southern mantis-spiritual?

[buddhistfist]

I am curious as to the spiritual components of southern mantis.Would you consider it an art for enlightnement (like tai chi or bagua) or strictly a fighting art?I know eventually all arts become spiritual but some arts have spiritual training from the start.Which area does mantis fall into?

Also, is southern mantis a buddhist or taoist art?

[Crimson Phoenix]

You know, I doubt that no true martial art has any purpose of enlightening you...it can, indeed, make you evolve, or have great benefits for your health, but these are "side-effects".
Martial arts were not meant to make you a good person, even if paradoxically this what seems to happens when practiced the right way...
That's just my personal opinion, but even more specifically you know Hakka, and their warrior blood, heart and spirit: I doubt that any Hakka art has the primary concern of enlightening you...
Just as original taiji and bagua (given that "original" means nothing, but you get what I'm saying) didn't care about philosophy, yin and yang or the yi-jing: they were martial arts, with martial purposes, and only then did practicionners who were more scholars than fighters find that yin and yang or the eight trigrams were concept that could suit these arts...
Dong Hai Chuan was illiterate as it seems...

[Hideous]

Well stated CP. A perfectly correct response to the question as it applies to SPM. First and foremost, a killing hand.



























Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[Ao Qin]

Hi Buddha Fist,

If you want a most excellent article on Southern Mantis and its "religious" side, look up this article - its is over 30 pages long, and deals with the socio-cultural / religious elements within what Daniel Amos (I think a tad mistakenly) calls a "cult".

"A Hong Kong's Southern Praying Mantis Cult".
Daniel M Amos (Ph.D.)
Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Volume 6, No. 4, 1997
PP. 30 - 61.

Happy reading!!!

[MantisWill]

I've been told by older practitioners, that after one learns the master forms, there is still qi gong and "spiritual" forms. Never really explained to me what that means; probably meditation.

[TenTigers]

some SPM schools practice San-Da, or so I've heard.

[Hideous]

TenTigers - some SPM schools practice San-Da, or so I've heard.

A correct understanding, my friend. Not necessarily part of the martial SPM curriculum proper. A cultural component rather than martial in most respects. In the same sense, the hand may properly be regarded as a cultural component of the whole. Really a matter of personal and cultural perspective, in my opinion. Sun Dar, and such things, are held inside by some and not held at all by others. The argument that without all cultural components and practices the hand is incomplete is spurious, in my opinion.

MantisWill - Never really explained to me what that means; probably meditation.

Not quite accurate; more of an error of completeness than false information, my friend. Certain practices are focused on harnessing and utilizing phenomena not generally recognized in contemporary western culture. Still other practices strive to detect, connect and harmonize with certain [things] as a means of increasing personal power. This is far from a complete and accurate overview of what your Si-hings were alluding to. Howsoever, it should provide you with the necessary insight to draw your own conclusions in the matter of how you personally value of such things.





























Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[fiercest tiger]

what has bettre hands bak mei or chu gar or are they the same?

wouldnt every schools hand be special regardless of style? As long as it teaches you to kill someone fast its a good hand to me!

[Hideous]

fiercest tiger - what has bettre hands bak mei or chu gar …

A very strange question from you, my friend. Not a matter of [what] but [who] at a certain level, would you not agree my friend? Even given the requirement for some level of skill to present in order to be properly considered reflective of the hand, what is it that fights, my friend, the method or the man? What criteria do you employ to decide the merits of each element and aspect of a hand in comparison to another hand? If you examine each gate from the perspective of a Cartesian coordinate system both inside looking out and outside looking in and all paths are accounted for then what defects could you possibly site to in order to declare one superior to the other? What significance do you ascribe to structures? Which do you most prize, artistic expression or functional practicality? What criteria do you use to compare two structures that accomplish the same task, cover the same angles, in order to judge one superior to the other? Do you value the end product structure above the internal action that caused the structure to form or do you more highly prize the hidden functions over that which is manifestly self evident?

fiercest tiger - or are they the same?

