Best fighting range??

[Mr.Sleazy]

OK so here is a question for some friendly discussion.

Take a scenario - one untrained unarmed aggressive person much larger than yourself wants to mix it up with you, and there is no way to avoid the fight (just for the scenario's sake, you can't run away or whatever). There is definitely going to be a scrap.

What range would YOU prefer the fight to occur in, and what range do you feel is your strongest? (eg kicking, punching, clinching, grappling). Is there any particular range that minimizes the advantage of larger size?

Personally, I think an untrained fighter is most dangerous in punching and kicking range. For myself, I am learning Muay Thai and submission grappling, so I think I would try to close to the clinch and deal with them there with knees and elbows. If the clinch went to grappling, so be it, but I would try to stay upright if I could. Of course, at punching or kicking range I would still try to land some strikes, but feel that I would be safer at clinching or grappling range.

Any thoughts? Please, what I want to hear is what YOU would do, not what I have said wrong.

[Serpent]

Where is it? Does he have friends? Is it in the street, in a bar, where? There are a lot of enviromental factors and other variables that would affect the decision a person should make.

[Shadow Dragon]

I am with Serpent here, pls prvide more info.

Surroundings and other fighters also dictate fighting range and what techniques to use.

Peace.

P.S.: When mention "grappling" do you mean standup up or ground grappling/wrestling??

[KnightSabre]

I think it would all depend on what range you would be profficient in,

I don't think it would be a good idea for someone like a Thai boxer to take a bigger guy to the ground,he hasn't learnt any skills on the ground so what advantages would he have?

On the other hand a student of BJJ only,would also be silly to try and knock the guy out with kicks and punches.

Do what you do best.

I think this is where a MMA has an advantage,
He is able to fight effectively in all the ranges and can change the fight to suit him.
Say he starts to strike with the bigger guy but quickly finds that the guy is an efficient boxer,well he can then go to clinch range to negate the big guys striking advantage,if the bigger guy still has the advantage at this range,a take down can be executed and ground fighting skills can be called on.
If the bigger guy is still more effective at this range well then God help you cause you may be fighting Antonio Nogiura or some other big MMA star :).

[ged]

i've never tested it in real life, but i'm confident in a good elbow to the face.

[Royal Dragon]

Start long range where it's safe, if you can tke him fast and easy there, do it, if not move in to mid range with plans for escape. if yu cna take him ther do so, if not get in close elbow the stuffig out of him or Chi Na him into a tangled knot up close.

If all else fails, Throw him on his head :D

[dragontounge2]

Well since I practice wing chun I would get in nice and close but stay at an angle since hes bigger than me.

[scotty1]

I would f.art, punch from medium range, move around a lot, and if he wanted to clinch go uppercut and elbow crazy.

I'd try and end it as soon as possible because, well, it makes sense doesn't it?

I would also kick him in the knees a lot.

[guohuen]

Don't know about best, but what I like and works for me is to stay outside in long range and come in close in short range. I avoid middle range so my opponent has difficulty achieving full extention. So I can get almost full extention I come in low and rise.

[Mr.Sleazy]

Shadowdragon and Serpent:

Lets just make it as simple as possible, one larger opponent, no obstructions, no buddies, no weapons, in an open parking lot.

KnightSabre:

Good points - of course it depends on what range you feel most comfortable in. For me, it is clinching and ground, when I spar and stick at punching and kicking range I often just trade blows (yeah I am working on my defense, someday it will improve), which I would not want to do in my little scenario. Clinching and ground I feel is a little more "technical", in that to do damage, you need to do things in a very specific way.

Personally I like clinching because I can choose to either try to land knees and elbows (thai style), or go for a throw. I know going to the ground on cement would not be pleasant, but as long as I was not the one thrown there, I don't think I would have a huge objection to it.

Guohuen, I agree with you, I think the middle range is probably the most risky, at that range the bigger guy can punch, which I think would be most dangerous from an untrained opponent.

[Grappling-Insanity]

From my experience a large untrained person is most dangerous in punching range. But most ppl that are that much larger WILL throw there weight around a bit. So be prepared to be thrown around alot and slammed against things/thrown on the ground. I would just keep swinging and land in clinch eventually, then start kneeing.

But if you got friends w/ you a good rear naked choke from you and a fist flying from your buddy is a GREAT way to end a fight. But seriously ppl like that are the reason I keep a wepon on me at all times.

[shaolinboxer]

I would fantisize that I'd stay just out of stiking range, making him over extend to get at me and therefore voulnerable to finishing counters.

