Jik Bo

[BIU JI]

Just curious on peoples opinion of the famous Jik bo form. When it should be introduced to training?etc. Is a good form for developing short power but do you think its more suited to those who have learnt some martial arts before as apposed to those who come from a back ground of none?

[WongFeHung]

This depends upon who is teaching it and why. I have seen people teach it as a first set before teaching Hung Ga, due to the fact that it is short and relatively easy to pick up (not absorb and understand) and I feel it makes developing a solid foundation very difficult if not impossible. In this case, I would teach it later after the foundation is developed solidly to refine the short power. As far as teaching it in a Bak Mei P'ai, curriculum, of course it would be taught as one of the first forms.Too many people borrow forms from here and there and although they think that they are offering a wide variety of technique, they merely confuse the student who instead should be establishing a solid foundation in the fundamental movements of their style.

[tnwingtsun]

I dissagree and if I wern't so tired I'd explain,but I agree with some parts of you post,

Sorry,the Sandman's got me in a choke.

yawn!!!!!


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[BIU JI]

In the Yau Kun Mun curriculum its taught at the tenth level. The first form -TUNG JI KUEN teachs long power with punchs coming from the hip, still keeping the Baat Ding Baat Bat with Jik Bo being a preperation form for higher forms like Ying Jow Ling Q and Gau Bo Toi.
Doesnt apply to everyone of course but I see systems like these help if youve had some back ground but like I said is not always the case.

[MarkS]

I didn't know Jik Bo/Jek Bo was within any other system except Pak Mei.

Mark S

[BIU JI]

Well I was refering to that!

[MarkS]

BiuJi:Well I was refering to that!

Fair enough, however you did not make that clear, plus already Hung Gar and Yau Kung Mun(sp?) have been mentioned as using a version (?) of Jik Bo.
In the Pak Mei I am taught Jik Bo is the first set. I can't see why it cannot be taught to complete beginners, in fact I think that this would be easier as 'experienced' martial artists might see the set as 'too simple'. I know I did.
That is until I began to understand it, and then it became simple again. :-)

Mark S

[Rei]

Jik bo kuen is taugh in white tiger. It part of the white eyebrown forms and its taugh at... 2nd brown blet i think :D so its pretty muc one of the last forms ;)

Peace!

*To conquer others, you must first conquer yourself*

[MarkS]

Rei : Jik bo kuen is taugh in white tiger

Is that the White Tiger thats called Bak Fu Pai??

See this is getting complicated now, how many styles use this set, and is it the same one??

I don't know much about Bak Fu Pai apart from what I have read on websites and bickering thats gone on on here. No such animal in the UK, as far as I know, same goes for Yau Kung Mun.

Mark S

[Rei]

yes its the Bak Fu Pai white tiger style. and ya, lots of people says its fake and blah blah blah. but who here has came from that time and can tell u what is real and whats not? ;) i study i and ive seen it applied... might be fake but its effective. Jik bo kuen is used at brown level as i said. the way we study it we start with iron palm training then move on to white eyebrow and then white tiger... basical its tiger/dragon style with the other 3 of 5 shaolin animals added. it has chi kung, slow forms, a philosophical side... id say its a good style. but meh.. all kungfu is good to me :D ims sold ;) lol

Peace

*Qui semme le vent, recolte la tempete!*

[fiercest tiger]

hi there,
yau kung mun late grandmaster was a bak mei sifu before leaving cheung lai chun and studying under a shaolin monk tit yun the internal art known as yau kung mun!
grandmaster ha hon hung keep all the bak mei sets and added it to the syllubus. jik bo kuen is a little higher in the system because its taught before gau bo toy. its taught in the park at early leaves but not in the class, because my sifu believed that to do jik bo kuen the big the space for the stepping the better the training for the form. we use to do it for 300 meters as a warm up every sunday at the park, boy they use to give you a workout! :D

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[fiercest tiger]

can you tell us who you sifu is? i didnt know bak fu had belts or is it a sash?

good system ;)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[billy_pilgrim]

Rei,
Haven't we been through this before? I don't think anyone (at least not me) was saying BFP was fake...just that your teacher didn't know any. If he learned his BFP from Jim Lacy, then he doesn't know BFP. That's as simple as I can make it.

