What Southern style would it be good to study after Wing Chun?

[fa_jing]

I'm thinking Hung Gar would be a good one.

[Shaolin Master]

Hmm...

Hakka arts (Bak Mei, LongYing, YauGungMun, NamTonglong)
or Hokkien Crane would be an appropriate extension and development.

But....after sounds as if you finished...which is not necessarily correct is it

:)

[guohuen]

I'll put in a vote for Hung Gar. But of course Shaolin Masters reasoning is very appropriate also.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Definitely White Crane, so you can understand how watered down WC was heheheheheheh relax man, I'm joking!!!!
Still, Fujian White Crane would be a very good style after WC...but is there really an "after" in CMA?

[fa_jing]

Ok, not trying to stir up the pot, I just mean which styles would my understanding of wing chun help me pick up quickly. So styles with similarities.
I have not finished Wing Chun at all! Working very hard to develop myself to the maximum in this art. I just think that in 2-3 more years, I will stop going to regular classes for this and focus more on developing my Wing Chun on my own, with practice partners. I would still have the occasional private lesson, etc. I don't want to be a style collector, I just like getting exposure to other styles and expanding my horizons as far as development of my fighting characteristics. It's not the only way to do things, just something that I know I'll want to do for my own enjoyment.

-FJ

[fiercest tiger]

JUDO! As wingchun lacks ground skills unless some teacher has added it.

or you can flow straight into Jeet Kune Do....:cool:

[Sui]

i would say ba-gau.it will solve many angles to flow and help the w/c practitioner[some w/c natually finds it]just simple circle walking will open many eyes.

p.s not like these ppl they are way stuck in time and space.

http://www.lixiaolong.freeservers.com/pics.htm

and yes its from a forum i got banned from for swearing.to many real-deals spoil the froth.

heres looking at you robt.jesus you full of........lol

[Tsuruken]

Paihequan has a connection to Yongchun and wing Chun so it's a safe bet that this would be a good place to start but you'll need some luck finding a true and decent teacher.

[yuanfen]

JUDO! As wingchun lacks ground skills unless some teacher has added it.

or you can flow straight into Jeet Kune Do....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are in a good wing chun path- you dont need to add
judo or jkd.

i will go further- if you are ina good southern CMA- you dont need to add a sport (judo etc). Because of chasing sports many folks
are not learning the southern arts well. Same for northern arts-if you learn them well.

Good teachers and good students are more important than superficial knowledge of any art. For serious students getting a good teacher is worth the search.

[fiercest tiger]

If the wing chun practitioner knows how to maintain his range then yes no need, but its good to know some grappling!

FT

[yuanfen]

fiercest tiger- "grappling" has many meanings- wing chun has its functional equivalence. Given other dialogues- I have a sense of
what fajing is learning. he is far from the stage of really thinking of "after wing chun". But I have no problem with the thrust of his question
or the answers that he is getting. Everyone has an opinion! And based on answers so far he can do a multiple choice survey... do you like judo, jkd,cranes, bagua, grappling, all of the above, none of the above.
Floor is open to other advising ......or a laundry list.
I am out of the way of fajing's curiosity or its fulfillment.

[fiercest tiger]

so what would you say, Stick to wingchun?


Here in oz i have seen many wingchun sifus and hardley any do grappling mostly incorporated from BJJ or judo. I think wingchun has anti grappling moves but not much grappling itself. When i say this im talking form work, it may have kum la sau skills but not the ground work in the forms and it is evident. Now many wingchun relise this and they practise ground work to make them a well round fighter. Im not saying its incomplete but its a range not looked at as much in the wingchu system.

thanks
Garry
:)

[yuanfen]

