Defence against takedowns

[friday]

hi i'd like to ask for some help with defending against takedowns, particularly against takedowns from below the waist for e.g. the basic single and double leg takedowns from BJJ,
plus would also be interested in ways to defend against takedowns that use the body above the waist as well, e.g. shuai chiao.
ive heard of the sprawl but mayb someone could explain that a bit better for me too.

can someone also tell me how do ppl who mainly have learnt striking techniques can capitalise their greater knowledge or specialisation in striking over groundfighting , grappling specialists.

also if i'm on the floor against a guy in the mount, how to escape.
this is just something i would like to know more about after watching some clips of UFC and Pride. it seems alot of these competition fights get taken to the ground alot.

thanks

[SevenStar]

trying to counterabove the waist takedowns is someting that you can't really go into great detail about for the simple fact that there are so many above the waist takedowns, for example, wrapping your leg around the leg of someone attempting a shoulder throw on you does not apply to tai otoshi. the escapes for tai otoshi don't apply to tomoe nage, but may work for koshi guruma...there is no simple solution. the best thing to do would be to play with judo and shuai chiao players. While you're training with them ask them for counters to the techs they use, and practice applying them.

As for the ground, learn elbow escapes, such as shrimping and also learn how to bridge and roll.

If you want to maximize your stiking effectiveness against a grappler, you have to train hard, and you need at least some experience sparring with grapplers. you can do all the stand up you want, but if you have no idea how a grappler is coming at you or how to counter what he does, you will be in the dark while fighting him.

[Unstoppable]

hey buddy! vheck out the thread \"Att: Grapplers! Advice needed. ( 1 2 3 )" you will find Some useful Information there! Especially my advice j/k ;) :D :D :)

[Former castleva]

Often when it comes to defense against grappling attacks (jointlocks,breaks,holds,throw try-outs etc.)
It is easiest to use opposite against them-striking.
It is easiest and fastest to do.Immediately kick or punch them to distract and escape.
You have to be quick for once a realistic chin-na technique or related has been taken far enough,there is no escape.
If it´s a tackle (above the waist) stand your ground,take a step back,and land couple of elbows on opponents spinal cord.
If it´s a dive for the legs,do the same or alternative,depending on the situation.Or just kick them in the head.
This reminds me of an interview of Jon Bluming (karate&judo master) I think he was watching a competition in which his student was competing.There was this strange rule that if one goes to ground to take opponent down,he cannot be attacked if he has already landed one knee of his to ground.
Well, Blumings students opponent tried this and went half to ground to give him an easy escape.
Student gave him his best elbow to the back of his neck.
That,I believe,stopped the match,even though it was illegal.

[friday]

thanks everyone
i'll look for that forum now and read up on that

[Merryprankster]

Ah yes--the old stand your ground and hit them defense...


If it´s a tackle (above the waist) stand your ground,take a step back,and land couple of elbows on opponents spinal cord. If it´s a dive for the legs,do the same or alternative,depending on the situation.Or just kick them in the head.

Have fun fighting on your back.

Spar a few wrestlers and you'll rapidly discover that the above is a low percentage way of trying to counter the shot. We constantly overestimate both our own power under pressure and the frailty of the human body.

[friday]

hi Merryprankster,

it would be great if u could give me an explanation of these terms which i found on that thread:

what are elbow escapes?
what is shrimping?

lol sorry it would be a great help. i could do the research somewhere but if u could give me a short explanation that would be great

thanks

[LEGEND]

www.fighttraining.com...
that's a website that can help u on muy thai and bjj stuff.

Double leg counter is the sprawl.
Single leg counter is crossface and various others.

Upper body counter to grappling is pummeling.

www.royharris.com has excellent technical explanations on how to excape from the full mount...side mount etc...

Best thing to do once u reach a higher level in your striking style is to take a course in GRAPPLING. You can do this by joining a wrestling club at your skool! Or you can pay for a BJJ course around your area.

People should look at martial arts as a learning experience. Like going to a college or university. Your general requirements are STRIKING and GRAPPLING. So u may take a 4 month course in boxing...then a 4 month course in wrestling. Based on your preference and your feel to the GAME...u're begin to MAJOR in one or the other. But having experience both styles u can now say u're aware of how to counter it! A lot of kararte, boxers and others just make theories on how to counter a takedown based on observation thru tapes or watching a past fight. The best way is to experience the style. Then u can come to a choice of uhhhhhhhhhh MAJOR.

If u're a standup fighter based on boxing for example...u may want to investigate the various tools of MUY THAI...u may want to see how a savate kick compares to a tkd kick...or a northern style cma art compares to southern style cma art and see what u're natural at.

[kungfu cowboy]

Just develop your root and redirect their force. You will never go down, ever. Never ever. Its the magic of kung fu.:p

[SevenStar]

yes, reamain rooted. sink your chi....


as for shrimping, here ya go:

http://members.aol.com/nymagym/escapingmove.html

it's a pic of a guy doing a shrimping drill. you can see how the drill applies though. just in case you can't:

1. someone has you mounted. you pull your elbows in tight so that they cannot get a deep mount - as in their knees inside your armpits. The elbows keep them at bay, as it prevents them from moving up further.

you know what? I just looked again and noticed that it has captions, so I don't have to type all that mess. sweet.

from the last position of the shrimping drill you would try to move that bent leg outside of the opponents' mounted leg. If you are able to do so, he will be in half guard. you could then plant the other foot and shrimp in the opposite direction. if you manage to get that led free, you will have him in full guard.

[SevenStar]

you will also want to learn some guard passing techniques.

[Merryprankster]

Seven--

Sinking the chi thing was a joke, right? Please? :)

[SevenStar]

http://bjj.org/techniques/

[SevenStar]

wha??!??!??! Are you disputing the effectiveness of sinking the chi? :)

[chokeyouout]

Don't ever think hitting someones spine will stop a takedown.That is the biggest pile of dog sh!t I've ever heard.

[chingei]

Originally posted by LEGEND
[url]
Double leg counter is the sprawl.
Single leg counter is crossface and various others.

Upper body counter to grappling is pummeling.



well! that solves that, then. simple enough.













:rolleyes:

[Unstoppable]

SEVENSTAR i think I have Seen Shrimping before but Called something Different. Is it the Same as "HIP ESCAPE" (A BJJ TECHNIQUE)????????

[LEGEND]

Chingel glad u think so!

Unstoppable...now how ya know that???

[Unstoppable]

i know Much about Many different MAS :)

NAMAT TEMPLT BOXING consists of Very Many Techniques from various EFFECTIVE arts including BJJ

TTFN

[anerlich]

Yeah, according to Unstoppable's site, his Sifu invented the BJJ guard but Carlos Gracie Snr stole his ideas.

[Unstoppable]

yes (ward)

TTFN

[anerlich]

and that despite the "fact" that Unstoppable's Sifu was born in 1973 and didn't start training until 1976 (at the age of three). Obviously, his Sifu is able to travel through time as well (either that or Carlos Snr and Helio could)

[Unstoppable]

Whatever

BUTTWAD!

TTFN

[No_Know]

Against double leg: low horse-riding stance; side to charger.

Against single leg: extend leg from the knee and feel free to hop hop toget carried (If you feel threatened serious beating-Death you might try strong knuckles to the area where the neck meets the back). Merely try to get out after that. Something should come to you.

Above the waist: as much as possible, keep seperate your hips or butt or pelvis from the other person's hips or butt or pelvis; keep over your feet, avoid leaning.