[Rei]

um no.. is THATS what ur saying then dude ur wrong. shergold is learning iron palm from lacy NOT bfp. who aid lacy even knew that stuff? everywheres i read hes all about iron palm. vincent pepper knows bfp and learned under doo wai and YES a bunch of u idiots said it was fake ill go dig up the post if u want. i personaly dont care... bash it all u want less stuff for u to learn. what i dont liek is everyone doiung assumptions on what they hear not EXPERIENCE. anyways screw this go fight about it with someoen else

Peace!

*Qui semme le vent, recolte la tempete!*

[fiercest tiger]

lacy might not be liked in bfp, but his iron palm is strong and breaks ****e! alot of people here dont like lacy for what ever reasons but still he can still hit pretty hard!

long time no here billy! hows training etc?

richard shergold still with lacy?

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[tnwingtsun]

Have you met Lacey?,just wondering how you know he has power. ;)

[fiercest tiger]

back in 1995 i bought some video's of bfp off lacy, because he said he had bak mei info from doo wai. i did some forms for him because he liked the way i did forms etc. anyway he has strong conditioned hands i meant! :rolleyes: he breaks coconuts pretty easy for what ive seen on videos etc. so that is pretty good, i have broken coconuts and they are definately harder than concret blocks etc, i have incorporated the coconut for ykm breaking material for iron palm training.

ykm has 3 different levels of iron palm, last being cotton palm internal.

i know that lacy specialises in iron palm that come from doo wai BFP, but he is no longer with him. anyways his iron palm isnt bad! thats my opinion :cool:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[WenJin]

Could have a great iron palm but he is full of it. Read the site, it contains so much misleading information.
http://www.ironpalm.com/index.html

[fiercest tiger]

alot of it is from doo wai, is he full of it too?

lacys kung fu is more kempo then anything else!

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[BIU JI]

Anyway besides all the ever present politics does anyone want to comment on the form itself and what they get from it!
This wasnt actually ment as a thread for discussing if BFP is real or not( no disrespect).
I train this form regularly with/without iron rings, great for punching , posture . Do you train it with some tension or just all relaxed and loose?Come on guys lets keep it to kung fu .

[billy_pilgrim]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
vincent pepper knows bfp and learned under doo wai
[/quote]

GM Doo told you this? When? Where?

Don't believe everything you're told...

[billy_pilgrim]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
alot of it is from doo wai
[/quote]

Like what?

It's true that Lacy isn't well liked in BFP, for obvious reasons. Interesting to note that, a couple of months ago I stumbled across a web page by one of Lacy's "lohons" (now possibly an ex-lohon after Lacy admitted the fraud to him) who was selling a video tape of a certain Australian YKM Shifu in action. Anyway, I heard that when this Shifu found out about this, he became quite upset and demanded this to stop. So...it looks like WE aren't the only ones who don't like the guy and don't want to be associated with him.

[fiercest tiger]

it was me, that was on the video! and of course i was ****ed because i was never apart of his so called reps.

i bought some bak mei info of doo wai and he asked me to do a form for him so i did. jim lacy has never done anything to me wrong personally, but that was wrong and he apologised and took my photo and imige off his video.

you yourself is a ex lacy as well as many here! which has done videos on white tiger wing chun for lacy and god knows what else.

well he isnt ykm so i have no beef with lacy at all. bfp politics which i dont give a rats ass about! i feel sorry for doo wai anyways, but they had a fall out.

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Rei]

u want me to CALL doo wai?!?! ill get the danm number and call him if itll make u shut up all i have to ddo is ask richard and hell give it to me. you guys are so squepticle it makes me sick!