Is your question [Are they the same as externally presented forms, the visible?] or is your question [Are they the same with regard to how the resultant forms are created, the invisible?] or is your question [Are they the same with regard to how incoming forces are perceived and accommodated?] or is your question [Are they the same with regard to how force is configured and issued?] or is your question [Are they the same in that both hands contain similar technical and mechanical functional understandings?] or is your question [Are they the same in that they share a common combative or tactical belief system?] or is your question [Are they the same in that they hold the same ultimate intention?] or is your question [Are they the same in the sense they produce the identical final result?] or is your question [Are they the same in that the body internal eventually becomes shaped the same?] Just what is your question, my friend?

FT - wouldnt every schools hand be special regardless of style?

Wouldn’t every skilled individual’s hand within each and every school be special regardless of style, my friend?

FT - As long as it teaches you to kill someone fast its a good hand to me!

I add efficient and effective to the criteria listed above, my friend. Speed is a relative term and without a declared context is essentially meaningless, would you not agree, my friend? Fast in comparison to what? Efficient is understood to mean that cost in terms of energy expenditure v. outcome produced tilts in favor of a substantial outcome in response to a lesser energy expenditure . If a hand requires an individual to be [some amount] stronger and capable of energy expenditure [some amount above] that of the opponent then it is my opinion the hand is not efficient. Would you agree, my friend? Effective is understood to mean that the hand has the potential to resolve problems as they present across the whole spectrum of human movement and has the potential to do so efficiently. Of what value is a hand that requires an opponent’s movement be of [a certain characteristic, quality or nature]? Would you or would you not agree, my friend?














Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[fiercest tiger]

.

[Sui]

pak mei of course.hide if you know what we know then you would think so too. not the usual western cr@p hey f.t?

lets face it hide spm was invented to conquer pak mei but never did.the little brother was no mach for the die-low.

you prefer of course spm,don't you hide?come on be honest or you wouldn't be practicing or teaching it now,would you?

i personaly would like to say that spm has a lot to learn from the pak mei clan,but then again i may be bias.but am i of pak mei pai?what do you think f.t?;)

[fiercest tiger]

I like SPM thats true, i know some pak mei dont do much chi sau drills but prefer to blast through and dont care about sensing at all. ykm have sensing hands and we like to blast, so i guess it kinda has a mixture.

Any styles hand can be good in a trained skilled fighter! Doesnt have to be hakka hand, chu gar hand, could be garrys hand , hideous hand, sui fuw hand, buby hand if u know what im saying.

sui,

You crack me up Bro!:) But what would i know im YKM not bak mei so i cant answer.

Hideous,

Good post, thats what im saying.:)

[atari]

Sui
Are you sure that pak mei is the die-low? Lets look at it from easily available data and not through secret transmissions or legends and the like. Chu gar as an art has been known to be around before pak mei was invented. Now, it was CLC who gave it the name. Does the taoist pak mei really exist?? But then again some might argue that pak mei is more secretive.

Fiercest Tiger
I think that neither pak mei nor chu gar concentrates on chi sau drills. Well at least not in the level of wing chun. Both pak mei and chu gar tend to have chye sau though where the emphasis is on actually blasting through or swallowing explosively. Some sensitivity is required though but I think this sensitivity is alot less than say wing chun's or tai chi push hands, the mereunderstanding of the weakest angle of the opponents bridge is sufficient. The rationale is that if you have proper shock power with correct body mechanics its very difficult for the opponent to play sensitivity.

I guess my main point is that chu gar and pak mei have more in common when it comes to hand drills, the emphasis is more blasting than sensitivity. This is my experience but I know some pak mei and chu gar schools that emphasise "chi sau" instead. Superior of course if both are incorporated.

[tnwingtsun]

"Both pak mei and chu gar tend to have chye sau though where the emphasis is on actually blasting through or swallowing explosively."



My roots are in Bai Mei,latter when I studied Wingtsun I found
so many concepts intertwined that it was a constant battle
between,hey!,this is just like Bai Mei!!

WT (from what I have learned) has the concepts(swallow/spit/sink/float) that Bai Mei/SPM has.

