Is MMA real?

[Joe]

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10687

i got this from the above link, so what do u guys think?

[Royal Dragon]

Hey, Hackney had Gracies foot IN HIS HAND and was set for a crippling, fight ending ankle lock that Gracie would NEVER have been able to escape, withou a broken ankel that is, yet he just sat there like a Dummb ass.

When asked about it, he said he was "Tired" and didn't think about doing it. I find that hard to believe, especially considering the caliber fighter Hackney is.

If the Fix wasn't in on that one, Hackney was drugged, one of the two.

[Ryu]

:rolleyes:

LOL.....ah :)

Yes, MMA is real. Some of the Pride shows have unfortunately had "fixed" fights. But the majority of what you see is not staged at all, and each fighter fights full contact to beat the other.

Kids are funny.

Is judo real?? :(

:D

Ryu

[Unstoppable]

yes true it is not REAL FIGHTING which happens in the street. in the Street there is not soft Mat nor little Gloves nor no Groin shots nor Royce GRACIE (j/k LOL)

also I think the FORUM on that site is Correcty. Msot MMA is a pretend fight they Actually LIKE each other (you can see them shake hands and be friends after - WTF???????) it is Unrealistic to Shake hands with an opponent who YOU REALLY WANT TO HURT> the only True fighting is CHINESE STYLE STREET FIGHTING!!! HAVE YOU HEARD OF TRADITIONAL CVHALLERNGE MATCHES???? that's where you Find out whos good anmd BAD!

ALSO you can tell

FOR EXAMPLE

in Amatuer MMA they are not REally fighitng they ARE often too little. I think Maybe they WOULD DIE IF THEY DID. PLUS some JIUJITSU tournaments are a little CRAZy---Hmmm....SUSPICIOUS ANYONE?

[anerlich]

SUSPICIOUS ANYONE?
Yeah, I'm suspicious about why you type and express yourself like an adolescent after a claimed 20 years in MA learning from books and tapes.


you can see them shake hands and be friends after - WTF???

It's sportfighting, mate. Grow up. Even Mike Tyson is respectful of his (decent) opponents afterwards.

BTW how many of these Chinese challenge matches have you been in? How did the place you were in when you fought handle getting public liability insurance afterwards? Were the hospital bills covered by private health insurance? Who buried the bodies of the vanquished?

Oh, and what's that crap on your "website" about your "master" defeating William Cheung? Was it in a "Chinese Challenge Match" when they were trying to kill each other? Where's the PROOF?

[Kungfu boy]

I had two guys from my school fight in the last NHB event here in Texas. It was a Renegades Xtreme Fighting tournie. Its a local thing put on by a Houston area school owner.

One of our guys won, the other lost. And yes it's quite real. There were rules, no spinal attacks, fist to the body-open hand to head, no elbows etc. Stuff just to keep people alive ya know. As for people shaking hands after, its just proper to do so. Most of the fighters actually went to each others corners to talk and shake hands with the opponets cornerman/teacher. Overall, I think MMA gets a bad rap on the respect game. Some people are like "Oh they're ****y, they're *****s" etc. Some of them are granted. Others like Tito Ortiz, who I met at Renegades, was the most calm composed, soft spoken and respectful person I've met.

One last thing, this is how it was explained to me. There are two sides to MMA.

1. Self defense
2. NHB tournie(like Renegades,Pride, UFC etc.)

NHB tournie is not real NHB, self defense is REAL NHB. You understand what I mean. In a tournie I may get an armbar, but I'll let the guy tap out, on the street I break his arm then jump up and down on his chest. I'm kinda rowdy like that....

Later

[chokeyouout]

I realise this question is posed as a joke.Go watch some NHB live and judge for yourself.

[TzuChan]

Could someone tell me what MMA is ? Mixed Martial Arts or something ?

[Unstoppable]

Anerlich and KF Boy opkay maybe i Take your point about Shaking hands. its like Bowing in Temple Boxing and other KF styles, RIGHT? just a Sign of Respect (important). Maybe they aren't Friends or whatever.

i have Not been in Chinese Challenges because Iam still studying. Not a Sifu. there Is a History of many challenge matches in Chinese times - you cann look it up! MAny others on this Board will know about this too!

i dont know what is about William Cheung on your website I have checked and its not there. (in Fact from your other point isn't William Cheung in many Hong Kong Chinese Challenges?)



:confused: :confused: :confused:

PS About my Typing I know I am not good at writing on Here (mostly don't use internet, e-mail etcx until recently) but I can express Myself better in words. Just becaue someone's not the Best at WRITING doesn't mean they're dumb or Young.

[Royal Dragon]

*The student will learn many attacks from Thom Nelson's secret fighting position, "the ward" which involves using the legs from underneasth to control an opponent on the ground (This secret to NAMAT Temple Boxing, possibly stolen by and renamed by Carlos Gracies Seniors).

*Many hidden techniques to destroy wrestlers, such as "fireman's carry with punch", "double leg takedown with kick", and "phoenix eye fist to groin". These cannot be defended.

*Many hints and secrets

*How to defeat and neutralise even world champion boxers and kickboxers using techniques known only to Thom Nelson, including the twist and punch, the duck then kick, and the spinning duck then kick.

*Make mincemeat of the other famous "Martial Arts". For instance. Defeat the muay thai fighter's leg check by kicking the exposed shin. Defeat boxers using kicks and defeat wrestlers with secrets ...... YOU WILL BE SHOWN HOW!

*Fighting and self defense for women, weaklings and children. You don't have to be good to be good at fighting!

*Fighting against many (five) oponents and different abled opponents with weapons including knive throw into foreheads and double punch triple kick.

Order it!!!


Or this:


NAMAT was created by Sifu Thom Nelson after years of attempts to perfect the ultimate fighting temple. Beginning his fighting career in 1973 at the age of three, Sifu Nelson watched Kung Fu on television. Inspiration struck! He began training with Sifu Lee Richard in Wing Chun Gong Fu and before he was the age of 10 he had achieved disciple status. At the age of fifteen, Sifu Nelson realized that there was more to the martial tapestry than Wing Chun Kung Fu and began training in Judo with Judo Champ. Many other trainings follow: in 1985, the year of "Back to the FUture", Sifu Nelson was taking his own journey (not to the future) to Thailand. There he trained at the prestigious lumpyknee muay thai camp for seven months. At the end of his time there, he defeated all fellow students and instructors one after another in his blackbelt test, the quickest it had ever been done, and was thus awarded the World Muay Thai Heavyweight Championship despite weighing only 60kg!! In 1989 a pilgrimage to Japan was in the books for Nelson. He went to Japan. There he learned many martial arts of Karate (Shotokan, Kyokushin, Kando, Kenpo) and ninjas (ninjutsu, ninjitsu) and some brief visits with a mighty sumo.