*Qui semme le vent, recolte la tempete!*

[billy_pilgrim]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
it was me, that was on the video!
[/quote]

Um...yeah...I know.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
you yourself is a ex lacy as well as many here!
[/quote]

I think you've got me confused with someone else.
Lots of people were taken in by Jim, and, yes, my first exposure in a limited sense, to BFP was reading one of the guy's articles. But everyone jumps ship eventually, only the delusional are still left.

[billy_pilgrim]

Rei,

Yes, you are right I am squepticle! I just want you to do you're homework (literally). Don't take everything at face value, just because someone can punch and kick hard, doesn't mean that you should hang on their every word and buy all of the BS that they sell. Let me know how that phone call goes.

[Rei]

you are DENCE! i dont care bout lacy never talked to him dont have anythnig to DO with him cept through shergold whom i dont even study under anymore. who cares about him u wanna waste ur time talking bout how much he sucks blah blah hes full of **** blah blah well guess what while UR ****ing ur pants thinking of ways to insult him HES studying and doing his training guess hwos winning in the end? maybe ur just jealous cause u could join the bandwagon. that or u jsut cant figure out how to makemoney like him so u bad mouth him like a monkey throws **** when hes mad. im not sticking up for him in anyways im sayign UR danm ignorant to waste ur breath on him if u think hes so fake then go about ur danm bizness! its like all the other people that get ****ed at this ROLLS idiot on th eboard for crying out load get a danm life...

*Qui semme le vent, recolte la tempete!*

[tnwingtsun]

Steriods are bad for you man.

[fiercest tiger]

WHAT EVER... :rolleyes:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[BIU JI]

Anyhow how about that JIK BO?! :D

[Dale Dugas]

I wanted to say that I train the form with both tension and non tension performances. I also do Sam Bo Jin the same way. I work sometimes on trying to create a slicing ging in some of the movements, especially when the arms cross and uncross, in the scissor arm movements.

[MarkS]

IronM: I work sometimes on trying to create a slicing ging in some of the movements, especially when the arms cross and uncross, in the scissor arm movements.

Could you explain this? I'm a tad confused.

Mark S

[Dale Dugas]

This is something I have come up with. I try and train the way the arms move out like slicing through something. I train slow and visualize slicing through my opponents attack with the scissor hands/arms. After I got used to it(more than a year) I train it faster, but with same intent to slice through anything thrown at me

I say ging as that is the word taught to me to represent power from whole body coordination.

Dale

[Rei]

woa lost u with that one... u sayin IM on steroids?? if thats the case sorry but no my built is mine... sides if i WAS on steroids id HAVE a built :D so ya shut up and stop making obviously stupid assumptions trying to be funny man... everyone thinks hes a comedian

*Qui semme le vent, recolte la tempete!*

[billy_pilgrim]

First I'd like to offer an apology to the forum (especially you Biu Ji) for muddying this thread w/the Jim Lacy nonsense. Many of you do not have a psychopath like this guy doing his best to harm your Pai and your Grandmaster, and for that, be thankful, and thanks for cutting me a lil' slack now and then if I seem to be obsessed.
FT,
I know that if you had a guy do to your Shifu what Lacy has done to GM Doo, you would be every bit as angry as I am. So I know you understand...

Rei,
I thought we were talking about Peppers, not Lacy. You say that he learned BFP from GM Doo, and I asked you when GM Doo told you this...end of story. If someone says to you, "I was a former closed door disciple for 12 years!", don't just say, "Really!" say, "Really?" and put their words to the test.

As for the form...
I love these Jik Bo/Chung Bo forms...so many people dismiss them as "basics". I think this comes about because of the fact that they are taught early on in the training. My own feeling is that many times, what is taught early is done so not because it is basic, and therefore, not so important later on, they are taught early because they are the most important things one learns. How many stories to you read about great masters of antiquity, and the one common thread regardless of style is the persistance and dilligence with which these masters worked on their "basics".