They(WT) don't teach the grounding that BM/YKM/SPM focus on,that being said the WT sensitivity and fast defensive skills
are more important than the "Root",or as FT's Sifu says your kung-fu is only as good as your horse,this is a misconception
of the WT system,what I have found out is the WT footwork
is the main challenge,but as far as sensitivity from the start
WT out classes the BN/YKM/SPM from the start(as a begenier)
latter on the "Shock power" of the BM/YKM/SPM out classes
the WT/WC/VT beginer,if I had to take a crash course on defending myself/family in a fight tomorrow I would choose
WT because of the way its set up,it has "Shock power" also they just don't show you until you reach a high stage,yes,they have it,but BM/YKM/SPM teaches shock power and solidity over sensitivity first(from what I've seen),so from what I've seen both
are great killing hands,but in the end,if I was a bad arse MA I would choose BM/YKM/SPM first,then find a great WT/VT/WC
Sifu,blend both(yes,it can be done without emptying your cup)

Then go back to your roots.

Most people's blood type is A, B, O, maybe AB but ya got to have something unique flowing through your veins, ya got to have the blood type-L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y not only for your Sifu,your system(my family comes first for me) God/Mission/Buddy/Country but most of all you have to be loyal to your personal beliefs.



Which brings me to this question for the people on this forum that clam to be Bai Mei/Pak Mei/Bak Mei/SPM,why don't you post your Sifu's on your profiles??

Both of my Sifu's are loved and hated,I'm proud of them both,you guys should be proud of your Sifus and you should have the balls to show your schools in your profiles

Whats to hide,I have a friend(I met on this forum) thats welcome to hang his hat
in my house anytime,yet one of my Sifu's and one of his Sifu's
don't like each other,but we get along,and thats the way it should be,the "killing hand" is elementry to the healing hand,games are for kids,grow up and come out of the wood work!


I'll tell my friends what I do where I live,but if you hide behind a name and don't give out your school I'll A$$ume that you need to grow up,if your Sifu does not want you to name your school I can understand,I started Bai Mei in 1985,its funny how the Bai Mei/Pak Mei guys come out of the woodwork with hidden roots,or no roots.



Don,In Chattanooga

BTW excuse the typos,just got back from the beach,tired

[fiercest tiger]

Hi,

The drills i teach are not like wing chun chi sau rolling hands or what ever you call them. I dont believe that pak mei is just a punching range! It has trapping and sticking as its close range fighting same as chu gar they must have some drills also. Trapping works on sensitvity so both must be trained, but remember that every range has a purpose and one who can maintain his fighting range will win. All fighting ranges should be trained not just one or 2 ranges.

I think it depends on the training of the teacher and what he understands of his style when teaching it.

TN,

Nice post and i understand what you mean about wingchun to learn as a beginner as its effective thats for sure.:)

FT

[Sui]

atari,they are storys to which your mind[experiences]are to be your choice of the matter.you tend to seperate all that exsist within the spm/pm discussion for you to understand a way.but there are many ways to feel etc.

"Chu gar as an art has been known to be around before pak mei was invented."

that is a brave assumption for you know niether.

tn
ppl come here for many reasons.yours is a plea to know where you stand in the martial arts world.is safe a keyword for you.one may see it as to post your si-fu and school,a baost and really to come of what may?i take no pleasure to baost who and where [personaly] i learn k.f.i think it defeats the purpose of who we are.
am i wrong to assume this possible way?in all honesty of course.

[atari]

tnwingchun

Agreed, wing chun does have the swallow/spit/float/sink concept which is emphasised more in some non Yip Man branch wing chun. Most southern arts have some form of it eg Hung Gar has open/close/swallow/spit. Some wing chun emphasise the phoenix eye punch just like SPM eg pre Hong Kong Yip Man style. Many so called unique features of SPM are not really that. Another that comes to mind is the "tun hoong, sao kei bui" (swallow chest, concave of the back). In Taiji the classics it mentions "han xiong ba bei" or in Cantonese "hum hoong bat bui" (sucking in of the chest and raising the back).

About the anouncing of school and sifu, maybe you should take a more relaxed stance about it. I know I did not put that in my profile, but some of us do not have a formal school and famous sifus. I myself learnt some Chu Gar from my grand father who learnt it from his village in China. There is no formal school and things are learnt in an adhoc manner. There is no strict tradition or the like, it was just like a past time in which you do it if you liked it. Its just like fathers teaching their son's how to kick a football.

