OT: To our British friends.

[rogue]

What do you guys think about this?

The Battle of Britain part dux? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/06/23/wsumm23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/06/23/ixport.html)

Anyway didn't some German guy propose a unified Europe back in 1939? I think the idea lost steam sometime in the mid-1940s.

[Frank Exchange]

>> Anyway didn't some German guy propose a unified Europe back in 1939? I think the idea lost steam sometime in the mid-1940s. <<

Not really. Some guy proposed a unified Germany. Which happened to include France, Holland, Austria, Poland, Russia etc. It was not the European flag that flew in Paris, in the 1940s.

The issue of European Integration is quite tricky, I think most people in the UK are still undecided. No one wants to see an England governed by Brussels, we obviously want to keep control of our own country and traditions. But there are economic benefits, which are argued strongly on both sides.

The European passport is generally thought of as a good idea, for travel purposes, Europe is considered one big country. A Good Thing.

The EU Human Rights charter has forced some of Britains more unsavoury laws, relics of the past, to be brought to light and changed. A Good Thing.

Personally I dont have a problem with changing the currency and replacing pound sterling with Euros. Although the name is particularly uninspiring, I liked "Ecus", short for European Currency Unit, and also the name of very old traditional coinage.

There is a genuine worry about becoming part of a superstate, and our national identity becoming submerged. I dont think this is likely, but is an understandable concern.

To be honest, I am more concerned over our own governments penchant for treating its citizens as children, who need to be spied on for our own good.
Under the guise of combating terrorism and paedophiles, amendments were proposed recently to our RIP Act (Regulation of Investigatory Powers). They were kicked out after it was realised that it would give local councils, IRS, Ministries of Agriculture, Trade, Industry and pretty much any semi- and even non-governmental body powers to read the emails and phone records of any citizen. The freedom and privacy groups, as well as IT pundits and ISPs had a field day with this one, and there was a "humiliating climbdown" by the government.

The governent still wants to introduce ID cards for immigrants.

How things have changed. Did you know that only a hundred years or so ago, you didnt need to have a passport? You would just present yourself at the border of a country, announce you were a subject of Her Britannic Majesty, Queen Victoria, and they waved you through. That was when an Englishman's word meant something, ******. I digress.

[scotty1]

I think Blair's plan of blocking aid is, without hearing the details, the most stupid thing I've heard for a little while.

I don't see what the problem is with the EU Border Guard Corps.

If it eases the burden by sharing the cost etc. then surely that's a good thing? Or is the article implying that "foreigners" couldn't do the job properly?

[Liokault]

Who won the war any way? I work for a German company with all german bosses our national bank is more or less german run and the krauts even own rolls royce!!!!!!

Also I have Albanian refugees come round my street 10 at a time (5 each side of the street) begging for money.

I really feel this country is going to the dogs......And before any one says im racist my closest friend is an afro caribean guy and I have friends from lots of minorities......I just dont like to see my country get taken for a ride on such a huge scale.

[Liokault]

To bring this threat onto a martial art relivant level.

We have had several east european refugee/imigrants come and train with us and every one of them is very very tough. We had one guy come and train with us and dispite being tiny (like 5'0 or less and about 60 kilos) was an amazing wrestler with a great sweep. He took quite a few guys by suprise and didnt mind at all being droped hard....he just smiled got up and hacked away at the guys shins again with his sweep.

[DelicateSound]

Don't really see the relevance here - we'll all be Serb-Croat within 5 years..... :rolleyes:

Lio is right, this country is going to the dogs. But I'm planning on emigrating to Australia, so I'm OK. :D

As for the Euro Superstate. I disagree, merely on economic terms.

[Stacey]

anyone care for a root?

[rogue]

I was just wondering what you guys thought about it. So far the Brits I know here in the US and the ones my wife knows in the UK don't look at themselves as European, they're British. I have a hard time imagining them letting continentals patrol their borders.
I wonder how long it takes before French is the national language of the Euro-super-state?

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by rogue
What do you guys think about this?

Anyway didn't some German guy propose a unified Europe back in 1939? I think the idea lost steam sometime in the mid-1940s.

I think, guys, our dear US friend is referring to a certain little known would-be leader named Mr A. Hitler. Glad you got it Frank, but just thought I'd point it out for the others.

I thought it was funny...:rolleyes:

Well, not A-dolf but the comment...:( you know what I mean...!

AH (interesting initials!) proposed at one point a Europe united under a governmental model inspired by... guess who... the English. He said in Mein Kampf that the British had as close to a National Socialist (for any of you who are confused about political ideology, this is not the same as Socialist) government as he thought could be attained. He proposed just a few modifications (like the extermination of just about everyone else), and then a Europe united under all of us Aryans.


In direct relation to the question:

I am 'British' on my passport. I am English in heritage. I have some Irish family, I have some Scottish family (thankfully no Welsh family as far as I know - it's a joke Apoweyn!!:D ), and I still think of myself as English. My cultural references are all English, and in that I celebrate the diversity of Englishness. The English have always been a mongrel mix of a lot of tribes and invasions, look at the language, a mutated old German with Latin, old Danish, old French, and a few Celtic influences... That's me: English to the core!!!