The you have the obiquatory "Mystery Master in the Park" story:

It is clear from this that Sifu Nelson was the greatest martiAAL artist of his day. But one thing was lacking. One day he walked past a park with an old Asian guy in it. The Asian guy was doing some kind of weird kata waving his arms about - the energy was visible flowing into the trees and flowers. Sifu Nelson went "Holy Cow! I have to learn that!". At first, Sifu Nelson just wanted to know the energy movements as a mystical trick - he thought that this little Asian guy would be easy to beat up. He challenged the Asian dude to a fight. If Nelson won, he would be taught the secret. If the Asian guy won he would get fifty $$$$$. The Asian guy neautralized all of Nelsons mad skills. Judo? No. Muay Thai? Useless. Lethal Wing Chun Kong Fu? Crap. .......Suffice it to say, that Asian guy was fifty $$$$$ bucks richer after beating the crap out of Sifu Nelson (but Sifu Nelson is not a weakling). Because Sifu Nelson had shown such skill in fighting, though, Peter Zhang decided to teach him his old tricks anyway. It turned out that Asian guy was Peter Zhang. Peter Zhang is the last surviving inheritor of Chinese style animal kung fu. He received the knowledge from his friend, Fred Cho (he is dead). No one else understands its secrets. Soon in 1995 Peter Zhang Died, leaving Sifu Nelson as the sole inheritor of the legendary Chi Powers of the Orient. Now we can see that Sir Thom has many secret knowledges for his temple that others do not even begin to understand. This is why he is the best.

In 1997 Sir Thom decided that it was simply not enough for him to use his secret many martial arts and animal kung fu knowledge simply for his own benefit, fighting crime, fitness, health, secret missions etc. He decided he would set up the temple so that Peter Zhangs death would not be in vein. He set up the temple. This temple was so he could be teaching many students the myseries which would otherwise be lost forever. So he made it so anyone, young or old, Asian or black, girl or man could join and learn the many mysteries of the Orient, this way they can be passed down by dedication forever into the future (Back to the Future????)!!!!

Our Lineage (structure of teachings and passing down secrets). This describes who learned what from which Kung Fu masters. The lineage is the key to our secret knowledge and how we have defeated many weaklings, rivals and enemies including Grand Master Johnny Chow.

Some of our achievements are defeating Shaolin Monks in ultimate combat championship; our master has never lost a battle (even against many famous Kung Fu masters including Grand Master Johnny Chow); Bruce Lee has said that NAMAT is "the greatest Martial Arts Temple in the world, with the best teachings and secrets."


Don't forget list of super famous people

FAMOUS PEOPLE. Many celebrities are graduated from NAMAT. Sarah Michelle Gellar ("Buffy" - famous vampire slayer). Chuck Norris as well as Sammo Hung and Jackie Chan. The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin are both accredited teachrs of NAMAT American Temple Boxing

[TzuChan]

Originally posted by Kungfu boy


were rules, no spinal attacks, fist to the body-open hand to head,


What's up with them open hands attacks ****ed lol, could someone PLEASE tell me what's so friggin lethal about them ? I never considered using them in real life ... please explain !

[TzuChan]

[namat website]
You can learn these secret special moves by training in NAMAT! These are some of the techniques that Thom Nelson "The Fighting Knight" can teach to his students, as well as the rank that is required to achieve these secret techniques.

Technique: Spider Chi Grip
Description: The Spider Chi Grip places the victim in a web of chi which prevents them from escaping and drain's their energy, rendering them helpless. Thom Nelson developed this technique himself from observing the patterns of the spider as it spins it's deadly web, this technique may have inspired the movies "Crouchg Tiger Hidden Dragon" and "The Matrix".
Requirement: 19-24 years of training.

Technique: Slow Bear Blow
Description: This technique is based on the movement of the bear. It reaches incredible force with very slow movements so this explains how the noble bear can decapitate a measly child with one blow of it's paw. This technique was developed by the mysterious Peter Zhang and can be seen in one episode of the TV Show "Law and Order".
Requirement: 10 years of training as well as a pilgrimage to New York (mysterious reasons).

Technique: Tap Shatter
Description: This incredible "death touch" technique is known only by one man (Nelson) as it is passed on to the student by the master only when he feel's Death is iminent. It allows the attacker to completely disingrate the victims bones with a quick tap, i.e. shatter the knee, all it takes is one tap and the victim is down for the count. It is rumored that this technique was used to kill Rasputin.
Requirement: ????
[/end namat website]

Uhm ? :/

[Royal Dragon]

Yes, maybe?

[Unstoppable]

please stop Plagiarising from myt Sifus website we Have already had a Discussion about this Which was deleted because of BLATANT PREJUDICE against NAMAT by some members of This forum. i will Not attack anyone ELSEs Style or Lineage and am just here for technical DISCUSSION NOT FOR ARGUING so please Show me Some respect and Respond to what I write on here NOT what you see on the Website unless you are being CONSTRUCTIVE. WE HAVE ALREADY GONE OVER THIS SEVERAL TIMES I DONT TEASE YOU ABOUT YOUR STYLE SO DONT TEASE ME ABOUT MINE ITS GETTING BORING AND I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK WITHOUT KNOWING THE BACKGROUND>:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Hau Tien]

Well, "Unstoppable", the website was created by you... not some mysterious "web designer".

In the other thread you gave your imaginary Sifu's email link... but in the guestbook you use the same email address when you signed it yourself. Not to mention that your "Sifu", nor you have replied to any emails.

The site is very obviously a joke... and I applaud you for it. I laughed a lot... especially when I saw the "updates".

Good work, man:)

Hau Tien

[chingei]

Originally posted by Unstoppable
HAVE YOU HEARD OF TRADITIONAL CVHALLERNGE MATCHES???? that's where you Find out whos good anmd BAD!



have you heard of a DICTIONARY?