I do some discussion about computer programming in some dicussion boards but no one hassles me about who my computer programming teacher is or what school I went to to learn it.


Fiercest Tiger,
Yes, it all depends on the teacher. I agree that Bak Mei is not just punching as most of its techniques requires trapping, it follows the common saying of "if there is no bridge create a bridge, if a bridge exist destroy it." Some like to specialise but it looks like you like to be well rounded as indicated by your comments on the different ranges.

Why do you say that you don't know about bak mei? Your web page indicates that you teach most of the main bak mei forms anyway. The name might be different but YKM definitely do have strong roots in bak mei.

[atari]

Sui,

I may not know the true history of either bak mei or spm but my main point is the names "Pak Mei Pai" and "Chu Gar Gao". Which one came first?

Lets not take this die-low/sai-low business too seriously. They have very close roots anyway, brothers as you say. In fact I regard PM and SPM as closer than PM and dragon as some say.

[Sui]

atari,no you don't know the true history.

define seriously?to me or you?

brothers?a story.

well good for you that you find this,dragon is above such laymans.

p.s i believe we have met before,chu gar indeed.then how many forms are there from china?


tn i forgot to mention,pak mei is best to fight over w/c i would say.why?b/c its easier and quicker to work "ging lik" as to "lim lik",this is one of many reasons,but then again pak mei isn't the same as bak mei and dr wong knows this too.

pak mei lap shuiw and w/c chi sao is no comparison sooner or later it will turn to lap shuiw no doubt.

[fiercest tiger]

Yes bak mei and Ykm really are the same, although half the bak mei pai people here like to differ! So i try and stay out of this by saying i know jack about bak mei and talk about ykm, then people realise that its the same.

When i say wingchun at the start alot of ykm and bak mei school learn ma bo and postures at the start, but most wingchun schools i have sen they go straight into selfdefence techniques. Both are good!

Sui,

I understand your comment on the Lim Gik TO GING LIK, you do learn faster ging lik to lim gik. Would the body register before the mind?:)

anyway didnt chu gar have one form?

[tnwingtsun]

Sui.........


"tn i forgot to mention,pak mei is best to fight over w/c i would say.why?b/c its easier and quicker to work "ging lik" as to "lim lik",this is one of many reasons,but then again pak mei isn't the same as bak mei and dr wong knows this too."


From what I understand "Bai Mei" is the Manderian word for
"White Eyebrow"

"Bak Mei" and "Pak Mei" are Catonese words for "White Eyebrow"


"ging lik" as to "lim lik",translate this to english so I can follow what you're trying to say.

"pak mei lap shuiw and w/c chi sao is no comparison sooner or later it will turn to lap shuiw no doubt"

Please translate,my Chinese is very limited.



"tn
ppl come here for many reasons.yours is a plea to know where you stand in the martial arts world.is safe a keyword for you.one may see it as to post your si-fu and school,a baost and really to come of what may?i take no pleasure to baost who and where [personaly] i learn k.f.i think it defeats the purpose of who we are.
am i wrong to assume this possible way?in all honesty of course."

Sui,you are mistaken,I am not here to boast about my Sifus,lately
my first sifus name has been dragged through the dirt without merit.

My other Sifu/Wingtsun(Emin Bozstepe) has been dragged through the dirt for years,no problem there,I consider my Chinese father/teacher(Sifu) first and formost.
No pleas here.

Sui,I should have directed my comints("Boasts") toward the ppl responsible for the flaming posts,not aimed towards you,I've not seen you troll......Yet,read my post again,I'm not demanding that ppl list thier school or Sifus,only the ppl that stir up the $hit.


FT-WT does not roll chi-sao we penatrate.


atari-

"About the anouncing of school and sifu, maybe you should take a more relaxed stance about it. I know I did not put that in my profile, but some of us do not have a formal school and famous sifus. I myself learnt some Chu Gar from my grand father who learnt it from his village in China. There is no formal school and things are learnt in an adhoc manner. There is no strict tradition or the like, it was just like a past time in which you do it if you liked it. Its just like fathers teaching their son's how to kick a football."