However, since I've been in Asia, I've also come to think of myself as European, and with the exception of a couple of very good American friends and a Canadian girlfriend, I generally (and was surprised to) find that I have more of a shared attitude with the Frenchies, Danish and Swiss etc I've met over here! Strangely, I still haven't got on with most of the Germans here...

I think European unity is a good idea economically (in some aspects) and diplomatically. militaristically it's BS. We don't share a language apart from anything else. And the British Army are the hardest mofos in the world!!! And, no, French is never going to be a Europe-wide language, you wanna hear them themselves moan about the pollution of their language...!

We will never have European border guards. We're an island, we don't have any borders! The economic and logistic implications will always keep that in the realms of comic book/1984 superstate material.

Blair's aid-cutting programme is BS. But then I've always thought he was a wanker.

And basically, I'm with Frank on a 'common' sense approach to integration, and I too am more concerned with the UK govt feeling a necessity to baby-sit its citizens.

OK that's the reasoning, now the tirade!

Liokault.

You're a typical ***** racist. 'Krauts' in the same breath as basically saying 'one of my best friends is a ni*****'... Do you tell them to **** off, these 'refugees' (and why is refugees still a dirtier word than immigrant?), or report them to the police? Do you go to community meetings? Do you ever talk to anyone who can do anything about helping these people to reach a compromise level of integration, and if they can't reach that, deporting them or if they can't abide by law and community, putting them in prison? Do you ****! You just moan about the country going to the dogs! If you give a **** DO SOMETHING! Our industry was run-down by a series of ****witted leaders including that other great xenophobe Thatcher, which is the reason the krauts have got our ****ing companies.

DS:

if you're QUITTING the country, you've got no place making comments about it going to the dogs either! I'm in Japan now, but when I get back I want to use my problem-solving and -identification experience to er... solve problems!!! Because I am a patriot! All I notice from moaners is 'The country's going to dogs, I'm getting out': well **** off then! I love the country, so I sure as **** ain't gonna give it up! Of course, if you're really intending to emigrate to Oz cos you like Oz or because it isn't ****ing rainy season all year round fair enough!!!

And personally, I think Britain should have ZERO immigration, or as close to zero as is necessary to maintain the population at the level it is. The population keeps creeping up and we can't sustain it with our resource base and resource expenditure. No more! It's time Britain stopped its great guilt-trip or patronage or whatever the feelings are, and abandoned the 'Commonwealth' and all its notional spinoffs... it's not our problem! we shouldn't have to look after so many other country's people when we can't even look after ours!

There you go. Some opinion, some fact. Open the floodgates!

Rogue: I was bored today, so I wrote an essay. You'd better ****ing write more, having done a prime piece of ****stirring political trolling!!:rolleyes:

[diego]

i was watching a organized crime in europe special at the end a specialist? mentioned im pretty sure it was the eu?, when that comes into place whole familys of organized crime syndicates and i mean familys like serb russians etc, they are going to set up shop and besides the competition "read carbombings at safeway! ?if you guys have those:) :( " with the foriegnors opening store the chaos of reorganizing the euro blackmarket Basically will be phenomenal as not only will thier be infighting with the newcomers but all the mafias and syndicates already in place will start a world war within the criminal societies mathematically most likely tripling the present crime activity plagueing said nation!. I wasnt paying to much attention what the specialist told the reporter but im sure he mentioned eu and i definatly heard how euro will be damged quite possibly.

[scotty1]

Paragraphs are your friend man.

More of my opinion after I've had breakfast and woken up. :o

[rogue]

Wow Mat, a few times there you sounded just like Black Jack, JWT and myself. ;)

I've been to Belgium, it was as if after WWII someone said, "Hey let's build Brussels to look more dull than before the war!"

Well at least you don't have illegal immigrants suing you for dying while crossing the borders.

[guohuen]

Immigrants are cool! My best student ever was a Nicaraguan refugee. BTW, it wasn't a German flag that flew over Paris either. It was a national socialist workers party flag.

[Mr Punch]

... in the context of this thread, it matters, maybe that some of your friends are black, white, yellow, or kind of grubby and hairy (sorry GDA). Maybe. But the use of it to say 'I'm not a racist because...' is specious to say the least.

And the association of the words 'immigrant' and 'refugee' is still all-too-often negative.

I have nothing against immigrants, refugees or any other people who abide by the laws (well, the sensible laws anyway!;) ) of the land they live in... if they don't, they deserve punishment, thus in some cases, deportation, if neccessary back to whatever hell they came from.

By the way, my first statement is not true. I hate everyone! :eek: :p :D

[PHILBERT]

I thought Hitler was from Austria? He sure wasnt German when I took history.

[Shadow Dragon]

He was born in Austria, but than so was Friedrich Austerlitz ( aka Fred Astaire) & Arnold Schwarzenegger, plus many others.

Peace.

[PHILBERT]

And wasnt one of his parents actually part jewish or something?

[Shadow Dragon]

Philbert.

His grandmother was jewish.

But he learned to hate the jews when he was pennyless in Vienna, which still today is a big jewish centre.


Peace.

[Shadow Dragon]

FWIW.

Hitler gained German Citizenship on
26/Feb./1932.

Peace.