[Unstoppable]

HauTien I thought you would Have Given up picking on me by Now you must Not have very Much to do.

Of course I Did not create the Website I am not Sifu Nelson I live int Australia not in America for a start how do You explain that? The e-mail address for My Sifu and for Me is the same Maybe you didn't Notice but it is "NAMATKUNGFU" our school E-mail address that all Senior Members can access I Would Not give out my personal E-amil on here because you never Know. My SIFU will reply to E-MAILS ON MONDAY BECAUSER ITS THE WEEKEND HELLO??? AND WE HAVE ALREADY REPLIED TO AN EMAIL FROM SCOTTY JUST ASK HIM>

WHEN WILL YOU LEARN TO JUST STOP LOOKING DOWN ON EVERYTHING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND?????? I AM NOT ATTACKING YOUR STYLE WHY THE HELL IS EVERYONE ATTACKING ME AND CALLING ME AND MY SIFU A JOKE??????

I HOPE THE ADMINS CAN SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE ON HERE ABOUT RESPECT. IN THE BEGINNING IT SAYS "By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws." SO PLEASE STOP POSTING HATEFUL AND VULGAR MESSAGES ABOUT MY STYLE! I WILL ASK MY SIFU TO E-MAIL ADMIN TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS. IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE OR CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY ABOUT ME OR MY SIFU HAU TIEN PLEASE JUST LEAVE ME ALONE TO DISCUSS TECHNIQUE AND PLAY YOUR POLITICS GAMES SOMEWHERE ELSE>

[Hau Tien]

LOL!

Great show, man... again... I applaud you for the joke site :) I'm not insulting you... I'm saying "Great work!"... it's obviously a very creative piece:) Anyone can see what I'm saying:)

Oh... as a side note, I also emailed you and haven't gotten any response;)

In order for me to be "playing politics" and insulting you, there has to be some foundation in reality. The site you made (And yes... you VERY obviously made it... there are so many reasons and ways to prove that, but why bother when it's very very easy to see?) has no foundation in reality whatsoever:)

And so, instead of insulting, I'm applauding your creativity... Bravo!:) Keep up the good work:)

Hau Tien

[Merryprankster]

Joe--Yes, they are real.

Why did Hackney not ankle lock? It's quite possible he didn't think of it, as he claimed. Stranger things have happenned in a fight. The speculation that it's a work is absurd. Really. I can't tell you how many times I've looked at a tape of my competitions and thought "Why the heck didn't I see that?" Does that make all of my matches fake?

Let me put it this way--a competitive combat athlete never would have had to ask that question.

Unstoppable--vehement disagreement is neither vulgar nor hateful.

[Unstoppable]

it is Obvious that you are A Liar with Nothing better to do than slander Genuine Martial Artists to disguise your own failing. i HAVE ALREADY ASKED THAT YOU STOP ATTACKING ME AND MY SIFU> YOU SEEM UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND WRITEN ENGLISH!!!!! i am GLAD you feel like a Big MAn insulting someone who HAS ALREADY SAID THEY HAVE NOTHING AGAINST YOU AND DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT OR ARGUE WITH YOU ON HERE> YOU ARE DISGRACING YOURSELF YOUR SIFU AND YOUR LINEAGE WITH YOUR UINPROVOKED ATTACKS

I WILL NOT RESPOND TO YOU ANYMORE IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU ONLY COME HERE TO START TROUBLE. FROM NOW ON I WILL NOT RESPOND TO YOU UNLESS YOU HAVE A GENUINE QUESTION ABOUT MY STYLE (NOT INSULT) OR A QUESTION OR COMMENT ABOUT TECHBNIQUE. THAT IS WHAT IAM HERE FOR NOT TO ARGUE AND UPSET OTHERS (WHAT YOU WANT TO DO)

I challende you to prove i made That Site i had NOTHING TO SO WITH IT IT IS MY SIFUS SITE. YOU ARE RIDICULOUS YOU MAKE ACCUSATIONS AND MAKE THINGS UP WITH NO PROOF YOU ARE THE JOKE SIR. I WILL FORWARD YOUR POSTS TO ADMIN AND YOU MAY BE BANNED.

[Unstoppable]

THAT POST WAS FOR HAU TIEN NOT MARRYPRANKSTER

[Royal Dragon]

You may be right about the Hackney fight, but from where I'm sitten, he was RIGHT there, I just don't see how he wouldn't have gotten it on instinct alone, that's all. I would have, and I suck. :D

[LEGEND]

Hackney is a kempo guy...from my knowledge he never studied grappling until recently with the LIONs DEN and PANCRATION crowd several years after the UFCs.

Plus Royce Gracie tapped Ken Shamrock( leg lock specialist ) quite easily after Ken went for a heel hook. So maybe Keith was debating his attempted tactic.

Ralek=Unstoppable.

[Unstoppable]

I AM NOT RALEK YOU IDIOT HE IS NOT FROM AUSTRALIA FOR EXAMPLE

[anerlich]

i dont know what is about William Cheung on your website I have checked and its not there. (in Fact from your other point isn't William Cheung in many Hong Kong Chinese Challenges?)

No it's not there any more because you changed it from William Chung to "Johnny Chow" in the last day or so. So who's "Grandmaster" Johnny Chow?

William Cheung fought in rooftop challenges, though their timing and outcome is rather less rigorously defined than the result of any recent MMA match. What's that got to do with MMA matches being rigged?

After 20 years of studying those manuals and tapes, shouldn't Sir Thom be thinking of making you a Sifu by now?


i will Not attack anyone ELSEs Style or Lineage

Bullsh!t, you cast aspertions on William Cheung, now this "Johnny Chow", you said some BJJ matches were rigged, you said any fighters who shook hands weren't in a "real" fight.

Mate, if you just came out and admitted you made all this stuff up, you'd make a lot of friends here, That site's got some of the funniest sh!t I've read in years.

AS I asked several times, where are U from in AUS?


YOU SEEM UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND WRITEN ENGLISH!!!!!
And you seem to have a few problems writing it!

I WILL ASK MY SIFU TO E-MAIL ADMIN TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS
Admin, we await your feedback and decision with bated breath!