I didn't know that my BM Sifu was famous until I had a work injury and found this forum a while back,I'm relaxed and thank you for the advice,my aim(see above) was to root out the trolls,
you nor Sui seem to be a troll,as a matter of fact I would like to thank you,Sui and FT for the advice and nice exchanges,a great change in a forum that sometimes gets discombobulated
;)

[CLOUD ONE]

Hey Sui you have a fan:D you going soft in your old age.
Maybe if you get banned you could become 'Su' as a 'j.m' then you might get more fans:D :D :D :D :D

tn, don't you find that to start in w.c you learn the sensitivity then the power to attackas in bil jee?
Where as p.m the power is practiced in the beginning then the sensitvity in sip bat mor?

Why is it that triads would pick spm or p.m to learn and not w.c?

'too many chefs spoil the broth' This is a saying which holds true to M.A, too many sifu makes the student greedy and not take the first sifu a) seriously b) incomplete in his own training c) useless
Yet it is so common these days. Either have one or all as sifu.

Similarities between W.C and P.M they both use one body two arms and two legs.:rolleyes:

[fiercest tiger]

Nice post bro!

TN,

I bet you like to penetrate?:)

[atari]

Sui,

Never claimed to be an expert or historian of chu gar or pak mei. Feel free to give your version.

How many forms? I don't know. Chu Gar is too vast to define how many forms. I never paid too much attention to forms, I practised more san sau. Some forms that I know includes jik bo, sarm bo jin, sarm jin yiu kiu, sarm moon, si moon luk hup, sip bart mor.

I gather you practise Pak Mei. How many forms have you?? What are some of your forms?

You have met me? WHere?

Also you say Pak Mei different from Bak Mei. Do you mean the chinese characters?

[Sui]

atari,i thought as much.mr original game console to play computer games you now need to up the level to ging lik,lim lik.but since you fell in that large hole you made for yourself,i now turn my back as you did with me.
p.s give robt aka rolling-hand a big hug from me while you down there.lol

cloud,lol man,as you can see had to turn over a new leaf and to run pure in my name.it seems you have too. nice posts on the w/c forum about TST[lim lik]care to explain it again to Tn so he may judge from what i say or you for that matter?

Tn you are not wrong just that your perspective has new light lets see if lim lik will unfold.or go to wing chun forum,the thread is........TST.also i think emin botez concentrates on speed body mechanics and not lim lik but i could be wrong.

[Sui]

f.t sorry i missed your post as i didn't think you were gonna respond.

i totally agree on ging lik lim lik.

and the chu ga well lets say is it long?;) p.s you know i'm not allowed to talk of them.i heard you can get VCD in ozz from china so why don't you by atari a copy.lol:D

[CLOUD ONE]

Hey f.T I bet you know what it's like to be penetrated:D :D :D

What's your real question to TN-' fancy a date mate'?;)

Only pulling your plonka!!!!

;)

Now Now Sui- you won't win any popularity contests with poor old atari if you are not nicey nicey:)
Nah sui he can go to the mountain freely, but you have to be escorted;) In the light of the past bosting about siFu can go horribly wrong:eek:
But since TN has faith then what has been said will be forgotten in the winds of time.

[Sui]

well cloud,i don't know if you've read it only[specific]come from the TST line of w/c.hows that so?what i mean is aren't the w/c community trying to become unified within the world?

i know of lim lik and i don't train w/c,but i have felt it from another guy starting at chi sao then to lap shuiw and yes he does study w/c[but don't know is lineage].
his reaction of lap shuiw was an eye opener for him also his chi sao has found new meaning.i'm not sure if its better or worse?what do you think?have you heard of lap shuiw?

[CLOUD ONE]

Sui-''what i mean is aren't the w/c community trying to become unified within the world?''

Even kids, grandkids and greatgrandkids have fallouts, such is human nature to segregate rather than integrate
:(

yes lap shuiw is more closer to the real deal although without chi sau what is lap shuiw?

Don't say that you know lim lik cause yuan fen will come on and say so does his sifu and so what about it?

[Sui]

cloud yes i understand you and yuan are lovers?just a joke don't report me please?

that nieve that chi sao is to result to lap sao?i begin at cross hands then lap,or is it that cross is chi sao?

ok i don't know it[lim lik]why are you worried what he dreams?agusting fong is his si-fu isn't it?why can't he know it[lim lik]for the sake of joining a conversation as good as that one?
i think a.fongs reach is to much for lim lik anyway but thats my opinion.:)

[yuanfen]

Don't say that you know lim lik cause yuan fen will come on and say so does his sifu and so what about it?