I cant speak for the wizards of oz--they can do that themselves- there are good people there- know a few on the net..
Again, the key question is what do you mean by grappling. I dont want to grapple much witha grappler. "adjustment" is a very important principle in good wing chun. In a serious encounter rather thana sporting event- there are lots of things to do to someone who is bent on grapling. Please UFC is a sporting event.You mentioned- anti- grappling...depending on meaning- not a bad idea. If anyome wants to and has the time they should/could be a first class grappler. Why develop a silly broth of a little of this and a little of that and make combinations out of middling or mediocre achievements in each.. I am not arguing agisnt trying out things with different people. But it seems to me it takes some time to develop real "kung fu" in an art... zig zagging to pick up other things is time away from devloping greater skill. I know that other wing chun folks have different opinions- its a very diverse world.
I can only give you my considered opinion--- a well skilled martial artist from several southern hands wouldmt want anyone to touch them on a less than nice way. They should deal with that first touch. Those arts would include first class southern mantis and first class wing chun. But finding top flight teachers is not easy. Any way- good luck in whatever anyone chooses. Its their own responsibility- after all its their own neck... and key boarding wont help.(sorry no proofreading and my keyboard skills are minimal)

[fiercest tiger]

No one wants to be touched or grabbed thats true but it happenes and its real!

Anti grappling is counter against grappling, take downs, holds and submissions.

There are good wing chun here but all im saying is some do practise BJJ or some sort of grappling to enhance there wingchun.

Is that a bad thing?

[anton]

Try CLF. It is very different from WC, and gaining at least some proficiency in the core skills will make you a more rounded fighter. IMHO

[lungyuil]

If you are looking for a bridging style, wouldn't Fukien White Crane be your best option considering that Wing Chun is supposedly based on the Crane and Snake styles.

I don'y train in either, but it would make sense that you would want to utilize the earlier training.:)

[yuanfen]

fiercest tiger sez:There are good wing chun here but all im saying is some do practise BJJ or some sort of grappling to enhance there wingchun.

Is that a bad thing?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a bad thing. There is lots of diversity in wing chun lineages and what they do. For myself I would spend thetime in wing chun
and devlop more wung chun skills.

[Bolt]

I would have to agree with Shaolin Master.

[fa_jing]

Okay, let me clarify my question. As most have correctly guessed, I won't be giving up my wing chun classes anytime soon. I am just the curious type, I like that feeling of learning a fresh and new martial arts system, so I figure one day I'll study another CMA in earnest. I studied 7* mantis for 6 months a while back, and I gained much from the experience, but I don't feel that it will integrate well with WC. Right now, maybe in a few months I might invest in some videos, I was thinking maybe Hung Gar or another similar art. This train of thought came up when I was reading an interview with a WC master (don't remember who), who stated that the common assertion of Hung Gar people that "Hung Gar contains all of Wing Chun," was basically true, if the Hung Gar person were to study Tai Chi as well, they probably would have most of the WC skills covered, as the root of both styles lies in Southern Shaolin. So I am intrigued by the idea of studying another Southern art with similarities to Wing Chun. For instance, if these arts do share techniques, how does the other art teach me to use techniques that I already know from WC? If Hung Gar does truly "contain" WC, then studying it might point me in a possible direction of expanding WC, that's to say adding techniques, training methods, or tactics to my existing method. I don't want to tinker too much, maybe something here, something there. But believe me, the #1 way to increase my martial prowess is to continue my study of Wing Chun, I am maybe half-way through the curriculum I want to cover before really expanding my horizons with any other serious study. Like I said, I might look at some videos now, nothing more.

About JKD/Grappling/anti-grappling/sportfighting: I am already getting exposure to these from my modern/eclectic teacher. He has deep experience with these aspects as well as a strong background in WC Kuen. So the thrust here is not to identify other arts to fill in "holes" in the WC style, perceived or otherwise. I am learning the "WC way" right alongside other alternatives, it is up to me how I want to focus, which response is going to be my "automatic" response in various situations. I supplement my learning experience with readings and yes, the internet is a good source of information too. especially to find out about different emphases that my sifu may not expose us to.

-FJ

[dre_doggX]

Simple, will wingchuns main animals are snake and crane.

[HongKongPhooey]

I understand where the crane comes into wing chun but where is the snake element?

[dezhen2001]

can someone explain to me how exactly the snake and crane fit in to wing chun? As i'm not sure :) Of course we have bong sau (wing arm) and things... but i'm really not sure of the rest.