[Unstoppable]

i dont Know who GM Johnny Chow is i Will ask my Sifu (assuming You diddnt Make it up like the Cheung thing). i have Not studied NAMAT for twenty Years only other MAs

i am IN MELBOURNE I HAVE ALREADY SAID IT A MILLION TIME WHY WILL NOONE LISTEN!!!!!!!

[anerlich]

i dont Know who GM Johnny Chow is i Will ask my Sifu (assuming You diddnt Make it up like the Cheung thing).

Well, another poster "plagiarised" Johnny Chow from your, sorry, your Sifu's, website earlier in this thread, so I hope we've established I didn't make THAT up. I'll let you calling me a liar about the William Cheung claims on your site slide, since it seems your grip on reality and understanding of truth is fairly tenuous.

Whereabouts in Melbourne? Near William Cheung/Dana Wong's Wing Chun school, or Del Fisher's?

I agree you're not Ralek, Ralek doesn't have your imagination.

[anerlich]

Hey guys, if you check the NAMAT website now, you'll see that Sifu Sir Thomas St Christopher Nelson has put up a response to those "nitpickers, naysayers, and nincompoops" that have attacked one of his "best, hardest fighting cyber students" over the internet!

It may surprise some of you to see that it contains many of the same types of typographical, spelling, and grammatical errors that festoon "Unstoppable's" posts above!

[Hau Tien]

We had the pleasure of chatting with Unstoppable tonight... he's an absolute riot:) I haven't laughed that hard in a long time:)

To be honest, he's a really great troll:) This site is awesome, and the way he "defends" it is great:)

If you get a chance to chat with him, take it... it's a funny experience;)

Hau Tien

[scotty1]

From Scotty1 on Friday:

I've just checked out your website.
>
>Are you serious?
>
>BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!
>
>Scott

The response:

Thanks for your interest.

The answer is yes.

I believe you have spoken to Jackie my student on an online discussion board
feel free to ask him any questions about the art if you find it easier or
you can always e-mail me any time buddy.

Please check our website to order videos.

Thomas C. Nelson


VIDEOS??:D

[LEGEND]

reminds me of SHIMORA...anyone remember him??? The great ninja???

[Gabriel]

MMA
Its all WWF type stuff


GUHAHAHAHAHAHAH


;)

[Unstoppable]

HUA TIEN YOU ARE A LIAR I AM NOT A JOKE MY SIFUS SITE IS NOT A JOKE WE ARE REAL MAISTS AND I JUST WANT TO DISCUSS TECHNIQ


Anerlich i thinkDana Wonf is in City right? I neve even HEARD of DEL FISHER I AM IN DANDENONG!!!!!! WHO IS DEL FISHER WHERE DOES SHE LIVE

PS ANERLICH look at these guys they Are CRAZY!???

www.shaolin.com.au

HAVE YOU HEARD OF THEM?

[Kevin73]

Ok, lets all do a little math here and see how idiotic the claims really are. ALL BASED ON FACTS FROM THE WEBSITE!

1) was born in 1970, so he is only 31/32 yrs old (depending on what part of the year he was born) So he is a Grandmaster at that age?

2) He started training with Peter in 1989, but Peter died in 1995.
That means he has only trained in this style for 6 yrs of formal instruction, and claims to be the Grandmaster of it?

3) One tech described takes 19-24 yrs to learn, yet even if that was the first thing he learned, he has only been practising it for 13 yrs. Or does he teach you things that he can't make work for himself yet?

Even if this site was a joke, it sucks at least do better math. If it is serious, then you need to take a real hard look in the mirror or do some sparring with someone outside your style to see how well you do.

[Unstoppable]

I DONT THINK YOU UNDERSTAND ANYTHING AT ALL KEVIN

Sifu Nelson was ALREADY AN EXPERT IN MANY MARTIAL ARTS before he began TRAINING with Peter! THIS MEANT HE COULD LEARN THINGS VERY QUICKLY (also because of his SKILL)!!!

MAYBE before you should start TALKING about who can do MATHS or Not you Shoul learn to READ WHAT YOUR ACCUSING!!!!!!!!! MORON!!!!!!!!
:rolleyes:

PLUS IT takes 19-24 years FOR SOMEONE WHO IS TRAINING IN the way That most Normal People would Train with Sifu Nelson NOT WHO IS TRAINING 24/7 as personal DISCIPLE

Geez man You look pretty Stupid now don't YOou?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

hey ralek.

missed ya buddy.

[Unstoppable]

I AM NOT RALEK RALEK IS NOT FROM DANDENONG WHAT ARWE YOU STUPID? HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING BEFROE YOU UNDERSTAND????????:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ewallace]

We are the first American Martial Arts school
Please explain that. Caps Lock will not be necessary.

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by LEGEND

Ralek=Unstoppable.

Aw, Man! I wanted to call that one - been thinking that since Friday. Now we know what he's been up to all this time...too bad the joke has to end. BTW, "LISA" has to be another clone...showed up at just the right time...not to mention "Kay K," who concidentally "has a brother that studies Tai Chi" yeah right, but she's in Kempo... not!

-FJ

[Hau Tien]

Umm... Lisa's not a clone. She's my fiancee and is quite real:P

[fa_jing]

Hau Tien- Aargh!, I keep being mean to you for no bleeping reason! What is wrong with me???? :( :p Of course, you were on that thread (now deleted), that's why she showed up at that time! The thing is, sometimes a troll invents a personality that actually disagrees with themself, it is like throwing a red herring.
My apologies to you and yours!!!!

-FJ

[Hau Tien]

lol... no worries, man... I've seen many a troll do what you describe before:)

This troll is particularly great if you manage to catch him in chat:) I quite enjoyed seeing him the other night... hehehe

[fa_jing]

This troll is pretty darn entertaining, I have to give him that...

-FJ

[anerlich]

Anerlich i thinkDana Wonf is in City right? I neve even HEARD of DEL FISHER I AM IN DANDENONG!!!!!! WHO IS DEL FISHER WHERE DOES SHE LIVE

Use the Yellow pages, let your fingers do the walking. Or check the school listings in Blitz magazine. Del Fisher's a guy (like you didn't know), was a longtime student of William Cheung, now runs his own school. Instead of studying KF with an imaginary Sifu in Minnesota, maybe look for a good teacher closer to home?