(((So does yuanfen and his advanced students))

[yuanfen]

cloud yes i understand you and yuan are lovers?just a joke don't report me please?
-----------------------------------------------------
joke? not a very good one.
Hope your kung fu is coming along better.

[Sui]

well well well look what the cat dragged in?yuan with his.....between his legs.lol

sorry yuan,look its no secret that we were lovers once, and its out of jelousey that i make that remark.

i have no doubt that you and your studens know lim lik but there is a underlining question whether you practice it or not?you and TST have chi saoed so you must know it from your perspective and thats fair enough for me,but coming on this thread about SPM-spiritual to re-enforce your lineage is of no bearing,now is it?we are not here to discuss your lineage,not unless you can relate to why lim lik is mentioned and why;on this thread?


a sector of SPM[no names] use/practice "lim lik",with ging lik of course.now yuan this has bearing to the thread wouldn't you say?
why?the spm sector are influenced by pak hok and tong long a lifetime ago or more?

the pm sector[no names]are influenced by pak hok and fu-jow/lung yau/etc.

the w/c sector[no names]are influenced by pak hok and sz-ar.

now yuan its up to you whether you beleive it or not or better still research it by asking some-one above your status in the w/c world,pm world and the spm world?personaly..........

[Yum Cha]

Perhaps Sui is trying to say that Guangzhou Pak Mei is different to HK Bak Mai?

Sui?

[yuanfen]

sorry yuan,look its no secret that we were lovers once, and its out of jelousey that i make that remark.

((I can understand the lack of spell check.The penchant for fatal attraction is your problem not mine))

we are not here to discuss your lineage,not unless you can relate to why lim lik is mentioned and why;on this thread?

((you or cloud are not the proprietors of this thread, nor set the rules for discussion. I just happened to see my name mentioned-
I might miss it in the future and you can join cloud up or down there for a while))


a sector of SPM[no names] use/practice "lim lik",with ging lik of course.now yuan this has bearing to the thread wouldn't you say?

((I would not be coming to you if I wanted to find out something reliable about SPM... and thats a big IF. Hideous and bong and others have been far more informative on kfo and I don't depend on kfo for insights on much))))Cheers and bye. Yuanfen
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Sui]

no,yuan you wouldn't of SPM but W/C you would.

from yip man there were ellegerly 4 students and ho kam ming wasn't any of them,why?i'll explain.

1st generation:leung seung/lok yui/wong sheung leung/tui shong tin.now these four ppl specified in different areas[abit like don't put all your apples in one basket]

2nd generation:yip chun/william cheung/leung tin/li shao lung/ho kam ming.these weren't as close to yip man as the first four.[from history and culture]

notice the order to yip man please?

so look where lim lik is lost from yip man to ho kam ming.then to a.fong then to you?only yip chun out of the second generation practice lim lik and is questioned wether his students do?p.s you call it nim lik where all the other call it lem or lim lik which is all so questionable.

now where i come in is unknown.the si-dai of yip man from futsan.did he know lim lik?of course he did or i wouldn't be flapping my lips.he of course was hak ga.and this is no secret to the w/c world but his name niether seek fame or fortune.

so the hak ga ppl had rhyms to now eg.about tst the king of SLT.
WSL the king of gong sao.LY the king stealth and LS the king of yips w/c.none of these rhyms reached the second generation only poor jokes,for they didn't work at there w/c again only yip chun did and the rest "power" greedy.

then to a.fongs generation it got worse acording to hak ga ppl.
one rhym was made up and it wasn't good[about 17 yrs ago]

the ryhm is simple:
"agusting fong does it wrong"

i know its a poor joke but i tottally understand why you have to constantly defend your lineage.

now if you:(((So does yuanfen and his advanced students)) then who's really to correct you....maybe TST i don't know.......but you have chi saoed with him,so you say.

so what else is there to say yuan?
i'll see you around maybe?

sui

p.s sorry if i offened as i've turned over a new leaf,and i try to keep my opinions to myself,maybe you should too?

pp.s sorry for my spelling mistakes:)

[Sui]

ahhh but yummy there is the first edition and second addition guangdao pak-mei.

which is yours my freind?

bak mei is cantonese pak mei.mainly taught buy ch.b.l

[Yum Cha]

Originally posted by Sui
ahhh but yummy there is the first edition and second addition guangdao pak-mei.

which is yours my freind?


