! :D

[Water Dragon]

LOL

[rogue]

A move that I learned at Freddie V's way back when is to gently but firmly step on the guys foot and then push him, or some other move to get him moving back, well everything except that foot. Used it once in a minor bar fight back in the band days, but be careful since it could really wreck the guys foot pretty bad.

[Black Jack]

Rogue,

That is one wicked move! That is kinda univeral to a lot of systems but I wonder if Freddy V. had it copywrited;)

[Shooter]

yep...step on his foot and push him down. It's the Tai Chi way...

[greendragon]

o.k., i thought it out and i'm sticking to my strategy of keeping close distance (passively). i can control him from that position if he makes any move. most bar room episodes are sucker punches and i don't want to get one. you think i should step on his foot and push? i'm there. more likely i will do something to incapacitate him right out of the box so i don't have to "fight". Now this 'close' strategy may not be for you but it has worked for me many times. anyway, i'm so laid back they usually harmonize. if the friends join in, then it's grab a handy weapon time.

[Mutant]

maybe i'd tell him i was h.i.v. positive (don't worry not true thank god!!!) and that i don't want to get infected blood on him or anybody else, and then ask him to buy me a drink. of course this would ruin chances of getting lucky at that bar...

actually i'd just try to be friendly and funny and display confidence, maybe try to make good contact with his friends. if he's acting this way he probably has low self esteem anyway and you might win the battle buy manipulating this. remain very aware, survey surrounding for variables and potential weapons, look for exit, etc. also begin to manuever so that you'd lesson the chance of being surrounded/attacked from behind by friends, use people and objects to screen and good escape route. relaxed body language that also happens to cover and be ready to strike.

if all diplomatic efforts fail and quick escape is not possible, then response would have to vary depending on particular variables, and best move might be anything from push and off balance, to palm strike, chin na, to the extreme of crushing trachea with strike or cutting/smashing with bottle or other available weapon. i would not to get into grappling unless that was advantagous to that particular encounter (unlikely), but to keep moving, keep distance and quickly and repeatedly strike anyone menacing that came into range. and then depending on bar and situation, would try to bolt and put miles between me and the chaos to decrease the chances of dealing with cops and their interpretation of the fight.

of course thats just ideally what i might try to do if i werent so d@mn drunk on tequila. ;)

[SanShou Guru]

Mutant,

No Drinking starting in July if you are going to fight in Florida.
Try not to miss the sparring tomorrow (Saturday) at 1:30 if you can. Marvin Perry and I (maybe even Jason Yee) get to put a whuppin on Rudi Ott (well just Marvin if my old Rudi tricks don't work anymore).

[Mutant]

10-4 on that Guru.

Cool, see you there tomorrow afternoon!

I don't know about any 'Rudy Tricks' but no using the dreaded 'Stink Palm'!!! :D

[Water Dragon]

NO DRINKING!?!?!?!? What do ya mean no drinking? How can you call yourself a Gong Fu guy if you don't drink beer :D