BTW, your Sifu doesn't appear to have the phone on in Bovey, according to whitepages.com ... is he non-existent, or does he have an unlisted number because he works undercover for the CIA?

PS ANERLICH look at these guys they Are CRAZY!???
Stop trying to change the subject. You still haven't told me who this "Grandmaster Johnny Chow" is that your Sifu allegedly beat down ... or is he another imaginary friend?

Unstoppable ain't Ralek, guys. Ralek was never this imaginative or amusing.


PLUS IT takes 19-24 years FOR SOMEONE WHO IS TRAINING IN the way That most Normal People would Train with Sifu Nelson NOT WHO IS TRAINING 24/7 as personal DISCIPLE
So how long do you expect to take to learn it as a "cyber student" with the videos?

[beautifulvaley]

step in the ring and find out if its real or just to wimpy and non realstic

[Kevin73]

Nope, sorry I don't feel stupid or like a moron I just feel sorry for you that is all. I really doubt that you have spent 2 decades plus in the Martial Arts.

I tried doing a search on Grandmaster Johnny Chow and can't find anything about him at all, what organization is he with?

I understood EXACTLY what I read on the site (took me a couple times though, I'm used to people using spell check and using proper grammar) There are alot of holes in it, like what organization/event the "World Muay Thai Championship" took place in. Also, this mysterious old man (Peter Zhang) didn't have any other students and suddenly decided to take on Sir Thom and train him 24/7?

This website reads like a bad plotline for a cheesey chop socky flick, I can see why he sings the blues.

Are/Have you ever trained personally with Thom or only through his videos?

[Unstoppable]

fa jing:

"Aw, Man! I wanted to call that one - been thinking that since Friday. Now we know what he's been up to all this time...too bad the joke has to end. BTW, "LISA" has to be another clone...showed up at just the right time...not to mention "Kay K," who concidentally "has a brother that studies Tai Chi" yeah right, but she's in Kempo... not!"

AWWW MAN YOU LOSE! i am Not Ralek plus Lisa is not Ralek (I think she Likes me so She is not Me either) I SPOKE TO LISA AND HAU TIEN AND GARY AND WENDY AND XEBSBALL AND . AND FALIPE BIDO ANMD KEN AND BRADEN AND KAITIAN AND MANY OTHERS IN CHAT they Know i am Not Ralek may be Its YOU who's Ralek that would Explain why You are so LAUGHABL:ER!

FA JING=RALEK (Or...,?)

Hey Anerlich we meat again. About "Sifu Nelson" s phone number is unlixted, what??? I dont kno much about AMerican style Phone books (maybe he is in a Different part) I already have his number from him direct!! I will ask him about the "unlisted" no#. ... maybe when I speak on the Phone to him (which I will soon (we will laugh about You I bet). Who Knows MAYBE he does have undercover missions. LOL JK

Ewallace (cool name) about the "First American Martial Arts School" OBVIOUSLY it doesnt mean we are the "frist ever" it means we are the BEST We are #1!!!! Web site just Bragging!!

About Johnny Chow I dont know why he is not There (on the international web). He must Have been "erased from the database"??? I Will check again about Johnny Chow. I Dont know much about his history!! I Think I heard he does Phoenix style Kung Fu. I will Check 4 U (whoever said it!!!!).

Hau Tien and Kaitain will u please say that I am not a troll !!! I am sick of all This troll cr@p!!! I just want To post on KFOnline message boards NOT be yelled at ALL the time. I Try to post good suggestsions. Please tell EVERY body I am not a troll mates. THANX TTFN

[anerlich]

This thread is just too funny!


Who Knows MAYBE he does have undercover missions.

I think the term you are looking for may be "nocturnal emissions".

[Unstoppable]

Yeah I think He has Done some missions at Night time.Yeah I think He has Done some missions at Night time.

TTFN

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Hey, Hackney had Gracies foot IN HIS HAND and was set for a crippling, fight ending ankle lock that Gracie would NEVER have been able to escape, withou a broken ankel that is, yet he just sat there like a Dummb ass.


I'm sorry, but that has to be one of the most clueless statements I have heard in quite a while

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Unstoppable
Yeah I think He has Done some missions at Night time.Yeah I think He has Done some missions at Night time.

TTFN

I'........m in t e a rs:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Mr Punch]

And yeah, there may be some fixes like in most sports, but I saw Pride 21 live last Sunday and that convinced me.

The good fights were painful: if anyone could act that well they would be in Hollywood.

The rest (most of them) were of disappointingly ****-poor standard: if they were fakes nobody would pay such a ludicrous amount of money to watch them more than once.

I'm very very tempted to start training for this fight game... seeing the standard and knowing my capabilities, weak points... and the prize money involved!

[Merryprankster]

Mat--

Sometimes, ugly is no indication of how good people are. Go ahead and train, but don't underestimate how good some of those guys are. John Smith was slick as all get out, Alexander Karelin won as ugly as they come--nothing pretty about it....Same with Royce Alger when he wrestled at an international level. Success is success even if it's not asthetically pleasing.

I do agree, however, that some of them don't belong there. I remember a fight between a popular prowrestler with 0 MMA experience and somebody who was very experienced. Ugh...

[Mr Punch]

Hi.

'Ugly'. Didn't use the word.

It seems as though you are assuming that because I haven't trained specifically with an aim to compete in MMA tournaments that I haven't sparred/trained with people from different arts. And my kungfu and my grappling look like ****, but they seem to work enough to make me a happy bunny!

In general, I know the difference between a strike with power, and a strike without power, a well-timed strike and a badly-timed strike, a good position on the ground and a bad position on the ground... etc. And I often can see when what looks like a bad move is simply a move which is thwarted by a better move. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm not saying I know everything about it, and as you said in another post sometimes a spectator can see moves that the fighter can't...

BUT in this particular tournament (I have been to others) there was a very poor standard. If you want to chat about it, I can go into specifics from some of the fights (has it been shown yet in the States?)

I was sitting about 9 rows from the ring, and in case I couldn't see what was happening there as the ref/cameraman was in the way, there were some really very very big screens, plus I went with a professional who had some good points about things I missed.