Second choice: knees and elbows.

[Stacey]

yeah, then I'd make sure my mana, str, and exp were up 60 points
and counter with a water type Pokemon."


Give me a break, everyone has a plan until they get hit. Just do it.

[guohuen]

Glue is bad for you.:rolleyes:

[LEGEND]

It depends on what u do naturally...for a wing chun guy...trap and hit hit hit hit, for a boxer hit hit hit hit, for a muy thai clinch and knee knee knee, for a grappler wrestle and break break break.

I'm a grappler...hehehe.

[dnc101]

In an open lot- I'd stay back a little and see what kind of a fighter I'm dealing with; get a feel for his strengths and weaknesses if possible. With bigger opponents I don't like medium/striking range. If I have to bridge the gap I usually try to stay in close and work the angles. Last thing I want to be doing with a bigger opponent is grappling, so I like to get to the side and prevent him tying up, neutralize his weapons while leaving mine fully effective.

And Stacy, we're not talking about a preplaned battle here. You are right that that's a sure plan for disaster. But there are general principles as well as preferences, and that is what I see people talking about here. Now, we all know that you Scotch- Irish are a bunch of drunks. So get a beer and lighten up.

Wait..., I'm Scotch- Irish, where's my beer? It was here a minute ago..............................................* %@#!

[LEGEND]

Why are u afraid to GRAPPLE a bigger stronger guy????

[Shadow Dragon]

In that sitaution I would stick to longer range and let him come to me.

This way I can remain more mobile and flexible to counter his attacks.

Yeah, I know I am chicken. :D

[dnc101]

Originally posted by LEGEND
Why are u afraid to GRAPPLE a bigger stronger guy????

'Cause I'm not verry good at it, if you just gotta know.

[Law of the Fist]

I think he should go train at Temple Kung-Fu and then he could handle anything!! Ha Ha.

[Rafael]

Its the one(s) your good at and can manipulae your opponent into. The focus needs to be on the individual


RF-

[BrentCarey]

As much as I dislike hypothetical scenarios, this one does raise an important point - range control. In this scenario, I find myself in an open parking lot with a large opponent. The correct range would place me at the other side of the parking lot.

I realize this isn't the point of the exercise, so I'll use my imagination. The opponent has a tractor beam that will not allow me to get ****her than 10 feet away.

I think we established that the opponent was untrained. Untrained and large implies a few very important points:

1) He will punch almost exclusively. He may try to grapple, but will only kick possibly if I go to the ground. OK.

2) When he punches, he will telegraph and punch wide. They all do. This wide punch and wide arm creates a short range blind spot big enough to drive a bus under.

3) He is slower than me.

I consider this an easy confrontation. Let's start with where I don't want to be:

1) At the end of his arm reach directly in front of him. He owns that area. I will go there only for a short time to get him to commit those big, long, slow arms.

2) Short range anywhere in his front 90 degrees. By short range I mean having my upper torso within about a foot of his upper torso. This area sets me up for grabs with thos big arms. If it comes down to his strength against mine, I will lose.

3) On the ground. If I go to the ground, it had better be on my terms and for a good reason.

Of course, there are many ways to skin this cat, but this how I would do it. This is also one of the most basic principles I teach my students about larger opponents. Incidentally, this is particularly applicable to children defending against an adult attacker, except that adults tend to be more interested in grabbing than punching when attacking children.

I would want to stay in front of one arm or another, but not both, staying just at the end of his punching range. This places me slightly off center for him, making it ineffective for him to punch me with both hands. This slows it down even further because I am only dealing with one fist and not two. For clarification, let's just say I'm staying in front of his right arm.

Staying low and dodging to the outside (my left) and blocking and hooking with my inside (right) hand, I keep his arm between his eyes and my punch with my left hand. Here I can step in to my striking range for a short time. My punch will go to the best available target depending on the size of the opponent and the amount of "padding" on the side of his mid/lower abdomen. In this position, I can use his right arm to block his left arm if necessary, and/or effect a takedown possibly (depending on a number of factors).

I find that I can get 2 or 3 rapid punches in at this range before the large/slow opponent pulls his arm back to cover the area. He won't really see what happened but will (probably) pull back in reaction to the strikes. This leaves his head exposed, me in range, and no left arm to worry about. However, his right arm is pulled back right in front of me.

Now it's time to take advantage of the MA principle that is rarely observed - minimum effective range. As long as I stay close to his right arm, he can't really strike with either hand. This puts me in a great position for a number of short range attacks before he has too much and either pushes me back or moves himself back.