Does anyone have any links of Fujian Crane or anything? I was always under the impression it looked a little like Goju Ryu or Uechi Ryu? :)

thanks,
david

[HongKongPhooey]

The crane element is the crane wings that wing cun uses. The arm positioning in the forms resenble crane wings. The directness and accuracy is a tell tale sign of crane.

[dezhen2001]

as far as i know the only techniques based on animals are bong sau (wing arm) and possibly fuk sau (rest on hand). Most of the other hand positions are based on sound structure.

Does anyone have any links or pics to show me some fujian crane, as i've never really seen any of it. All i've seen is like i said Goju, Uechi Ryu and some Okinawan Crane style. Are they similar? :)

david

[Helicopter]

As far I can tell (and I ain't an expert) to me there is at least as much snake as there is crane in WC.

In the Hung Ga Kuen I do, there is a snake drill which is reminiscent of certain as aspects of WC.

The Snake posture is similar to the Bil Gee(:confused: ) ie shoulders rounded and forward facing, hands protecting the mid-line, one extended at throat level palm horizontal (unlike the bil gee) and the other at heart level and at the point of the elbow of the other hand. The stance is an open fight stance/box stance.

Attacks and blocks are very short and snappy and continuous, though there are coiling locks and holds.

Jpcm

[Helicopter]

I think the main thing is that WC follows the principles of shaolin snake and crane in the way it attacks and defends. Wing Chun expresses the Shen (mind/intension) of the animal (at least as I understand it.)

Jpcm

[HongKongPhooey]

look at how a crane makes it's wings and supplant that to a human arm. Elbow down and a V shapped, going up to the wrist, that is also bent down. How many moves in wing chun use this sturcture?

[dezhen2001]

that's cool. i guess in any style there are similarities if you look at them: 2 arms, 2 legs and a head right? :) Also i don't know much about hung gar and things, but from what i have done playing with other stylists WC has it's own character. Maybe it would be interesting to ask this on the WC forum, as there are many more experienced people than me there (i have only 2 years) :)

david

[Leimeng]

Why would you want to limit yourself to Southern styles? I mean, Hung Gar is a good system and all, but, if you really want good martial skill that will be with you for the long term and that you can always get something out of, try to find a good teacher of Bagua Zhang or Xing Yi Quan. Both of these arts by themselves, IF you learn correctly, and IF you practice diligently, will easly cut down the majority of WC, CLF, HG, WC, etc.. type of arts almost at will. You might have to spend a few months correcting your body mechanics, but it will be well worth it. If you cant find a good internal artist to study with, then I would reccomend something like dragon or hung gar.
I hope that adds some fuel to a potential fire and gives something to you to think about.

Peace,

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue

[JMagnano]

Bruce Lee studied some Sourthern Mantis I believe after taking Wing Chun. You could try southern Mantis. Or try Bruce's Jeet Kune Do.

[Tao-Yin-Lee]

What something 'looks like' depends on what the viewer 'sees' what he or she projects into the object in other words. Which is more 'Crane' - like, Fukien White Crane or Tibetan White Crane, which more Mantis like, Chow-Gar or Norther 7-Star?

To answer the Snake and Crane question re WC it would be necessary to know for certain its (WC's) history - and - the 'attributions' ascribed to certain 'human' movements by the founders or developers of the system - thereafter termed 'snake' or 'crane' in appearance.

All of the so called 'animal styles' are human, performed by human beings who animate their practice by making attributions to human structure and dynamics.

Maybe someone has specific information re the origin of WC - about its relationship to a previous named system or systems that utilised the appelations 'Snake' and/or 'Crane' ?

Tao.

[TaoBoy]

Fa-Jing,

You say that you are looking for a style to assist in your study of WC. What aspects of the martial arts do you want to focus on? This will help you decide which art to investigate outside WC.

Does it have to be a Chinese art? Does it have to be Southern?
Or have you just mentioned these due to the same root?

Heaps of choices:
- BJJ
- JKD
- SPM
- CLF
- HG

So many acronyms. :)

[tnwingtsun]

Go see Mike Adams before you get change from Yip's training,he's
good and he's in your area.

Let me know how it goes.




http://www.dynamicwingtsun.com/