[Unmatchable]

I just think there is a big difference between the kind of thing that goes on inside the metaphysical perimeter that makes something an 'art', and what goes on outside of it. Reality just wont fit into a cage, no matter how much you try to bend the rules. Because, when there really arent any rules at all, when there isnt any boundary on whats going on, then things will get out of control in every way possible, and the necessary means expand to include any relevant form of non cooperation, economic, political or non conventional, limited only by the creativity, ruthlessness and practical resources of the involved parties. And effectiveness in such situations is more about having a solid grasp of reality than having a trained technical capacity to incapacitate an unarmed or lightly armed individual. I am not saying that the skills of martial arts dont sometimes become relevant in certain particular cases, but I dont think it is wise to live in a fantasy world where one mistakes the king of the ring for the king of the world. Any kind of misconception about the nature of reality is a liability, and martial arts practice seems to have a dangerous potential to generate a form of ignorance leading people to think that being able to kick ass makes them powerful.


BTW, The first UFC was like a cartoon!

The real question is, would you run if faced by any of them in the street?

[Merryprankster]

Mat--fair enough--I made an incorrect extrapolation that I shouldn't have. My apologies. I never assumed that you hadn't sparred other styles. I made an assumption that when you said ****-poor, you were equating "ugly," with lack of skill. Because some of the fights are ugly, and look ugly and there isn't anything pretty about them. Many people infer that the participants in such events are unskilled because it doesn't look nice. That was where I thought you were going--clearly, however, you weren't.

Again--My bad :)


Unmatchable--reality won't fit in the kwoon either. I don't think any sportfighter thinks that their ability to FIGHT necessarily translates into self-defense. Totally different issues, involving, as you pointed out using your head more than your fight skills.

[MA fanatic]

OK, first of all, no NHB competitor ever said that NHB is street fighters. As a matter of fact, NHB and/or MMA competitors see themselves as professional athletes and demand for the sport to be sanctioned in all states. Of course it's real. Sure, as in any sport, there have been fixed matches. There is also such a thing as Japanese WWF style wrestling. On a few occasions some NBH fighters have been asked to make a guest appearance and fight Fake Wrestling matches (Ken Shamrok did it, Severn did it, even Tank Abbot did it). But, Pride, UFC, Rings, Hook and Shoot, IFC, IVC, and Pancration competitions are very real. As for street fighting, trust me, these guys would rock on the street. They would do better in a street fight than 98% of the so called martial arts masters teaching 'street fighting.' These guys are conditioned, willing to trade blows, psychologically ready to fight, and are skilled in all attributes needed to defeat an apponent in a real life altercation (strikes, throws, joint manipulations, strangulations, and chokes). They are also skilled in all ranges of combat (kicking range, striking range, clinching range and ground grappling range). If I had to fight on the street, I'd rather have someone like Sakuraba next to me than Grandmaster William Cheung who got taken down by a mediocre college wrestler.
MA fanatic
PS Don't believe the old Chinese Master Challenge Matches. Most are a bunch of unproven ballogne.

[Knifefighter]

For those of you who criticize MMA/NHB as having low standards of fighters with few skills, being unrealistic compared to the street, being fake, having too many rules, etc--- Yet have never competed in these events........

You are truly clueless.

You are like I was when I was 17 or 18, watching boxing matches and thinking I could outbox those guys, although I had never actually entered a boxing match. The first time I entered a boxing tourney, I learned how good those "below average" boxers really were.

Until you have been in there, I guarantee you don't have a friggen clue about how hard it is. If you really think the standards are low, get in there and fight--- NOW, not at some distant time in the future "when you have trained longer." At the amateur level, many MMA fighters have trained much less than you have. There are plenty of amateur events that are looking for people who want to fight. Until you have been there, shut the frick up about how the standards are low, it's not like the street, there are too many rules, etc., ect., ad nauseum

As far as it being different from the street, yes it is. The street has more variables, but many times the street can be much easier. I've been in my share of both MMA and street encounters both with and without weapons. In the so-called "sporting events with rules", as many of you deride them, I've had my arm broken, my knee ligaments torn, and had a whole host of other injuries including some permanent eye damage.

In the "dangerous" streets, I've had guns and knives pulled on me, and have had encounters against multiple opponents, yet I've never had a single injury.

[MA fanatic]

The reason many think that NHB fighters lack skill, is because one rarely sees them pull off some of the flashier martial arts techniques. Why? Because they don't work. Trapping doesn't work. Fancy kicks, don't work. Circular sweeps, don't work or have you on the ground in a bad position. Techniques from animal systems would not work against a trained fighter. Wrist locks, wrist throws, and virtually all stand up submissions don't work. Not against anyone trained. Pressure points will fail you against a trained fighter. Many have tried all those techniques and have failed. That is why present NHB fighter stick to those techniques which have a higher percentage of working. They stick to Muay Thai style stand up and bjj, shooto style ground game. Feel free to get into any mma competition at a biginnger level (there are plenty just hook up with some promoters through www.mixedmartialarts.com UNDERGROUND FORUM) and the ring is yours. You'll see reality hit you right in the face. lol
MA fanatic

[Braden]

"Trapping doesn't work."

What counts as trapping?

"Fancy kicks, don't work."

What counts as a fancy kick?

"Techniques from animal systems would not work against a trained fighter."

So if someone does a jab, but trains in a style named after an animal, the jab won't work?

"Wrist locks, wrist throws, and virtually all stand up submissions don't work."

How about flying armbars?

"Pressure points will fail you against a trained fighter."

What counts as pressure points?

[MA fanatic]

We can play the somantic game for a long time. I think you know exactly what I mean by trapping hands, wrist locks, fancy kicks and animal style strikes. As for flying arm bars, I have seen a grappler named Ricco Rodriques (the man who beat Morilo Bustamante in Abu Dhabbi) actually pull that one off in a submission tournament. I have also seen Judo guys pull that off. It's much different than a wrist lock. Even then, most grapplers will tell you NOT to try flying armbars and flying triangle chokes unless they guy is clueless or half KOed. As for kicks which have a low percentage of working, they are: Ax kicks, spin kicks, crecent kicks, slidding or skipping side kicks...actually side kicks are an invitation to be taken down, front kicks wont stop most good fighters, and hurricaine kicks (you'll get taken down in mid air). Kicks that work: Low round kick. Thai kick. High round kick. Fast push kick. Fast push kick to face level. As for hand strikes, no strike resembling an animal claw, beak, or any other part of an animals body will work. Not against experienced NHB fighters. And, most animal stylists, unless trained in boxing, will not have an effective jab. Wrist locks will fail you. What else. Oh, trapping. I think you know what I meant by trapping. OK, let me elaborate. Any trapping taught in Wing Chun. One more thing. Some styles believe that a punch can be caught in mid air and some sort of counter can be exicuted from that catch (aikido guys, hapkido guys, and some other styles teach this type of garbage). Forget about it.
MA fanatic

[Braden]

Just so I get this straight:

You're saying standing grappling doesn't work. But you think flying armbars are A-OK, whereas a wrist lock is ridiculous?