If I wasn't successful in discouraging him in the first round (which lasted about 2-3 seconds, we do it again on the other side.

Anyway, my overall point is that the opponent has superior range. While it is possible to stay at the end of his striking range, if is difficult to counterattack from that distance. So, you end up playing the blocking game which you will eventually lose. Yes, you can kick from that range, but I would rather move in where he cannot effectively attack me - stacking the odds in my favor.

My preferred method is to start at his maximum range move quickly past his minimum range (striking at targets of opportunity along the way), counterattacking hard, then moving back. It is dangerous to stay at any range for more than about a second.

Peace,

Brent Carey

[Cableguy]

People should get passed this " oh no a big guy" attitude.
Martial artists with the attitude that because a guy is big he is tough and one shouldn't mess with him have already beaten themselves mentally.

The martial artist should do what he does best. If he is really that big he is going to be winded in a minute if you can just mix with him and avoid the big bombs. It doesn't matter how big your muscles are when they are exhausted and you can't use them.

The steak I eat usually is 100x the wieght of the knife I cut it with. and yet it still doesn't stand a chance

[No_Know]

For that situation first mentioned, fluxuate between punch range and kick range of opponent. Since only the end has effect I can avoid the end of the strikes to close (in and out if I choose). I'm too far out for a sweeping. I could hit their strikes. I would eventually go in, but behind, with a lock digit limb or neck. Weaken from the outside. Victory from within.

[beautifulvaley]

eye gouge
rip nipples off
the usual
there are no rules set in a street fight so why shoould u limit your self.
disable your opponent as soon as possible with the intent of killing and maming
____________________________
"its all tai chi"

[Mr Punch]

'people should get past this 'oh no, a big guy' attitude' TRUE

'... he's going to get winded in a minute' FALSE (maybe BS is a better expression!)

'why are you afraid to grapple a bigger stronger guy?' Well, duh, because he's bigger and stronger...!

I agree with the first statement. But to say that big guys are just gonna be Lumbering Oafs, well, I also agree with my tagline!

Depends what 'untrained' means... do you mean a complete couch potato? In that case I don't care what range he's at, I'll just **** him up, or laugh at him! But a lot of people nowadays, at least people in UK and here do some kind of training, and certainly the people who aren't gonna completely back down in the first place. i don't mean martial training, but gym, or whatever.

So, a bigger stronger guy is gonna whup my mediocre grappling skills unless I'm careful. He's bigger and stronger see?!

Furthermore, the guys I've had to beat down, or who have kicked the **** out of me in the past, who I'm quite sure were untrained, rarely threw big fat haymakers. From the shoulder, yes. More telegraphed than most martially trained strikes, yes. But planet sweepers, no!

[Mr Punch]

As Shaolinboxer! Hang about, let him come to me, try to get him to overextend, then use liberal elbow sprinklings, followed by me overextending him and dumping him on his ass anyway.

One good thing about bigger people, is they have bigger nerve points, to hopefully give me a bonus (albeit probably accidental!) in shocking the guy and keeping him off-kilter.

Oh, and Beautiful Valley, can you really rip someone's nipple off? :rolleyes:

[guohuen]

I agree with Mat about grappling larger opponents. I think this is why we also have striking arts. Much stronger is also a problem. I have a friend that has worked as a drywall man with his dad since he was 10 years old. In our twenties I had ten plus years of training. He had none. He was 1/2" shorter than me and only 20 lbs. heavier yet he could grab me by the waist, pick me up over his head and throw me.

[beautifulvaley]

course ya can
and if ya don't his girl friend gonna see the mark and think he's cheating on her..........narf narf
i don't really see why u fight if u play the game u have allready loss disable them quickly bacause u never know what they got up dere sleeve
_____________________________________________
"its all tai chi"

[African Tiger]

800 meters away is MY best fighting range. :)

One shot, one kill.

[gazza99]

2 ranges,
Fighting range
Non-fighting range

If I can touch any part of the person thats fighting range, if not, thats leaving range.......

Gary

[beautifulvaley]

ttt

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by African Tiger
800 meters away is MY best fighting range. :)

One shot, one kill.

Yeah, but I want to kill the ENEMY, not just somebody standing in front of me!!;) :D


Haven't seen you around for a bit Tiger...?

[oilslickman]

full distance is where he can't get you, but you can still quickly manouver to attack.
Big or small there is no fight when they can't see ya!
Let the Eyes have it :rolleyes: