Martial Artist vs. Martial Craftsmen

[Fu-Pow]

I've always hated the word artist. Whether it applies to music, paintings or martial "arts." For example, anyone that records an album instantly becomes a recording "artist." Now, come on, is Britney Spears really an artist.

It also seems that when people start referring to themselves as "artists" that whatever they're doing starts to suck and they're attitude starts to suck.

This is why I prefer the word craftsman. When we learn something like martial "arts" we are learning a craft. We painstakingly learn the movements from our teacher. Only through a lifetime of careful practice and honing of skill are you allowed to get "creative" and add your own moves or flavor to the "style."

Any thoughts on this? Anyone know the origin of the term "martial artist?"

[mantis108]

Well, I think you said yourself that you "prefer" to learn a craft.

Simply put arts imply originality; whereas, craft is imitate to prefection (or rather near perfection). There's a lot of the singers/artists prefer to sing their own songs written by and for themselves. But for financial purposes, they would have to sing other people's song to make a living in the beginning.

I guess I would rather "live to art; not craft to live." It's a question of living or surviving.

Crafting in CMA is in fact most encouraged by a lot of "masters". The upside is you can keep the lineage relatively pure and the memories of the "masters" alive. However, the downside is you will creat a lot of "living deads" thus the demise of your lineage. Even worst, is the reinventing of the wheel. So, I am not sure if craftsman is really better than artist in the martial world. BTW, isn't craftman a martial sports terminology?

Just a few thoughts :)

Mantis108

[No_Know]

"This is why I prefer the word craftsman. When we learn something like martial "arts" we are learning a craft. We painstakingly learn the movements from our teacher. Only through a lifetime of careful practice and honing of skill are you allowed to get "creative" and add your own moves or flavor to the "style." "

...or add flavor to the style. That might seem to make that craftsperson an artist.

Only craftspeople can be artists.

Brit. Spears Is an artist. Can Fu-Pow sing the songs Brit. Spears sings as well as Brit. Spears? Can Fu-Pow move with as much stamina And coordination as Brit. Spears and be as appealing to the eye? Can Fu-Pow sing on key at as high a percentage as she does? Does Fu-Pow cover her Range of singing? She puts together several factors with a quality that counts her as being an artist, seemingly.

[ewallace]

Now, come on, is Britney Spears really an artist.
To answer that question....Yes she is. Is she a good one? I really am not sure because everytime I watch her videos, there is this weird "Mute" sign in the bottom right corner of the T.V. screen.

I can see your point but I just don't put much thought or value into names and titles. Some may think of themselves as being a martial warrior or a martial athlete. It is just a vague name that covers what we generally do. Kind of like kung fu or karate doesn't specify the exact style that one does.

I would think that if you told an uninitiated person that you were a "martial craftsman" they would probably wonder what the hell you were talking about. I guess just use the term "martial craftsman" when around other "martial craftsmen". For the others you can just say that you study an ancient chinese art of whoop ass. :)

[Leto]

'Art' can also be about expressing yourself. Dancing is also considered an 'art', though, like martial arts, there is a specific way to do it which dancers must perfect. Though a singer may sing different songs, there are only certain ways to sing that make a person a good singer. There are many styles of martial arts with which you might express yourself, and many ways to use them, but the basic skills and forms must be perfected in order to perfect your self expression. Because it is your own body, mind, and spirit, even if you use the same forms as everyone else, there will be a 'style' which is your own. The more you practice, the more your personal style will be able to emerge...just as a singer must practice to better express him or herself in song.
Martial arts are 'arts' because they are an expression of the Self. The very practice of them is an expression of our determination and will to refine and perfect ourselves, integrating aspects of the Self in harmony.

[Chang Style Novice]

One of my favorite hobbyhorses rides again!

The main thing that distinguishes martial arts from fine arts, in my view, is the goal of the artist.

A fine artist, be they painter (like me!), musician, dramatist, poet, novelist, filmmaker, or whatever has as his or her most important goal a sublime level of communication. The artist wishes to impart and share emotions and ideas original to him or herself, and express them in a way that makes those emotions or ideas as clear and potent as possible to the audience. Fighting skills may be developed in the course of these acts of creation, but they are tangential.

A martial artist, however, has as his or her post important goal raising the ability to fight to it's greatest potential (at least in the most definitional sense of 'martial artist.) Originality, emotions, and ideas may occur during this pursuit, but they are side effects rather than primary effects.

Basically, the word 'artist' is being used in two different senses here, and it's confusing the issue. That said, the mental, physical and emotional discipline common to both pursuits means that a great many people attracted to martial arts will also be attracted to fine arts.

Huang Kai Vun has posted some interesting observations about this in various places.

[HuangKaiVun]

I don't care in the least what it's "artist" or "craft" or even "BS".

As long as I'm WORKING ON MY SKILLS, that's what's important.

[BAI HE]

An artist implies a talent expressed.
I have no talent.

A craftsman implies recognizing the blueprints, visualizing the
structure and adapting according to the tools at hand.
I have no vision or tools.

Unfortunately, I am not being humble, just rather truthful.
Do to alot of personal introspection lately I've realized that
I am not a lot of things I fancy myself to be in numerous areas
of my life.
I've been sifting through all the garbage and finding that
a mind that was once a fertile garden is now an old prison.
I'm certainly becoming more honest with myself though and that's a start.

Good post Fu-Pow.
Sorry I couldn't add more.

[NorthernMantis]

Yes she might be a good singing artist but not a martial artist.

[kungfu cowboy]

"Hello there. I study the deadly martial crafts."----I don't think it would ever catch on.

[joedoe]

Am I the only one who feels that there is a huge overlap between the terms art and craft anyway? There is a lot of art in craft, and a lot of craft in art.

[Unstoppable]

But F-Pow what Are you "Crafting?"? A Work of "MARTIAL ART"!! It Looks as the Two end Up at the Same Place!

Steven:D

[Serpent]

I thought you were leaving...

[guohuen]

I've never cared for the term "martial arts" either. Martial techniques and martial training seems more appropriate to me. I liken it to being a craftsman. A cabinet or furniture maker is a craftsman that can also be an artist if they carve a flowering vine down the leg of a piece. That's OK for asthetic value but does not add to the strength or funtionality of the item. I do not add flowery movements to the martial techniques I use.