You're saying that complex kicks don't work. Specifically, crescent kicks don't work, but head level thai kicks are just fine.

Only boxers know how to jab.

And by 'trapping' not working, you mean specifically 'wing chun' doesn't work.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured.

[MA fanatic]

Braden:
Are you having trouble reading? Just reread my post and you'll see exactly what I'm trying to say. Wing Chun trapping does not work. Not against NHB fighters. You're welcome to try it, but I wouldn't if I were you. Yes, wrist locks don't work. Well, unless the guy is completely drunk, weighs less than you do and is needing to be escorted out of a bar, but offers no resistance. I didn't say that flying armbars work. I said that a few have used them successfully. If you read my post carefully instead of trying to attack it with some somantic game, you'll read that I wrote that most grapplers will tell you "NOT" to use flying armbars and flying triagle chokes. Those are show techniques. Yes, high round kicks work when timed. Crecent kicks will fail. There is too much of an arch and you'll get caught on an elbow if you try it on anyone who had trained in Muay Thai for over 4 months. You'll get taken down even faster by a mediocre grappler. High round kicks, or high thai kicks are easier to time. I'm not sure what is it that you don't understand or disagree with. Most who have any NHB fighting experience will agree with me. I'm talking high VS. low percentage techniques. Certainly now and then any technique can land. People have scored with spin kicks in NHB. But, majority will wind up on the ground. I'm pretty sure that those who argue with me on these points have never been in an NHB arena.
MA fanatic

[Braden]

I'm picking on your semantics because it's your semantics that is lacking.

You said, "fancy kicks don't work" when you meant "kicks from styles other than muay thai don't work."

You said, "trapping doesn't work" when you meant "wing chun doesn't work."

You said "stand up submissions don't work," when you meant "stand up submissions outside of BJJ and wrestling" don't work.

I'm still not sure what you think "pressure points" and "animal techniques" entail.

I'm just asking you to say what you mean. Is that a semantics game?

[MA fanatic]

As for the Boxers Jab. I'd say that on an average, a boxer can jab (by jab I mean have bower, timing, distancing, angle, and set up) light years more effectivelly than any traditional martial artist. If I were to put a boxer and a kung fu fighter against one another, telling both to strictly use jabs, I'd put my money down on the boxer.

I love it when people try to play word (somantic games) when they realize that someone is making sense. If you think that any of the techniques I critiqued will work, please, step into the ring and try. Just be carefull.
MA fanatic

[MA fanatic]

What are you talking about? I listed names of techniques and some categories. Yes, basics work best. Though, complex techniques have been pulled off. But, that is an exception and not the norm. What is your point?
MA fanatic

[Merryprankster]

You guys are both talking past each other :) Can I play mediator? I've had lots of experience translating MMA to TMA and vice versa:D

[Braden]

MP - All I'm asking is for logical consistency. He says simple works and complex doesn't, but then his breakdown of what works and what doesn't has absolutely no relation to simplicity.

[Merryprankster]

Eh, yes and no. We can all point to successful examples of flash, but I think we'll all agree that the basics usually get the job done. I just don't think MA Fanatic's done a very good job expressing that.....

I would personally consider flying anythings to be well outside the idea of the basics :)....

[Braden]

I don't understand what you're refering to with "yes and no."

[Merryprankster]

His breakdown of what works and what doesn't is sort of a both yes and no.

On the other hand, I also agree that he is clearly biased...

[Braden]

I'm still not following.

I've never made any statements whatsoever as to what I feel works and doesn't, nor any disagreements as to his assessment.

The only thing I've attacked is his logic. He says 'simple works, complex doesn't.' And then he says, for example: crescent kicks don't work, high level thai kicks do. He elaborates talking about the particular arc of one and how it leaves you open to an elbow. This is clearly not an issue of simplicity. If we are to go by his elaborations, it's quite clear he does not believe that utility is proportional to simplicity, but rather he believes a few styles are technically superior. That's fine, if he'd said that in the first place, I'd never have posted.

[Merryprankster]

Fair enough.

[Braden]

FWIW, I do believe very strongly that very simple/very basic is what will work for me. It is one of a few important beliefs which lead me to the style I study.

[MA fanatic]

My original post was quite clear. I never mentioned style. I simply mentioned which techniques work and which will fail. I stated that trapping, wrist locks, fancy kicks etc. etc. would fail against a trained fighter. Then I have you challenge my statements bringing in options like flying armbars, or making statements about a "boxer's jab" and another stylist's jab. You asked for specifics about which trapping I meant. You asked specifics about which "fancy kicks" I was talking about. So I answered. I think if you show my original post to most people, they would understand completely what is being said. As for compexity working, all I have said is that people have pulled compex techniques off. But, those have less chance of working. What is so hard to understand? Yes, spin kicks have landed. Yes flying armbars have been successful now and then (I even mentioned the artists who used them). Yes, perhaps a wrist lock can work from time to time. Yes, kung fu artist's jab may land (but not as effectively as a boxer's jab). So what? Chances are if you're in an MMA match you'll keep it simple, depend on power, speed, timing, distance, accuracy, conditioning, strength and endurance. Like I said, if you want to try something flashy, go for it. If it lands, it will make a better show. I'd love to see it. However, on the most part, it wont. As for some styles being superior to others, you need only to reread my posts to see that I was referring to techniques.
MA fanatic

[MA fanatic]

MA fanatic
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2002
Location:
Posts: 197
Most MA techniques don't work
The reason many think that NHB fighters lack skill, is because one rarely sees them pull off some of the flashier martial arts techniques. Why? Because they don't work. Trapping doesn't work. Fancy kicks, don't work. Circular sweeps, don't work or have you on the ground in a bad position. Techniques from animal systems would not work against a trained fighter. Wrist locks, wrist throws, and virtually all stand up submissions don't work. Not against anyone trained. Pressure points will fail you against a trained fighter. Many have tried all those techniques and have failed. That is why present NHB fighter stick to those techniques which have a higher percentage of working. They stick to Muay Thai style stand up and bjj, shooto style ground game. Feel free to get into any mma competition at a biginnger level (there are plenty just hook up with some promoters through mixedmartialarts.com UNDERGROUND FORUM) and the ring is yours. You'll see reality hit you right in the face. lol
MA fanatic



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07-12-2002 03:10 AM



Braden
Don't Take Me Seriously

Registered: Jan 1970
Location:
Posts: 800
"Trapping doesn't work."

What counts as trapping?

"Fancy kicks, don't work."

What counts as a fancy kick?

"Techniques from animal systems would not work against a trained fighter."

So if someone does a jab, but trains in a style named after an animal, the jab won't work?

"Wrist locks, wrist throws, and virtually all stand up submissions don't work."

How about flying armbars?

"Pressure points will fail you against a trained fighter."

What counts as pressure points?


Last edited by Braden on 07-12-2002 at 03:26 AM

[Braden]

I wrote: "I've never made any statements whatsoever as to what I feel works and doesn't, nor any disagreements as to his assessment."

You replied: "As for compexity working, all I have said is that people have pulled compex techniques off. But, those have less chance of working. What is so hard to understand?"

Why are you replying to statements that I explicitly pointed out I never made?

"My original post was quite clear."

Your original post used words like 'fancy' without any suggestion at all to what their meaning was. So I asked you to clarify what you meant...

"I never mentioned style."

...when, contrary to this assertion, you explicitly stated you meant specific styles work and other don't. I quote: "I think you know what I meant by trapping. OK, let me elaborate. Any trapping taught in Wing Chun."

"Chances are if you're in an MMA match you'll keep it simple"

This is what I believe, however when asked for elaboration, it's pretty clear this isn't what you believe, despite how you repeat it as a mantra. I made a distinct argument regarding simplicity and your analysis of the usefullness of two kicks. Why didn't you address it?

I said: "I do believe very strongly that very simple/very basic is what will work"

You say: "Like I said, if you want to try something flashy, go for it. If it lands, it will make a better show. I'd love to see it."

Are you actually reading my posts?

"As for some styles being superior to others, you need only to reread my posts to see that I was referring to techniques."

I quote again: "I think you know what I meant by trapping. OK, let me elaborate. Any trapping taught in Wing Chun."

Wing Chun is the name of a style, in case you were confused on that point.

[MA fanatic]

Braden: You can continue playing this somantic game and/or just playing dumb. I think most people know what a "fancy kick" is. Don't tell me that when you read me state "fancy kicks wont work" you actually wondered what a "fancy kick" was. If you had to guess, you may need some more martial arts exposure. I also think that by reading your post it was clear that you wanted to either put some new slant on my statements by asking me to ellaborate and challenging me. As for Wing Chun, you asked me what I meant by trapping, I replied, that I meant trapping like what is taught in Wing Chun (actually many kung fu, and even some kempo styles teach similar type trapping maneuvers). As for fancy techniques, if you don't edit my statements and actually take into account the theme of my paragraph, you'd see that I'm basically stating: Fancy techniques will most likely fail. Some have been pulled off, but that is the exception and not the rule. I also suggested that if you want to try a fancy move than 'go ahead.' Yes, it is true, I would love to see a fancy technique work. Yes, it does make for a good show. No one will disagree with me on that. I think that to most people, my posts are quite clear. But, there are always a few who need to have basic statements spoon fead. Or, they're trying to use somantics to back out of writen statements they made.
MA fanatic

[Braden]

"I also think that by reading your post it was clear that you wanted to either put some new slant on my statements by asking me to ellaborate and challenging me."

Actually, what I'd hoped is that you'd prove my assumptions about your views to be incorrect. No such luck though.

"if you don't edit my statements"

I used direct quotes.

And I wish you'd do the same, because you have continued your trend of replying to things I never said, and failing to reply to explicit questions and arguments I level at you.

[MA fanatic]

Actually, I believe I have answered all your questions. Some of your questions have been answered before you even asked them.
MA fanatic

[Order]

Greetings,

The martial art as a whole has lose the meaning of true fighting application not just Chinese martial art. The fact is that the phenomenon of today where Chinese martial arts shift away from fighting pratical into dancing art form or health form while others took the route of sport martial art competition are just the reflection of the condition of the world today affecting the direction of martial art development as a whole.

If the time of the world today is about couple hundreds or even thousand years ago, where weapons such as gun and bullet were not invented then the only way to survice and defense yourself are survival skill in martial art systems. These systems will range from hands, legs striking techniques to weapons like swords,staffs, arrows ... The objetive will be as finishing the fight as quick as you can with the possibility of multiple attackers in different terrances. The survival conditions will force many of us to deligently pratice the skill to survice; stimulating the mind in a creative way and physical body strength and inner spirit in such a way that no comparison of today. With that setting of the world, you are probably seeing more compedent representatives of Chinese martial artists. The rule of nature was "the strong and skill will survice".

The world today is different than then. Our sociality are more civial than before with law protecting the weak and the innocent. The defense skill are some times needed with how to draw the gun and shoot as quick as accuracy. The skill of hand and legs are obsolute. With that, some of martial art enthusiasts activities turned into the forms of sport tournaments, healths, dance presentations. By themselves, the input values of new age, turn them as a whole into entertainment events with rules or health exercises or form expresion of beauty. To me, they are just the reflection of life, as once were the old traditional ways.

Some of us, who are still trying to struggle to preserve the value of the old traditions, are some time discouraged by the process of humiliating by each other. But the fact are, there is no acception in these decay martial quality ages regardless which art. Because all of them are operating under a set predefined assumptiones while the true survival world are random and unpredictable.

The work that we are all contributing here, are somehow telling others that we all love the tradition and trying very hard to preserve these values while constantly practicing very hard ourself. I truely believe these are the only way to save the art within oneself and spreading by binding together like in this form of comunication.