[BIU JI]

Billy- thats cool , no stress, thanks anyway . I ve given the forum a rest for a while because things can flare up over silly words people say but hope I can be more relaxed with it this time.

Ironmonk- are you refering to something like sip kiul?(my spe lling is wrong probably). Even with a straight punch you can still slice across an arm , using your bridge on the way in to deflect or "slice". This isnt sip kiul but works in similar way.
There is 2 types of slicing in "sek sze kuen" 1 slicing in , palms up and 1 slicing out palms down.

Billy- do you do Jik Bo as a slow meditative type form as well as with power? I train it mostly with tension to develop the shoulder/back for straight punching. ;) ˇ

[Rei]

i dont like pepper to me he didnt seem like anything really. when he came and taugh us i wasnt too impressed and when he learned my age (im 17 but look like 21) he said htat if he woulda known he wouldnt have let me in. that kinda ticked me off... pl hes fat and out of shape :D seriously to hell with all lineage crap its always fighting situations.... everyone has there own lil story to make it gullible and interesting to the public... i do the art and practice it i dont care who was a 18th GM before me and my whole family got to canada there DEAD ;)

Peace!

*Qui semme le vent, recolte la tempete!*

[Dale Dugas]

Biu Ji,

Yes, it is what I was trying to get on paper but I didnt have enough caffiene the other day when I was posting.

I also do this form with the brass rings on and try and ging my punches and develop some nasty short power.

I also try and do this form slow and think about projecting my energy out into my frame.


I try and hold a posture and work it into my muscle memory.

Talk to you,

[tnwingtsun]

"steroids?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
woa lost u with that one... u sayin IM on steroids?? if thats the case sorry but no my built is mine... sides if i WAS on steroids id HAVE a built so ya shut up and stop making obviously stupid assumptions trying to be funny man... everyone thinks hes a comedian"


OK,you figure it out,


"fuuuuuuuckkkkkk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you are DENCE! i dont care bout lacy never talked to him dont have anythnig to DO with him cept through shergold whom i dont even study under anymore. who cares about him u wanna waste ur time talking bout how much he sucks blah blah hes full of **** blah blah well guess what while UR ****ing ur pants thinking of ways to insult him HES studying and doing his training guess hwos winning in the end? maybe ur just jealous cause u could join the bandwagon. that or u jsut cant figure out how to makemoney like him so u bad mouth him like a monkey throws **** when hes mad. im not sticking up for him in anyways im sayign UR danm ignorant to waste ur breath on him if u think hes so fake then go about ur danm bizness! its like all the other people that get ****ed at this ROLLS idiot on th eboard for crying out load get a danm life..."


I made the comment because you seemed a little hotheaded,chill out,if I want to joke its because thats my nature,maybe I mistook your passion for anger.
A litte too much uppercase for me. :D

Jek-bo?,ah.........I love that form,it could be called the SNT of Bai Mei,its taught as the first internal set after at least four years of external
training.Some schools teach this as their first set.
As of now I have learned four versions of Jek-bo,
two from Dr.Wong,one from Chang-beng-fatt and the other from Chen-Seuy-Dor.
All four have the same concepts(Sink,Swallow,Spit,Float) some of the hand movements differ,the footwork is the same except for one of the turn arounds.
Alot such as SLT in WT/WC/VT is hidden in Jek-bo.
FT made a comment about going 300meters before the turn around.
We had a long strech in Sifu's yard we called jek-bo ally,he had to landscape it because of the ground that was worn from the drag stepping. :cool:

[fiercest tiger]

your exactly right, when i used to train with my sifu at the park, the ground was torn to ****e. we have 2 different versions on the footwork as well as different hand techniques!

i miss those days:)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Rei]

hey, im deprived :D amazing what sexual frustrations do to a man ;)

*Qui semme le vent, recolte la tempete!*