Hmmm.... Well, that is a good question. I have recently made contact with a member of the family in Guangzhou, like a long-lost brother, and they have a few more patterns than we do, but essentially the same. Having not seen it, I can say little with authority. It has been 15 years since Sifu left Guangzhou, one would expect things to change a little. I suspect that we do either some older patterns, or patterns passed by a different Si Gung. Ours are generally rather short. Up and back, so to speak, with the exception of Say Mun Ba Qua, which is up and back 3 times, and makes you want to vomit if you do it full-on.

But that is only the patterns, and as we all know (or should know) the patterns do not make the style. The power makes the style. Patterns are just stepping stones along the path that we all walk alone.

You know, I can tell when you ask questions to which you already think you know the answer (most all of them) .... I hope I haven't disappointed you.

Now, answer this for me. I have a Hakka si di, his Grandfather was full blood, but he has no connection to his heritage. What can I do to help him?

[Sui]

why would you ever disappoint me?

to which you refer to as patterns,and how they are stepping stones.....etc?--i like that,however are they your own words or from your si-fu?

can you?a little psychic are you?then i'm glad you can tell me.lol

ok the riddle?
the answer lyes in the spirits for him?if he/she finds her,through the maze of merci and compassion then the herritage she will guide[sub conciousely]

or when i come to ozz to settle a score with f.t--we can have some tea;) and i'll see what his intentions are?

[fiercest tiger]

Well ill be too old when you get yo A$$ over here to gong sau! :p

We 1st got to kingscross for party and strippers your shout, oh i forgot you wouldnt shout if a shark bit you right? lol I only drink long island ice tea!!!!aight

here is my riddle

whats the difference between a elephant and a madderyogi?

its pretty deep!

peace to my westside and eastside connections.:)
FT

[TenTigers]

Okay guys, since it's MY birthday. 'an I can do whatever I want'cause it's MY birthday...I'm gonn grab this thread with both hands and drag it back to the topic-which was spiritual side of SPM. This was brought up briefly...nobody really wants to touch it...so of course I get to open up this can of worms ('cause it's my boit'day, remember?) Today's topic, boyz n gurlz is ...san-da.
There are some spm schools which are somehow connected with it, Mark Foon has mentioned it. Are all spm schools connected with it? Which ones are? and why? Does it date back to the Boxer Rebellion? Why is it still practiced? Has anyone ever seen it? Do you think that san-da causes schizophrenia? I have heard that pretty much everyone who gets involved with it, eventually gets unbalanced. Is Mark Foon ok? He seems to be. What experiences have you seen, or heard of ? I would LOVE for Gene Ching to do an article on this, but one in depth, not just alot of rhetoric.-um, no more vampire stories.(actually, I really liked the vampire stories;-) I know of one Sifu who wanted to learn San-Da. He was always looking for that magic pill, that silver bullet. He would jump from one style, to another, each one being the flavor of the week. Now he wants san-da. Truth is, HIS Sifu said he just never had faith in his gung-fu. Gung-fu is called that for a reason.

[fiercest tiger]

Its like a bad trip!

[CLOUD ONE]

Is there a difference in these two practices? For what purpose would you practice these?

Has anyone learn't them?

F.t have you experienced both(a trip and san-da)?

[fiercest tiger]

I usually blast some hammer and after i drop a tab of acid, i usually talk in tongues a few minutes later.

How about you?:) I heard you stuff is the best, i been getting it from sui fuw hakka connection?:D

[Yum Cha]

You make it here, I'll make the tea.

[atari]

Sui,

huh? I turn my back? robt?? rolling-hand??

*shrugs*

Well, I shall turn my back too.....nuff said.

[Sui]

:)
















---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------if a tree was to fall, and there were no-persons or animals to hear;would it make a noise???